Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

"As far as the image stabilization, its wonderful but it can sometimes get a bit of a mind of its own after bumping around and the image will "float" and recenter a bit. I haven't found a way around it, but have found the IS generally amazing and allowing me to get handheld shots I haven't been able to achieve with other systems."

I love the stabilization of my TM700, but you could always stabilize in post. Here's a demo of my TM700 with stabilization off, 18x zoom & using Mercalli V2 in Sony Vegas to stabilize the clip.


...Jerry

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks for the info Roger. Looks like I'm just gonna have to get really quick at manually locking the WB, shutter and iris. Sure be nice if there were a way to it in just one step. Maybe on next year's model... When everything is right I think the picture quality is remarkably good. But if an adjustment is off things fall apart pretty quickly.

Noticed that B&H put these on sale today for $599-. I should have waited a week to buy mine. Arghhh.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I think it is an amazing camera for the price, but doesn't have the manual controls you might enjoy with a 3 ring lens. I used to use a Canon XHA1, and in many ways the TM900 bests it, but not in the arena of controlling manual functions. There still is a place for a fine, manually controlled camera with proper controls. I think the TM900 excells for shots that the scenery is somewhat constant, or where AF/IS is needed. It breaks down a bit when you need excellent, intelligent manual control of the camera.

I recently shot a session with my son of a winery in N. Georgia showing their vineyards and processing techniques as a draft for a TV pilot before incurring significant expense on broadcast gear and talent. I used the TM900 on a shoulder mount. I feel the TM900 performed beautifully. We had a 7d and t2i to cover wide shots, their footage is not shown. AF, IS, and Automatic exposure were quite good. This is un-CC'd footage in the raw, so realize I'm showing what came directly out of camera and sound is quite rough:

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Can't find that price! Went to B&H and it's $724. I'd be tempted to pick up a couple at $599.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/749839-REG/Panasonic_HDC_TM900K_HDC_TM900_High_Definition_3MOS.html

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Try this link for the B&H sale price: Panasonic HDC-TM900 High Definition Camcorder B&H Photo Video

Also, when I play your winery video, I'm seeing a very poor quality replay (i.e. blocking artifacts). It looks like the TM900 did a very nice job, but Vimeo is causing problems.

...Jerry

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I uploaded @ 15Mbps 1080, so that might be a struggle for Vimeo. I may need to downgrade to 720 @ 5Mbps, which is their normal standard. Until then, I'll turn off 1080P. If you go straight to Vimeo, it looks better.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

@Roger, Have you tried HandBrake? I'm a huge supporter of the following procedure:


Of course you may not edit in Vegas, but the HandBrake parts of the tutorial should apply to most any video editing software. The tut is also focused on deinterlacing, but HandBrake also works very well for resizing & compressing progressive footage.

...Jerry

PS: I went to your Vimeo site and the footage plays w/o problems. That's strange? In any case, your point of the TM900 taking some beautiful footage is well taken!

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Roger, your winery material played well and looked very good to me so I doubt if Vimeo is the problem.

Jerry, I was very impressed with the stabilisation you achieved with the Mercalli V2 and I was wondering how useful it is with a tracking shot that is not as smooth as it might be?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

@Alastair, I haven't made a demo video for motion stabilization, but Mercalli V2 has a preset named "Glide Camera" which is used to simulate a GlideCam. I don't have a demo of this in my library, but a search turned up the following which was made by the well-respected video editing guru, John Rofrano.


There's also the proDAD website with demo footage: proDAD Mercalli Version 2

I love making short demo videos, so maybe in a few days I'll produce a "Glide Camera" demo. I want to wait for the sun to shine on the East Coast of the US, which might be a few days [grin]

...Jerry

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Jerry,

I've never used Handbrake but am a long time user of Vegas Pro, now using V11. I shoot only progressive footage now. Looking at the sample I provided, understanding it hasn't been graded yet, what advantages would you expect to see following this method? You won't hurt my feelings a bit, I'd love to get better at sharing online and have been reasonably happy with standard Vegas renders, except for the long conversion process.

I typically use Sony AVC 720P @ 5Mbps and have found that better than MainConcept AVC.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

"...what advantages would you expect to see following this method?"

Rather than (further) hijack this thread, I've posted my reply here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...ml#post1702011

...Jerry

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I've found the AF so good on this camera, that my attempts at "improving it" with manual focus have been unimpressive. I will use manual for static shots, especially on the occasions when the subject is off center and the AF want's to focus on the background. I haven't found the manual ring very easy to achieve a "feel" for focusing like higher end cameras I've used, and the excellent fringing assist is difficult to follow when things get moving.

