180 degree shutter angle needed?
 

Andy and Geoffrey suggested a 1/100th sec shutter to help with exposure in bright light... good advice in my opinion, since shooting at 50 fps (or 60) this gives us a 180 degree shutter angle. One is supposed to NEVER film with a greater than 180 degree shutter. 1/50th second shutter speed at 50 fps frame rate gives a shutter angle of 360 degrees, open all the time! This can cause smearing on fast moving objects, you would hardly ever want to use 1/25th shutter at 25fps would you? That would also be 360 degrees, only when pushed by lack of light might it be considered.

Conversely you can have a faster shutter than 1/100th but except for static scenes without much movement then as Geoffrey said, with an unnatural stuttery look.

You can of course break the 180 degree shutter rule but it helps to understand it before you do and I found these two articles with videos demonstrating the effect very good at demonstrating the various results.

180 Degree Shutter - Learn It, Live It, Love It

The 180s of Filmmaking: Part 2 – The Most Commonly Broken Rule The Art & Business of Filmmaking & Photography

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I'm afraid I can't really agree with you about this Claire..... ( that's the the "NEVER film with a greater than 180 degree shutter" bit I mean)

What you say is true for 25P and 24P shooting, but at the higher "images per second" rates of 50i or 50P I don't think blur is the same problem than it would be with a 1/25th shutter in 25P.

A conventional 50 field per second interlaced video camera would always (historically) have used an exposure of 1/50th sec per field, which is essentially a 360 degree shutter. It was certainly the norm for the old standard definition TV tube cameras. ( 59.94 fields per sec. and approx. 1/60th sec per field shutter in U.S.A. of course)

I always try to shoot in 50P with a 1/50th shutter which will give traditional video motion analysis for 50P and when converted to 50i or, by losing every other frame, traditional film style motion analysis for 25P.

Having said that, I would agree that a 1/100th shutter is not too damaging to the motion, and will give actually the best matching "film" style motion for half speeding to 25P..... but other than that, I think 1/50th is best.

dave

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Geoffrey and Claire

Thank you for this explanation, I was looking for such usefull information.
So a maximum of 1/100 s for the shutterspeed is recommended, when you film with 50 frames/second.
That means that you have to go fully manual with this camera and don't let the iris float.

It also means that you have to be carefull with a (long) panning shot, because the settings of your fixed shutterspeed and your fixed iris allow only a limited range of lightconditions.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I love the footage I can capture with my TM900, but, after a couple of months with it, one thing is annoying me. Getting a decent representation of what I am shooting on the LCD. I am spoilt I guess by using a Sony EX1 every day, amazing LCD, which displays, exposure, colour and focus extremely accurately. I appreciate that the LCD on the TM900 is not particularly high res, but I do like to set LCDs up fairly tightly. I have tried many settings, and checked via HDMI on my two HD TVs. Still cant get it as close as I would like. The VF on the TM900 is way oversaturated, with an almost pastel shade to it. There is of course only brightness adjustment on the VF. Its fine for framing shots, but not a lot else. Also I find the two indoor mode white balance presets virtually useless, both produce a bit of a murky, turquise cast. I have tried to tweak all settings, still cant get it just so. Manual white balance is fine in daylight, but under decent artificial light it tends to produce oversaturated blues/ deep colours and undersaturated yellows and other light colours. Has anyone found a group of settings that they they are happy with ?
Feedback appreciated.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi

I'm not sure the 180 degree rule fully follows through to 1080/50p on modern HD video cameras. The idea of the rule is really for film where mechanics are involved (hence the degrees bit as that was to do with the shape of mechanical shutter wheels) and with modern cameras we talk about shutter speeds.

With modern film cameras using shutters rather than rotating discs the 180 degree rule was a nice nostalgic way of saying keep the shutter speed at twice the frame rate, a good rule with 24fps as using a fast shutter speed with such low frame rates causes us to stop perceiving motion and we start perceiving a series of static images shown one after the other, that is where the judder comes from. Using a slow shutter speed allows anything moving to blur in each frame which is essential with slow frame rates in order for us to be fooled into perceiving motion. The 180 degree rule is simply to help work around a limitation of film.

