Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi

A good showcase for the TM900 in the Youtube clip, lots of blue sky as well and can't see any sign of bondi-blue! I might post a link back to that from the forum that bondi-blue gets the most coverage on.

It's a shame YouTube drops the quality somewhat.

The slow motion tests prove how versatile 50p is. It was almost impossible to tell what was slow motion and what wasn't. The train clip didn't look slow motion at all, just passed slower in comparison to the original speed, otherwise the quality look identical.

Shutter speeds are a trade off, if you use faster shutter speeds you'd get clearer frames and so clearer slow motion, but with just 25 frames per second it might start to look juddery. A slow shutter speed around 1/50th gives a blur to fast movement and helps keep things moving more fluid to the viewer at 25fps, which is what they tend to do with film. You might be able get better results by capturing at a faster shutter speed, then applying small amounts of motion blur in Vegas should some slow motion shots look a bit juddery and have better control.

Regards

Phil

Panasonic TM900 - No "Bondi Blue"
 

Thanks Phil. Yeah, it is a shame it goes through the mangle a bit with YouTube's 1080p. When I get more time I'll do some proper filming with it around Ely, Cambridge etc. (on a tripod of course) and really show what the camera can do in a Vimeo clip etc. Less wobble will also improve codec efficiency and should "up image quality" too - even on YouTube. Raw files are stunning on my big monitors.

You're right. No "bondi blue". We can all now put that debate to bed with the 900 series, for good! Please post that link to that forum!

I fully understand the implications of shutter speed but the main reason I've been active on the getting to know the TM900 and on the 1080p50 editing front is that I've decided to use it for some slow motion shots (along with the EX3 etc.) on a dolly in some corporate work I've got going on this week. I'm wary of using any new kit until I've a good grasp of it's strengths and limitations but I think I am now at that stage with the TM900 - so it's finally time to put it to work!

Still thrilled that I've got it in my kit - and how little it cost (compared to some of the things I lug around!)

Also, I've been thinking about Alistair's question. Now I imagine that if the TM900 converts 1080p50 files at 28Mbps to "Standard" AVCHD in camera then, in the TM900s case that would be at it's 17Mbps 25p format (sadly the TM900 lacks the max 24Mbps option that the AVCHD consortium currently "allows" within the AVCHD format as of now - Can't be long before this is revised now Sony are also in the game of 1080p50). So I guess the question is, does this conversion just extract every other frame and leave it razor sharp - and hopefully 17Mbps is enough to maintain that sharpness - or does it do some kind of reprocessing. [Not tried it so don't know - just thinking out loud].

Re: Panasonic TM900 Hybrid Image Stabilisation/20x Zoom Test Video
 

I read your notes on YouTube page and you mentioned that all shots were in iAuto and yet you went -1 on sharpness and color. On 60p unit (NTSC), when you are in iAuto, dialing or increasing sharpness has no effect on anything, it only works when you are shooting in Manual mode. I just tried it on my unit and can verify this. I was in iAuto, tried -5, 0, and +5 in sharpness and saw no difference, but when I did the same in Manual mode the difference in sharpness was huge.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks Gregory - and welcome to DVinfo! That's something else that I've learnt today! Good job anything important I'm doing with it would only be in Manual mode!

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Andy, your video was most interesting for me since I have as yet shot everything exclusively in manual mode, apart from one time when the first thing that stopped me proceeding was that the white balance did it's own thing, and not to my liking. This did not appear to be the case with your video, did you use a 'Scene' mode which allows a fixed WB?

Next, you said you were going to test the 'intelligent Auto' and at first I thought I was seeing the result of this on some stonework near ground level of a strongly back lit building (lack of detail) but then I wondered if this was simply YouTube messing it up somewhat. For myself I decided not to use 'intelligent Auto' as I found it could bring up shady areas but somewhat artificially and the sky was still somewhat over exposed. Where you had the sun behind you or to one side you have nice truly blue sky, yes I also am so pleased not to find any "bondi blue" in my shots.