Have others been able to master manual focus on this cam for difficult scenes?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks Jerry,

I have found more examples of what can be done with Mercalli V2. It looks very promising.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Roger,

For me motorising the control ring was a huge step forward particularly when used with the blue focus assist.
The remote control eliminates the risk of bumping the camera and I do not have to remember which way to turn the ring.
It also makes it possible to focus remotely. I have a boom that I sometimes use to when recording birds at their nests. Under these conditions I can decide the focus point rather than leaving the camera to decide.
I often use close-up lenses and the control ring is almost essential as the depth of field is only a few millimetres. Again the the focus assist is incredibly helpful.
The next step will be to add a speed control and play with follow focus but only at close range.

Built-in ND filter
 

Does this camera have a built-in ND which engages when bright conditions require it? Is anyone having a problem with keeping a full sunlight day under control? I used to own a SD100 which was very similar to this cam and it had the built-in ND.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Brian,

No ND. You either have to use a screw on ND or stop the iris/shutter down.

Re: ND filter(s) built in
 

Roger,

Sorry, the TM900 does have a built-in auto ND filter (maybe more than one). This is Tom Hardwick's explanation:

"So what happens when you shoot movies? Well the camera shoots at maximum aperture and if it gets brighter more and more ND is applied. Its the same in manual or auto - you think you're shooting at f/4.5 (say) but you're not - you're shooting at whatever the maximum aperture is for the focal length you've set. That's f/1.5 at wide stopping smoothly (ramping) down to f/2.8 at full tele.

So the lens 'stops down' (using ND) to f/5.6 and only if it gets brighter still do the aperture blades start to close. You can see that scenes shot at an indicated f/8 are actually shot at f/4, bringing with it the dof that comes with f/4."

This is common in small-sensor cameras to avoid diffraction at very small apertures.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Mark,

You lost me there. ND is an optical device to restrict the amount of light allowed into the lens without shifting colors. What you are describing is a combination of gain, aperture, and perhaps shutter speed, which doesnt seem to qualify as ND. Usually ND filters are used to allow a wider aperture and/or slower shutter speed that otherwise possible with fast optics. Here's a good Wiki discussion on the topic: Neutral density filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, are you saying you understand the TM900 to employ an optical ND to the camera, or just some unexpected manipulation of shutter speed, gain, and aperture? If the latter, that doesn't seem to qualify as ND.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks, I know what an ND filter is. Yes, an optical ND filter is used. Did you understand Tom's explanation about dof (need a Wikipedia reference to that? :)) and how the ND filter works in combination with aperture blades and shutter speed? It is why dof does not change when the effective aperture changes due to simply light dimming by the *optical* ND filter.

Are you now willing to concede that your answer about the ND filter in the TM900 was not correct? There was a discussion of this already. I only care about this so that others are not misled by your incorrect response, and I appreciate your trying to get it right.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks for the responses. Mark you seemed to confirm what I was guessing. That an internal ND engages automatically to try and keep the f-stop at a somewhat open position. This confirms my memory of the SD100 which I used to own. On a day which contained full sun, the iris would read f8 or f11 for example. Whereas my DSLR would be reading f22 for the same scene.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Mark,

Looks like you are correct and I am wrong. The TM900 seems to employ an automatic ND of some kind. Thanks for the gracious manner in which you exposed my error.


Hopefully in this exchange we don't loose the fact that there are situations where using screw-on ND filters with the TM900 to achieve a specific look beyond what the build in ND filters deliver. Agreed?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Agree completely. In fact in all the video I shoot in bright conditions I use a screw-on optical ND filter with the TM900.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

For this TM900 video, I used a screw-on ND filter for all scenes but the final dusk scenes.

Ducks, geese, joggers, quidditch playoff (Harry Potter game), birds, graffiti. Cold, windy and sunny.

Shot 108060p. Edited in Vegas Pro, to 108030p.


And here is a frame grab from the video:

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...041/004661.jpg

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

if you shot in 60p edited in 30p, why isn't it slow motion?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

The 60p video was converted, not slowed down, to 30p, which is exactly what Vimeo always does.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

The 900 controls its (movie) exposure by varying the amount of ND that it slides into the optical path alongside the iris blades. As I say, it will shoot at maximum aperture for as long as possible and only start to close the aperture blades when all the ND is in place.

Of course shooting at max aperture is always asking for trouble, even though this camera uses Panasonic's tightly-toleranced zoom lens production lines. All lenses vignette at maximum aperture, they flare more and miss-centering of elements causes unavoidable softness. The vignetting can be digitally compensated for, though on a camera costing so little I doubt whether it is being done (I've done no tests on this yet).