With 50 (or 60) progressive frames per second, it doesn't matter if each frame is frozen in time, as there are enough frames to flick past our eyes to allow us to still see motion. Factor in 100Hz TVs which interpolate extra frames, then they will do a much better job at that if each frame isn't blurred.

The only time you might need to worry about shutter speeds on modern 1080/50p cameras is where you know you are going to deliver at slow frame rates later, perhaps to the net at 30p, or you will convert down to 25p for the 'film effect', which ironically the film industry is trying to leave behind. Even then you could do that in post.

Fixing the shutter speed in bright conditions will mean the camera has to close the iris further than it otherwise might which means it is operating out of the sweet spot of the optics.

Personally I've seen no issues at all with high shutter rates on 50p, movement is still fluid and perfectly natural. Why shoot in HD at 50 or 60 progressive frames a second than allow each frame to blur using the 180 degree rule that was for mechanical film cameras running at 24fps? The big benefit of 50p is the ability to capture movement without that movement becoming blur and dropping in resolution due to interlacing, so it seems pointless to me imposing an outdated 180 degree rule just to re-introduce a drop in resolution when anything moves!

I think we need to embrace HD video and work to it's strengths, not shackle it with old rules that personally I can't see how they apply now.

Regards

Phil

Shutterspeed
 

As far as I understand, the shutter speed in a digital videocamera is managed electronically, there is no mechanical shutter.
A compilation:
The difference is that, rather than using a mechanical device, the shutter speed is adjusted by electronically varying the amount of time the CCD/CMOS is allowed to build a charge. The shutter speed does not affect the frame rate, which is completely separate and always stays according to your framerate-setting.
The main effect of higher shutter speeds is that individual frames appear sharper, due to the minimisation of motion blur. Motion blur occurs when the subject moves within the frame while the "shutter" is open. The less time the shutter is open (i.e. the faster the shutter speed), the less movement will take place.
The side-effect of higher shutter speeds is that movement appears more jerky. This is because motion blur tends to smooth consecutive frames together.

An example, the framerate is 50p, film time is 1 second, only a part of the frames are shown:

---------- stands for the time one frame exists, in this case 1/50 second.
x stands for the exposure time due to the shutter (opening) speed.
The gap between the frames is the time needed for the unloading of the image-sensor.

Shutter is closed:
---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- etcetera untill 50 frames.

If we use a shutterspeed of 1/500 second, then each frame will get light during 1/10 of it's existence.
x--------- x--------- x--------- x--------- x--------- x--------- x--------- x--------- etcetera untill 50 frames.

If we use a shutterspeed of 1/100 second, then each frame will get light during 1/2 of it's existence.
xxxxx----- xxxxx----- xxxxx----- xxxxx----- xxxxx----- xxxxx----- xxxxx----- etcetera untill 50 frames.

If we use a shutterspeed of 1/50 second, then each frame will get light during 1/1 of it's existence.
xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx etcetera untill 50 frames.

That means, in principal, that de slowest shutterspeed, for a framerate setting of 50p, is 1/50 second, because you can not expose a frame longer than the existence of the frame itself.
In some camera's it is possible for the "shutter" to be open for multiple frames, the shutter speed can be set as low as 1/5 second; accumulating light across 10 frames (at a frame rate of 50 frames per second).

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I don't have any great TM900 footage of fast shutter speeds on fast moving objects, but I did dig up a brief clip shot with an XHA1 of running water using I believe 1/250 or 1/500 shutter speed. Other than compression artifacts due to HDV compression, what I see is droplets suspended in time as one would expect from a fast shutter speed.


For this piece, this is the exact effect I wanted, so I used fast shutter for artistic reasons. I wish would have had 60fps HD, but you use what you have (or had in 2008).