The hybrid image stabilisation I have found to be at it's best with a slight pan, I think your stationary shots made things too difficult for it, I can never get rid of slight tilt movements when tying to hold the camera completely still and so this is what I do, I make my stationary shots a very slight pan, or use the very lightweight tripod I have for my 5DII. Actually your attempts at this are better than most of mine!

Lastly, I did find the auto exposure shows, a lot of things such as white window frames, the white on the ducks, cannot recall them all right now, but several items I noted were over exposed.

What I find as a compromise between full auto and full manual is to switch to manual, set focus to auto, set up your manual white balance, (never have to move mine if I am always outdoors), and set shutter speed to 1/50th. (for 1080/50P). This leaves iris floating, will do it's own thing (auto exposure) but with the benefit of what you entered in the Picture Adjust (menu > Record setup > (page 8/9) > Exposure). For the record I now use -3 for this "exposure compensation" with the sunny weather we are currently enjoying here in England.

Of course 1/50th shutter and no external ND filter does mean for anything but end of day stuff when light has reduced this must be increased to avoid the iris stopping down to F8 or more and degrading the resolution so what I do is before shooting to quickly dab the Iris button on the screen then if it shows an undesirable F number I go back to shutter and increase speed, check iris again, repeat until happy.

The important thing is to always return to shutter after checking the iris number otherwise the iris will be fixed and not give you auto exposure so after this one final press again on the shutter will clear the screen for shooting, leaving you with the nice histogram to keep an eye on things if you want it.

Anyway that's the way I like to work and it does stop me over exposing since I find the exposure latitude a lot less than the EX1R so I know I do need to work a bit harder with the TM900 when the sun is out.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks Claire. Yep, you spotted the tendency to slight overexposure too - believe me it's not just YouTube mangling it - but the only way you find these things out is to actually try! No I did not use any scene mode - this test was really very simple but I knew my stationary shots would be a challenge on the image stabilisation system with such a lightweight camera!

I really like your idea of ultra slow panning for those times when I'm out and about without a tripod/wall/chair/child (not my two - never stationary!) to lean on. Great tip! Thanks also for all the other great info!

Re: Panasonic TM900 - No "Bondi Blue"
 

Hi

Well your clip has been seen by a few now and the question raised is the sky is too blue and did you use a polarizer? :-) No pleasing some people I suppose.

Regards

Phil

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

No polarizer, (as I can't find a B+W 46mm one anywhere in the UK - for a sensible price).

Camera straight out of the box! Some people just like to be critical of ALL new gear.... and others just get on and do stuff with it (and have fun!)

BTW, as a side note, I've just found a reputable camera supplier (that I've used several times before) who has the new larger batteries for the TM900 on their website, the Panasonic VW-VBN260E-K (for £89 plus £10 delivery). I have placed an order just now so should know soon if they have them in stock or what the likely delivery date will be. It's the same company that I bought my TM900 from (and indeed my Canon 7D and a few other things). They sell cameras and are in Bristol ;-)

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi

Cheers, I've updated them over at avsforums. I knew the blue sky would draw some questions as there has been a lot of chatter there regarding "bondi-blue" on the older models.

Regards

Phil

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi Phil,

I know there is a lot of concern out there over this Bondi-blue issue that affected some TM700 users, I can say with certainty the deep blue sky in Andy's TM900 film would not require a polarizer with the weather we enjoyed these last few days here in the UK.

We had high pressure over the country bringing us cold frosty nights and clear blue skies during the day, unusual for us being surrounded by ocean so we try and make the most of it, but I can assure you the sky colour in Andy's film is exactly what I have been seeing with my TM900 about 250 miles north of him.

With over exposure on this camera blue sky can become different to how it looks to the eyes, it usually turns white but not always, however with correct exposure the only time I have wondered about bondi blu is close to sunset when a very narrow strip right next to the horizon looks a touch green, however I realise it's my paranoia when looking over the camera that is how it appears to my eyes, ie: it's there in reality, not introduced by the camera.

Edit: Sorry Phil, Just realised you are in London so I don't need tell you we had blue sky recently !

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

In Sony Vegas, no need to set undersampling to .5, leave at 1 and just select disable resample in clip properties.