Adding external ND is always an option (though you'll need a new hood and you'll have to keep the ND spotless when shooting at these tiny focal lengths). But remember that adding ND will keep the camera shooting at maximum aperture for longer - i.e. it will take even brighter conditions to effect the first actual iris blade stop-down. Think on this Mark.

This is no bad thing in a camera that uses smaller than ¼'' chips, as you shouldn't really shoot at apertures smaller than f/4 anyway.

That Vimeo-shown Mercalli salvation is impressive, though the CMOS jello becomes more obvious. Bet they're working on that.

tom.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Mark,

Are you using a fixed ND (what value) or variable (what brand)?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I am using a .6 ND (Tiffen). In the bright conditions I use the filter, at 1/60th shutter the nominal f never goes below f4. The camera is never shooting wide open.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

You say you never shoot at apertures smaller than f/4 Mark? That's an on-screen indicated f/4, right? Remember that for most of the zoom's range f/4 is a combination of wide open iris+internal ND. Or in your case wide open + internal and external ND.

At full tele the camera's still shooting wide open when the read-out says f/5.6. Easy enough to see this as you peer down the lens.

tom.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Tom, I am sure we all appreciate the information you are providing. However, let's not get carried away with this: "All lenses vignette at maximum aperture, they flare more and miss-centering of elements causes unavoidable softness."

I would bet that Pansonic has chosen the ND-blades algorithm to miminmize the problems you raise. In any case, I have not noticed any of these issues on my calibrated big-screenHDTV in the videos I shoot. The key reason I use the ND filter is I find that the TM900 overexposes less badly in auto aperture mode with the filter on in bright sun. All of the videos I have posted have employed the ND filter, and no one among the thousands viewing them has complained about softness!

Getting exposure right is of first-order importance in video; substantially more important than the fear of vignetting, unclean filter, mis-centering, etc. with a camera of the quality of the TM900.

It is very useful to know, however, that the internal ND filter means that one need not worry about shooting at tiny apertures in bright sun and thus diffraction.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Quite so Mark - I didn't mean to infer that the 900's picture quality was sub-standard in any way - in fact I find it amazingly good and can be made to look even better with the hyped electronic sharpening turned way down. I also turn down the exposure because of burnt out highlights.

I just wish Panasonic hadn't moved away from their previous incarnation of internal ND, where the lens physically stopped down to f/4.5 and only at that point was the internal ND gradually brought into play. Using this ROM programming means the camera is often used a couple of stops down - no bad thing for cameras that use such cheap lenses.

I find it odd that adding external ND controls your 900's over-exposure because an ND only absorbs light, the exposure of the chips will be the same with or without ND (in iA, say).

tom.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I have found the degree of overexposure is non-linearly related to the amount of light coming through the lens.

Actually, before your posts I thought the algorithm was the old one they typically employed. Maybe the lens is different and so the new rules are more appropriate.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Great replies . Thanks for the input. I plan on picking one of these cameras up soon. I've seen some footage on YouTube and the 60p is fantastic for a consumer cam. One other question. Is the 24p mode native or is the 24p in a 60i container with pulldown applied?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Mark,

How are you maintaining the MTS file type when you upload to Vimeo? When you edit together your clips, what program are you using to keep the bitrate and file the same as original?

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi, this is my first post!

I have a SD 900 and have been following this thread for a while now picking up some very useful tips. I have a question on when and when not to use the IS on the camera. Should I use it when panning either slow or fast pans? I know not to use it with a stabiliser, just not sure on panning.

Thanks
Mark

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

The problem is that the OIS is so effective at removing the vibrations of hand-holding that it comes with its own side-effects. Easiest way to see this is to put your 900 on a good tripod with OIS turned on. Zoom to a middling focal length and pan from something center frame to something else 45 degrees away or so, and stop panning when that 2nd object is centre frame.

See what happens? The image overshoots and then gently slides back to centre frame, and this happens after your camera has come to a complete stop. Not good. Even worse with the hybrid stabilisation turned on, and independent of panning speed.

So in answer to your question, have the OIS turned off for pans and tilts. Not a very practical solution if you're out and about without a tripod, but as I say - a side-effect of powerful OIS. My Sony NX5 doesn't do this with its OIS turned on BTW.

tom.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

TM900s are going for only $599, because of a rebate. But you gotta buy before Dec. 24, 2011. Pretty good price!

Re: Panasonic TM900 Users Thread - Index as at 17th Dec 2011
 

Now at 62,000 views so I guess this is currently one of the more popular threads on DVinfo! I've not been that active on here due to a very busy corporate video work load the last few months but I reckon it's time for another very brief summary of what we've all covered - before the Xmas holidays and to help those researching "what camera to buy" (in the New Year sales).

