Is a DV Deck a good investment?
 

I've been using a cheap Sony TRV-33 to capture my DV and DVCAM recordings from my PD-170 and VX2100's. From time to time I get a dropout or two. I've heard a possible cause is capturing it in a camera that didn't originally record it- the reason being a possible tracking error beings the tape transport varies from camera to camera.

I've heard DV Decks (like the DSR-11 for example) are less prone to this and are quite lenient in regards to tape tracking, etc. The DSR-11, however, is quite an investment at $1,600.

What are the benefits of using a DV Deck over my current set-up of using a cheap DV camera to "act" as a deck. How rugged really are the heads and the tape transport on a DV Deck compared to a DV Camera? ...Is it worth the investment?

if your concern is drop out, the best would be to suppress the root cause (tape).
for 800$ you can get a box that record DV to harddisk.
no tape problem and no tape to disk transfer (while you can still record on tape just in case).
That is what i have done , not because drop problems, but because a sell my old vx9000 (big DV tape, up to 4 hours of recording) and i need something to record at least 2 hours non-stop with my vx2000.

If you have some money, a DV Deck is an excellent investment. The heads in a camera are not designed to be used for extensive playback. A deck IS designed for that, so yes, the heads and transport are much more rugged than those on a camera.

For what it's worth, I know a guy who went on a Log-and-Capture binge with about 40 tapes from a doc shoot using not but a cheap Canon. Around tape #30, smoke began to come out of the camera.

Which mini-DV deck?
 

Hi,
I do regulary edit our church's sermon and chorus with 2 XM2's(equivalent to GL2).
I am looking for a mini-DV deck for this purpose with Premiere Pro1.5 which is very very easy to use.
Any suggestions?
Or I do not need it? - I am worrying about shortening the camera's head life as well as tape mechanism.

Thanks in Advance!

Paul Juhn

Well, you'll find DV decks are pretty expensive. If you can pay off DV deck with your work - go for it. In other case cheap DV camera will be very good for transfer to computer. I am using that solution without any problems. It's still cheaper than new heads on my XM2.

Mini & SVHS deck
 

http://www.streetprices.com/Electronics/Consumer/VCR/Multi_System/SP828882.html

XM2? Assuming that you are in the UK? Check this out this I think is the 3rd gen of this deck. JVC make this deck is really good, I have used the last 2 generations. They where good. Preview and download from DV and output to SVHS or VHS. Its prefect and its much cheaper than any offering from the other companies.

Actually I am in Australia...
As darko suggested, cheap MiniDv camera can be a solution but would there be a video quality loss or not?
Since it is all digital, there should not be any quality loss... I maybe wrong..
Thanks anyway... good advice !

Paul J.

hmmm... cameras are ok to use, but from my expereince with people doin ghtis, usually the heads die out pretty quickly when compared to a dedicated unit.

The sony GD-V1000 is a nice lil unit with a 4' LCD screen which also doubles as a small reference monitor. Its a portable device and does what it says it does quite well. You'll notice that the heads on these units are a lil more robust than a cheap handycam..

at the moment the price of these re about $2700 AUD (im a supplier and thats a discounted rate.. ) they usually go for $3100 AUD RRP as its a consumer unit...

heres a link to some info from a NZ site
http://www.dvt.co.nz/index.php/ps_pagename/productdetail/pi_productid/464

lil
 

What's lil? Please educate me...

What about JVC SR-VS30E - the quoted price is Au$2134.00

I do not need VHS conversion though.

Is Sony GD-V1000 is robust? I mean the tape mechanism and head?
Can I buy it from you?

Thanks!

Paul

Re: lil
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Juhn : What's lil? Please educate me... -->>>

I think he means "little"

There is no loss of quality when transferring from "el cheapo" at all. I also transferred some DVCAM recordings from Sony DSR370 without any problem or degradation in quality. It's either 0 or 1 and that's nice thing about digital video :-)

Post editing
 

Do you use Premiere pro 1.5? I do.
I usually capture whole tape to computer and make many short clips.
In this way, I do not use much Camera while editing except exporting the final product to tape.
Is this the righjt way to do it?

What's the benefit having a deck other than saving Camera head?

Depending on the deck and in addition to more robust heads, there is a stronger faster transport mechanism, more accurate for digital cuts, time code controll, dv/analog transcoding/pal/secam conversion, capacity for larger tapes (The DSR 11 for instance allows you to use the larger DVCAM tapes and format.... and other goodies.

the dsr 11 is a nice lil (oops little) unit i have to agree.. i jsut feel that the decks themselves are overpriced..

Paul, send me an email with ur fone number and ill give u call when i get it..

i mwaiting on sony to deliver the bugger, theyre being very slack with their gear lately and im not happy..

i have a sony gv-d900, and based on my experiences, i would not recommend it to anybody... it's a pile of junk.

the buttons don't work like they should most of the time, and the tape often has to be re-inserted multiple times because of some bastard error message... sometimes i'll end up having to literally unplug the power supply from the wall before the deck will accept a tape.

and you can't fully turn off the power to the deck... if it's plugged in to the power supply, it's live, even with the power switch turned off, hence the need to unplug the power supply to get a cold boot of the deck.

it has also required multiple head cleanings, despite having less hours on it than my xl-1s does... fortunately i'm a tech, so i know how to clean vcr heads.

you can buy several el cheapo dv cameras for the cost of this deck, and if you get an extended warranty, you'll be able to get 'em repaired for nothing.