Panasonic TM900 - Aunsoft for Mac
 

Thanks Ian. Anyone tried this conversion software on a Mac? Its $29 ...and comes with "warm afterservice" (!)... Any good?

Aunsoft Introduces Panasonic HDC-TM900 AVCHD Video Converter on Mac

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks Andy,

I have not been able (till now) to download 1080 50p clips from my TM900 into my iMac unless I convert them to AVCHD in the camera first.

I have just tried the new Aunsoft MTS/M2TS Converter for the TM900 etc and for the first time I have been able to download 1080 50p clips without prior conversion. I could not do it with the Aunsoft vidoconverter.

I cannot answer your question as to whether it is any good but at least and at last I have something to work with.

If it is of interest I have found that I can download clips (1080 50p and HA1920) from the TM900 into a Nexto 2500. Furthermore I can play the clips back on the Nexto screen and now with the Aunsoft I can download from the Nexto to my iMac.

Many thanks, greatly appreciated.

Panasonic TM900 - More Footage
 

More early TM900 footage (not mine this time I stress). Filmed in the Italian Dolomites (Cortina).

If anyone has any doubts about how good the TM900s 1080p50 codec/how sharp the lens is etc. then they should simply watch all of this in 1080p. :-)

Look at the detail of all the tiny figures in the closing shots. There are a few times where there is a slight greenish tint to the sky but other times when I see colours exactly as I'd expect from my own use of the TM900 in sunny conditions. It simply might have been that colour in those distant hazy horizons or simply an incorrect white balance setting, I guess we'll never know - but no matter.

YouTube - Dolomites, Italy 2011 - Panasonic HDC-TM900 Full HD Test

Panasonic TM900 - Raw 1080p50 .mts Clips Available
 

I've just put a couple of short (30MB and 36MB) raw clips (.mts) onto Vimeo.

Have enabled downloading if anyone wants to test anything out.

NOTE: I'm not a Vimeo Plus user so I think they will only be available in the original format for about a week.

If you download these clips please consider giving a donation to the people in Japan at this difficult time as soon as your country has systems in place to do this.

Panasonic TM900 - Extreme Low Light and Gain Test Clip
 

Notes on the Vimeo page and in my rough and ready narrative - it's just finished converting but the HD version does not seem to be available just yet even on Vimeo site - hopefully it will be soon. Anyway, the raw 1080p50 .mts (Note 59 seconds, and 174MB) should be available to download for 1 week.

Remember the Japan request - those clever people brought you things like the TM900.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Andy,

I use a nanoFlash with my XLH1 so 25p only. I guess cutting in 50p footage off a TM900, assuming my FCP/iMac set up up to it, would be problematical.

I am talking about TM900 footage off the camera and not via a nanoFlash. Can the TM900 be set to record/output 25p?

I know the TM900 can be used with a nano but sometimes it would be too "fiddly" to swap nano from cam to cam in the field.

Ron

Panasonic TM900 - Extreme Low Light Test Video
 

OK, well it seems Vimeo's encoders assumed my TM900 Extreme Low Light Test video clip was not worth encoding to their version of 720p so I put it up on YouTube this morning and it's now available in 1080p (albeit after it's been through YouTubes encoding engine - but hey at least you can see it in 1080p on the web now), link below. Note that the original footage looks a lot cleaner/nicer - and that's an understatement:

YouTube - Panasonic TM900 Extreme Low Light Test (1080p50)

Remember, you can still download the original 1080p50 clip (from Vimeo) until the end of next week and decide for yourself what it looks like.

Ronald, the TM900 has a setting to record in 1920x1080p25 at 17Mbps in a fully compliant AVCHD codec. Full specs are in the Panasonic Global link I posted at the very start of this thread. I've not really started using my Mac Pro/FCP for TM900 footage yet so will let others comment more about that.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks Andy. I'll be interested in reading of your experiences with FCP etc and 50p footage. Seems the cam will record/output 25p okay. I wonder whether possible to record 50p and "down res" to 25p in post, and if so, whether worthwhile given the 25p capabilities "in camera".