Don't forget you can use the "Seach this Thread" function too as I've only skimmed the latest pages to pick out a few highlights. Many thanks to everyone for making this such a useful and informative thread about the TM900 (and SD900, HS900 etc.).

Page 1 - TM900 specs, first impressions, link to Panasonic information, new battery type needed, suggested camera settings, No "Bondi Blue", remote control.

Page 2 - Filters and chances of vignetting, editing 1080p50/60.

Page 3 - 1080p50 as slow motion in post, hybrid optical image stabilisation and iZoom test video.

Page 4 - No Bondi Blue (again...), tendency to overexpose in bright sunlight, low light test video.

Page 5 - TM900 and Steadicam Merlin test video, larger battery pics/comments, battery charger.

Page 6 - More TM900 and Steadicam Merlin tests, Rode Videomic Pro/Nikon ME-1 discussion, my accessory shoe modification.

Page 7 - Polarising filters, ND filters, more test films.

Page 8 - Wide angle adapters, TM900 and Canon 7D comparison test video.

Page 9 - More on wide angle adapters, manual settings.

Page 10 - More on manual settings, menus, shutter speed selection, relay recording clarified.

Page 11 - Rode Vidoemic Pro and deadcat information (link to audio section), editing 1080p50 (again), iZoom and polarising filters clarification.

Page 12 - Fan noise (or lack of in some cases), wide angle adapters (again), recording specs - still unanswered - anyone?

Page 13 - Some discussion on Intelligent Contrast Mode.

Page 14 - Discussion on AVCHD, editing, wide angles for the TM900 etc. series and ultra close up (i.e. macro ideas and lens tips). Discussion on F stops.

Page 15 - F-stops discussion continued. Pics of the Rode VMP (with Deadcat on) on a Rycote bar with my TM900.

Page 16 - Shutter speed discussion. Tendency to blow out highlights and exposure compensation settings discussed again.

Page 17 - More thoughts and demos on shutter speed. Good new user summary.

Page 18 - SD card choice/suggestions.

Page 19 - Filters and backlight compensation discussion.

Page 20 - Backlight compensation discussion (cont.) and batteries/battery life.

Page 21 - Asthetics of the TM900 image along with neutral density/other filters discussion/image issues with small sensor cams.

Page 22 - Canon 60D versus TM900 image/asthetics comments. Discussion on slow shutter speeds.

Page 23 - TM900 for an African safari? - comments and advice. Serious audio accessories (with excellent pics).

Page 24 - More African safari TM900 accessory kit advice plus Nikon ME1 microphone comments.

Page 25 - TM900 and NLE workflow discussion/suggestions.

Page 26 - Ultra close-ups, Iris discussion, mic AGC and more about HD Writer.

Page 27 - File management during media editing and archiving discussion. Battery charger link and power options for long field trips.

Page 28 - HD Writer discussion continued. Suggestions about best Sharpness settings in cam and remotely controlling the TM900 on a boom pole etc.

Page 29 - Not possible to dual media record, more interesting discussions on remote controlling the TM900.

Page 30 - Some suggestions about tripods [for the record I use a Libec TH650DV], more discussion about remote control plus some excellent pics/accessories! Use of iA or Manual discussed again. Effectiveness of Image Stabilisation (I.S.) also discussed.

Page 31 - Auto Focus (AF) accuracy, built in ND discussion and screw on ND example film.

Page 32 - More on ND filters/F-stop discussion. IS discussion (in-camera and in post). TM900's at an amazing price - see post above! I expect a new model will be announced/appear soon.

[NOTE: I seem to remember it was very early in 2011 that the TM900 got announced - I got mine in mid-Feb 2011 just a few weeks afterwards, and along with buying Adobe CS 5.5 Production Premium for my Mac Pro - to superceed Final Cut - the TM900 has truly been one of the best purchases I made in this last year!]

Happy Holidays!

OIS and iZoom
 

The OIS on the TM900 is amazing, especially when used at full telephoto (420mm) and using iZoom to get 700mm. These are frame grabs from handheld 108060p video at 420mm and 700mm, respectively. Shutter speed was 1/60th, so any camera movement would have significantly reduced sharpness (blur).

HD Writer AE 3.0
 

The included editing software enables one to trim and merge 108060p clips without re-encoding and without glitches. There is even an array of pre-set transitions for use.

This video was made using the software (my first use of the software), so the downloadable file is pristine, sharp TM900 all the way.



Birds, turtles, a fish frenzy, graduates, a model, soccer, lily pads, flowers.

Intelligent telephoto mode used (700mm) for some shots.

108060p, manual mode except WB, ND filter.