Thanks Dan
 

I was considering having this unit but your confession told me not to....

Thanks!

The Panasonic decks look great on paper compared to the Sony DSR11.
lower price
adds 7.5IRE setup
headphone jack
audio meters (nice to have for dubbing tapes)
reads and records DVCPRO, reads DVCAM (doesn't write DVCAM unfortunately)

I can't say I have experience with this deck but it seems like a better choice than the DSR11. I have used a JVC SVHS/mini-DV (the cheapest real deck on the market) but I would avoid them.

If you don't really need a full blown deck, I'd probably try to pick up a used/cheap camcorder. Ebay and camera stores would be places to try if you are comfortable with that (be careful on eBay). If you manage to wear out the heads on a cheap camcorder then you know you may need a deck.

i use an old camcorder but ideally i woudl like a deck with a screen to use to show edits to clients without having the need to author a dvd.
Unfortunetaly budget is whats holding me back and i really dont need it when the MX500 im using has a 3 and half inch screen, while teh GDV1000 has a 4' screen, which really isnt all that much of a difference.. and ive got a camera to boot... ;)

Using trv30 for deck?
 

Workflow question--can I use my sony TRV30 as a deck--so I don't have to use the FX1 for this purpose? I'd use the TRV30 to capture, rewind, fast forward and print to tape--

Is the TRV30 mpeg2-ts (HDV) compatible? Rewinding and fastforwarding is fine, but you won't be able to play or record HDV footage on a non-HDV device.

heath

I'm not sure I understand--I would want to shoot with the FX1--then take the miniDV tape out of the camera and put it into my regular miniDV (standard def), and then firewire xfer into my pc. After editing in an HDV compatible NLE, output then to another miniDV tape to my standard def miniDV camera. Then, take the miniDV tape out of the my camera and put into the FX1 for playback on a hi-def monitor/tv.

Basically--is there any way around using the FX1 camera as a deck--so I don't have to use the heads too much?

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Is the TRV30 mpeg2-ts (HDV) compatible? Rewinding and fastforwarding is fine, but you won't be able to play or record HDV footage on a non-HDV device.

heath -->>>

You can't do that with a mini-dv camera. It will play green or red video with no audio, because it can't decode the HDV signal. On the JVC HD10, you can flip the iLink (FireWire) output between DV and mpeg2-TS (HDV).

Therefore, you need to use the FX1 to transfer HDV from tape to PC. You'll also need special software to capture the HDV software, such as Aspect HD.

So, you need special HDV software and your HDV camera to get your HDV footage into your computer.

Hope this helps,

heath

Right -- just because the tape is the same, doesn't mean that the data's the same.

If you want to shoot standard-def miniDV on your FX1, then you could do what you describe.

But if you want to shoot in HDV mode, you must have an HDV device (deck or camera) to play the footage back. A miniDV camera will choke on an HDV tape, unable to play anything back.

I thought that might be the case--just wanted to verify it. You'd think a "consumer" level deck would sell well--but I haven't come across any, even for SD miniDV (at least inexpensive ones). Perhaps I'm over-reacting to those who say that using your camera as a deck can cut the camera's life in half--

Thanks for the quick responses--

If you shoot in HDV or SD, you will NOT be able to play it, only DV.

heath

deck ?
 

Should I be using a deck (aren't they expensive?) or just a cheap miniDV camera for loading my footage into my computer? Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001B86G8/ref%3Dnosim/slickdeals/104-0636460-2706315 or should I buy a Canon brand. I'd also use it as a secondary camera. Is there a Canon one that is good and cheap?

Unless you plan to rewind, fast forward and play a tape repeatedly or you shoot a ton of video, I'd be very surprised if you'd ever be able to detect any increased wear on your camcorder. I would venture a guess that you'll outgrow the cam and upgrade for new technology or features long before you wear out the tape transport.

Good luck.

Dennis Vogel

Thanks for the reply. You're probably right with all the technology coming down the pipe.

I too have been considering Sony's Mini-DV Walkman as a deck. Particularly the GV-D300. I got some questions though.
I am currently using a Canon XL1s and will be getting the XL2 in a couple days. I have a Mac G5, 2.5 ghz with Final Cut Pro HD and I also have a PC with Premiere 6.5. I don't use Premiere much for editing but I like to have it available just in case. Right now I use exclusively Mini-DV.

These are the things I would like to do:

- Create Window burn VHS tapes from the deck to my VCR with the timecode and tape information displayed on the VHS.

- Stripe/black tapes

- Capture footage from the deck to both of my editing systems, not at the same time of course.

- Make tape dubs with my camera and the deck...hopefully I can do that and make the timecodes excately the same.