Not even sure whether my monitor will handle a 50p signal, my telly certainly won't as it's only "HD ready", so more expense.


Ron

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi Ron. Maybe try downloading one of my short 1080p50 sample clips from Vimeo (see in thread above a few posts back) and trying it on your Mac and monitor somehow?

I find my 2-3 year old Dell 24-inch 2408 UltraSharps (1920x1080p) handle it no problem at all (playing off a RAID 0 in a 2010 Windows 7, 64-Bit Intel i7 Box) and I typically use the VLC Player on this PC. Yet to try the Mac Pro so can't really help with that yet.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I just stumbled upon something interesting with this. I was was authoring a multicam live music performance in DVDArchitect (Blue Ray Disc), and noticed that when previewing the disc ("Best" quality setting) the footage from the 2 canon 30p cameras looked fine, while the tm700 60p shots had interlacing artifacts (viewed on the computer screen). I'm not sure if the "Best" setting simulates an interlaced display or what, but the other quality modes did not show the artifacts. Going back into vegas, i noticed that the tm700 clips had resample disabled, but no undersampling. When I switched to undersample .5 (30fps) and re-rendered, the artifacts in DVDA disc preview disappeared. So this tells me there is a difference between the two. Disable resample keeps the two frames from blending when rendering to a progressive format, but when rendering to an interlaced format, it doesn't keep vegas from pulling half the fields from every frame. If want to render out 30p in a 60i container, then you need to undersample so vegas only has 30 frames per second to pull from and therefore will pull the two fields from the same progressive frame.

Panasonic TM900 and Steadicam Merlin - Test Video
 

Had a spare couple of hours today to try my Panasonic TM900 out on my Steadicam Merlin - using some settings I quickly derived last night (indoors). It's a lovely Spring day here in England with very low wind (3-5 MPH according to the BBC Weather website) so I though, go for it! However, even that light breeze was enough to make this ultralight set-up difficult to manage!

Next test I'll be using more weights as I think it needs a lot more self inertia - it was impossible to walk with it smoothly (something I can do very well now with my Canon 7D on the Merlin). See all the notes on the YouTube Video Info page and at the end of the video for full details of the TM900 and Merlin settings I tried in this first, very quick Steadicam test.

YouTube - Steadicam Merlin & Panasonic TM900 (1st Test)

By the way I screwed up a few things on the the opening shot - which is why it's got the title all over it!

Panasonic TM900 - Large Battery
 

Just had this e-mail from the shop that's supplying me here in the UK with one of the new type large batteries for the TM900.

"Apologies for the delay, we have had confirmation that the item you ordered is arriving with us on Monday and will be dispatched shortly after"

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I have also been enjoying the TM900, and have gone beyond "testing" to use in the field.

Here are two examples, both downloadable, both using 108060p, fixed 1/60th shutter, manual audio, and no transcoding:

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Here is one more downloadable video. This uses a lot of zooming and panning, as is relevant for action sports. Also, Intelligent zoom is used at times, so that some shots are 700mm (equivalent). Harsh light conditions, -1 exposure and ND filter, 1/60th shutter, 108060p.

Panasonic TM900 - Big Battery
 

My big battery has just arrived from the Bristol area camera shop that I bought it from (£89 plus £10 next day postage here in the UK). Big is a relative term as, like the camera, it's still tiny!

It is a genuine Panasonic VW-VBN260E-K, made in China. Some quick pictures of it on the little baby below showing the viewfinder in both positions.

Need to fully charge it now before first use and then we'll get an idea of just how long it'll keep the TM900 going (although I have to say I've been pretty impressed so far with the TM900's longevity even with the little supplied battery). As with the smaller battery it is a very slightly loose fit (and I mean very - I'm being picky here) rather than a snug tight fit that I would prefer but I guess that's just the way they designed them. It looks like its drooping slightly in my picture - but that's just the wide angle effect on the old Sony P100 that I took these quick close up snaps on. By the way, the zebra pattern marks you can see, e.g. on the little batteries shiny plastic part, are simply the reflection from my oak table!!!

Use of the viewfinder is still going to be OK (certainly no worse than normal for anyone like me who wears glasses!)

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi Andy

Thanks for the update, should run and run on that battery.

Are Panasonic doing the separate chargers yet? The only snag with a bigger battery is it ties up the camcorder longer charging.

Regards

Phil

Panasonic TM900 Battery Charger
 

Hi Phil,

Not seen any for sale yet here in the UK despite a bit of Googling recently. I gather its going to be expensive so I may just get yet another big battery (if I feel I need it once I've seen just how long this one lasts).

Typically, I'm able to plan ahead and get kit ready to go/all batteries fully charged up before my booked corporate shoots (remember, this TM900 is really only a B/C cam to my main gear anyway)....although I must say I seem to be getting busier and busier so my desire to get a Panasonic battery charger might change soon, regardless of cost, especially now I'm seeing what lovely images this thing captures! I should be able to easily charge up both these batteries during the evening (and if needs be overnight) on the cam for days when I have back to back shooting. In many situations I'll be able to use mains power too so, I think on balance, I'd say that right now I'm in no big hurry to get the charger.

Let us know if you find a UK supplier soon though.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

1. Both the regular-size and big battery became available in the US today.

2. I don't see why one should get the big battery: it is twice as big, twice as heavy, takes twice as long to charge and lasts twice as long as two regular batteries. And, in the US, it costs twice as much. There is no efficiency or economic gain.

Given how clumsy and ungainly the big battery is on the camera, I don't see why two regular-size batteries are not the better choice? You get just as much total power, and I do not see the need for shooting one take that lasts longer than what one regular-size battery can supply (1.5 hours in 60/50p mode).

What am I missing?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

In USA the "big" battery does not cost twice as much as "small" one.
It's available for $139.95 here:

PANASONIC VW-VBN 260 BAT

So, it is less expansive than having two VW-VBN130

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

That's a very helpful find. But without a price for the vbn130 at this vendor, we don't know that it is not twice as much as the 130, do we?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

The same vendor has "smaller" battery for $79.95 (but it is "on order").

Here is the link:

PANASONIC VW-VBN 130 BAT

Now, if you do the math you will discover that "bigger" battery is about $20 less expensive than buying 2 "smaller" ones.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Good (when I went on the site there was no page for the VBN130 yet). Now all one has to do is consider whether carrying on the camera one humungous battery is more efficient that carrying a smaller battery on the camera, making it lighter and easier to handle, and one in the pocket (see the pictures above).

I think I will go for the smaller option; it's worth the $20 to me to have more flexibility and agility.

The Panasonic TM900 in dim and bright light
 

This video displays the prowess of the TM900 in low light and very bright light. Use in low light - subterranean NYC (subway, tunnels beneath Grand Central, Grand Central Terminal itself, which is very dim). Fixed shutter 1/60th, manual audio, awb, manual video (iris and shutter) except below ground. Manual exposure was necessary in bright light to avoid overexposure.

Earth movers, flowers, camermen, Chinese violin, condiments, trains.


The low light parts are noiseless with good color. Original can be downloaded.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Well, if anyone had any doubts what these little cameras can do they certainly won't now...impressive results indeed.

Panasonic TM900 & Steadicam Merlin - Best Settings (So Far)
 

I took a break from all the corporate editing that I've been doing to work out some better settings for the Panasonic TM900 on my Steadicam Merlin.

One of my video tests is linked below (and see the notes on the YouTube page for more info/other relevant Steadicam tests I've been doing). Steadicam Merlin settings are at the end of the video along with a couple of quick snaps of the rig - on a bike stand!

YouTube - Panasonic TM900 & Steadicam Merlin (1080p50 2nd Test)

The key this time was using a Manfrotto MN577 Quick Release Plate directly under the TM900 to give it more weight. Mind you, it's still pretty light - you could use it for hours, unlike when I fly my Canon 7D and a wide angle! However, it is still a little lacking in the self inertia/smoothness that I get with the 7D but I think (with practice) I will definitely get a lot better results than this quick test shows.

As soon as we get another spell of good weather I'll be out and about practising with this new set-up in a much more interesting envionment than my back garden!