- Record onto the mini-dv format from an outside source, like VCR, cable signal, computer monitor output. (I have the necessary equipment to do that I just want to make sure the DV deck can receive an input signal and record it.)

Do any of y'all know if it is possible to do this with the Sony GV-D300 deck? Or could you recommend a comparable deck that can handle all these tasks? My budget is around $800. Of course, the less I spend the better.

Thanks!

deck
 

the GVD is good, and if you want to travel with it, it is great. If you don't need a portable deck, you can get another deck that is less expensive. I sold my GVD and got a JVC-SR-VS30. It is a combination MiniDV and SVHS deck for about $600. Look around for prices on the internet.

No Audio on miniDV's dubbed on DVC deck - help!
 

Audio guy here, making headway in video, although occasionally i feel like a serious chump.

Your help is appreciated.

2 years ago I shot some great footage with an older, cheaper JVC miniDV camera.
Imported it into FCP3, edited it, and then exported it to a miniDV tape using a DVC deck at school. I know it was working great, because I then recorded straight from the deck to VHS, and it came out great.

I now have a GL2 camera, which I love (at least when the light is good), and wanted to reimport it to do some audio cleanup... only - no audio. Additionally, the tape seems to play at about 95% speed - everything is slightly slower than normal.

Is this because I edited on a DVC deck? What's the deal here?

Thanks - Scot

What is a DVC deck? Do you mean JVC? If so, that should make no difference at all assuming both the deck and your camera are mechanically in alignment.

Any chance you recorded to the #3 & 4 audio channels instead of #1 & 2?

dvcam/dvcpro/miniDV
 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=249562&is=REG&si=feat#goto_itemInfo

DVCAM / DVCPRO is what I mean.

The machine I was using, like the one linked, was able to play and record both miniDV and DVCAM/DVCPRO.

Just for clarification, DVCam and DVCPro and different formats and seldom found in a recorder on the same deck.

Now then, it is possible like the last person mentioned, you may have recorded the audio to CHs 3&4 rather than 1&2. You will have to find a deck with 4 channels to check that out.

Also note there are some real issues with some applications being able to pull audio from Ch3&4 in DV format. Premiere has some issues with this especially with certain cameras. You can sort of cheat the system if you use analog outputs rather than the firewire. Take the analog output for video and Channels 3&4 and run them into a DV Camera, deck or Canopus ADVC100 (or similar) that can convert analog to DV Firewire. Feed that into your editing computer. Watch for analog audio delays. Should work.

Easiest (in a way) solution is to get the same deck type you used originally. What format is the tape? Should be written right on it.

Is it DVCPro or DVCam?

For DVCPro, look for a Panasonic deck. For DVCam, look for a Sony deck. I'll try to help more if I can.

Sean McHenry

thanks sean
 

Thanks Sean for your response.

Tape: basic SONY miniDV tape, 60min
Camera: ultra cheap JVC miniDV camcorder (low end 2001)
Imported into FCP 3/G4
Exported to basic SONY miniDV tape
Using deck supporting miniDV play/record; DVCAM play/record and DVCPRO playback only.

I *thought* that I was just recording in miniDV format, but I may have switched formats accidentally. Like I said, this was a while back, before I really understood much about video.

RE: Audio channels 3/4
Sounds possible, but it doesn't explain the slightly slow playback. I'd guess it looks like it's playing at about 90-95% speed. What would explain that?

THANK YOU GUYS.

Now then, Sony has two formats on their DV decks. There is DV, like everyone else has, and then there is DVCam. In DVCam, the tape speed is about 1/3 faster than DV. If you recorded the tape as DVCam (you can accidentally do this) and play it back in a DV only deck, you may well experience this. Try to find another Sony deck like the DSR-11 or DSR-25. It handles both formats and will automatically adjust to the correct type on playback.

Both formats use the same tape shell. That's how the mixup happens. DVCam tape is higher quality and combined with the faster tape speed, makes less dropouts and better video. Yor average DV tape of 60 minutes will last 40 in DVCam mode.

Other than that, could be plain old mechanical failure. Could be the capstans are running slow for some reason and the tape is actually playing slowly. I doubt that as there is error checking and the picture would be odd I would think, or not play at all. Normally one would get a "servo" error if this was happening.

Look for a buddy with a DVCam deck.

Sean

that's it
 

That's just gotta be it, following "the simplest explanation is usually the best" rule.

thanks man,
scot

DV Deck not playing tapes!
 

I use a Sony GVD-1000 miniDV deck. Recently I was capturing on Final Cut Pro, when I got to the end of one tape. I put the next in, and it appeared that there was nothing on the tape... just blue screen. It appears that it is not picking up the time code off the tape. It does, however, show how many minutes are left on the tape (63,62,61,...47,46...etc,) as I play and fast forward through the tape. I put the tape in my camcorder, and it played fine... tried another tape in the deck, same problem. Any ideas?

Thanks!

could be the tracking head is off

Cheap camera as a playback deck?
 

Can i use a cheaper 1 CCD camera as a playback deck to keep the wear and tear down on my gl2. will video recorded on the gl2 capture to the computer with the same quality if played with a single CCD Camera? Is there a cheaper (better) way?