Panasonic TM900 - External Microphone (Rode VM Pro or Nikon ME-1?)
 

As I've mentioned before, the mics on the TM900 are very susceptible to any wind when shooting outside - even just a light breeze renders the audio pretty useless. I've been considering getting a new Rode Videomic Pro (I have the original VM and the SVM but these would totally dwarf such a tiny camcorder in weight - especially the SVM - and size). I fully understand that any mic on a camera is almost always in the least perfect place to get good audio but sometimes I'm out and about and just need the best I can get with run-n-gun.

Well, the new Nikon (stereo) mic ME-1 has just surfaced and that looks like it's even smaller than the Rode Videomic Pro so could be a good candidate. It's said to be about £120 and will be available from 21st April.

It seems to have a over-long lead (not sure why they did this as the new Nikon camera it was announced with does not require such a length!) so I guess I'd have to put a loop in the cable. There are lots of pictures of this mic and that new Nikon camera on engadget and some information in this link on DVinfo.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...ml#post1635486

Just posting this as it LOOKs like a good little mic for small cams like the TM900. Of course, we've yet to HEAR it.

UPDATE: Just learnt on another website that the ME-1 apparently draws its power from the D5100's battery via the stereo plug/lead. I have no idea if any power can be supplied via the TM900's mic jack.
UPDATE 2: I just checked in the TM900's handbook and all I can see is this on page 163 where it mentions the Mic Input, " -70dBV (Mic sensitivity -50dB equivalent, 0dB=1 V/Pa, 1 kHz)". On page 13 it states, "A compatible plug-in powered microphone can be used as an external microphone".

I guess it'll have to be the Rode VMP then.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi, Andy....I'm curious to know what you use for video editing software? I'm no pro but the only app I've paid for is Corel Video Studio X2 and X3. I've tried (trial versions) all of these: Magix (both consumer and pro X3), Pinnacle Studio, Avid Studio, CyberDirector 9 Adobe Premier and several others. All have problems of one sort or another.

So what does a pro like you use?

TIA,
Walt

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi Walt and welcome to DVInfo.

Its mostly in my signature but basically I use 2 platforms and 3 computers...there are some shots of me in my studio on my showreel for the ultra curious!

(1) Vegas 9E on a 2010 Dell Studio XPS box - Windows 7 64 Bit Intel i7 2.8Ghz with 8GB RAM, 2TB RAID 0 internal drives and numerous external hard drives.

(2) FCS2 on a mid-2008 Mac Book Pro - 2.5Ghz 4GB RAM 15inch Matt screen version - with the all important Expresscard 34 slot for SxS, KxS and expansion (dirty word for Jobs) but essential for on the road editing and easy and fast ingestion of my XDCAM EX3 clips.

(3) However, my main editing tool is running FCS2 on a 2009 Mac Pro - Nehalem 8 Core (16 virtual) 2.66GHz with 4 TB internal drive (3TB in a RAID 0) and numerous 2 TB RAID 0 GRAID3s and 4s. I'm awaiting the imminent news from Apple at NAB about the new FCS - in the hope that soon I'll be able to see all those cores in use as I'm zipping along during my then ultra fast editing...note to self, I need an even faster brain...

I mainly use two Dell 24 inch 2408WFP Ultrasharps (1920x1200) for display which are excellent (I can't stand overpriced glossy screens - the only thing I tolerate this reflective finish on is my 4th Gen iPod Touch).

In truth (because of a very busy period with my corporate work at the moment) I've not really had any "play time" on the Macs with any TM900 1080p50 editing, just in Vegas. There is no perfect NLE or platform. All have strengths and weaknesses, things I love and hate. At least with my flexible approach (not cheap!) I have several ways of doing things depending on mood, client need or speed (I can even edit and/or render to a huge variety of output formats independently on two NLEs at the same time). NLEs are just some of the tools I need to allow me to be creative, have fun doing it and make money.

I don't want this thread about the TM900 going to far off track but hope that's useful - Back to all things TM900 series specific!

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Nuff said....thanks Andy!