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Decided to attempt similar footage with the TM-900, the best my kitchen sink and two high powered LED flashlights could afford! Here's water at 1/30; 1/60; 1/100; 1/250; and 1/500 on the TM-900. I kept the iris constant on all shots and varied gain to try and achieve correct exposure, with varying success.:


So, as I look at these two very different digital camera examples, the faster shutter increasingly freezes the action in each frame and breaks down the blurred stream of water in the slower frames into individual droplets in the faster shutter speeds. I don't see anything unexpected or the image otherwise marred by the faster shutter. A "strobing" effect may be desirable in some situations if you're going for a certain look.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

@Roger

Thank you for your "practical" clips.
Your demonstration corresponds with the theory ...

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I love it when theory and reality mesh!

Here's a great piece on how cinema is adapting to the capabilities of the digital medium and the lack of mechanical shutters (someone else posted this on DVinfo a while back):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkWLZy7gbLg

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

@Roger

Rather not, what will the next Panasonic camera be if the designers theories do not deliver what is expected ... poor us.

The clip nicely explains why I never will use a lesser framerate than the maximum; the 50p is the reason why I have bought the Panasonic HDC 900, together with the great image stabilization of course.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I agree to an extent, and 50P was one of the main reasons I bought my TM700, but I believe it's wise to think about fast shutter speeds and high frame rates as two different things. I notice in the clip that Douglas Trumbull specifically makes the point that his high frame rate system captures all of time (effectively a 360degree shutter)..... so I assume that means 120fps uses a 1/120th shutter speed.

I am not saying you should never use a high shutter speed, just that it changes the nature of the perception of motion. Looking at Roger's water fountain test, it is clearly identifiable as a water fountain at 1/30th and 1/60th shutter but becomes a more abstract set of sparkles at the higher shutter speeds.... so much so that you could almost convince yourself you are looking down at a puddle in the rain. It really all depends on what you are trying to achieve.

The early specifications of the three new 1/3" 3 chip cameras from Panasonic suggest they use the traditional range of frame rates (1080 at 25p, 50i, 24p, 60i etc.). Disappointing.....

dave

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I am new to this forum, but I have read all the postings on this thread - some of them more than once. I am also new to videography, having yet to buy my first camcorder. However, I am an intermediate-level amateur DSLR photographer (Nikon D200) and have been doing 35mm and/or DSLR photography for the past 50 years. What I'm fairly good at is composition, color, and light, and the interrelationships between shutter speed, lens aperture, and film or sensor speed, also white balance. But I know nothing about the "mechanics" of videography, and am trying to learn about the interrelationships between shutter speed, frame speed, gain, resolution, format, etc.

I've decided that now is the time to jump in. I plan to buy a camcorder in July and practice on it for at least four months before making a six-week trip to equatorial Africa, where I will be in a village with no electricity. Because I want to do serious filming, I'm seriously considering buying the TM900. I recognize this is a fairly sophisticated camcorder (and fairly expensive), and I'm wondering what experienced videographers think about someone like me taking on the TM900 as my first videocam.

Let me tell you why this camcorder appeals to me, based on what I've read here and in the Users' Manual):
- Small size and light weight
- Excellent(?) Leica lens
- Good zoom characteristics
- EVF - essential for my poor eyes in bright sunlight
- Appears to be able to take a good wide angle adapter - desirable for those group shots as well as panoramic ones
- Good marks for low-light situations
- Excellent image stabilization
- Will operate with a 64GB Ckass 4 SDXC card (Can be bought for about $110)
- Reasonably decent still picture capability

My biggest concerns are: (I realize some go beyond this particular camcorder)
- Power - Is there a TM900 external charger available yet? (I could hook it up to a solar-powered charger or drive 25km to the nearest electricity source.)
- Storage - I'll have to resolve the best way to back up my files while in the bush
- Understanding AVCHD (HA/HG/HX/HE) vs. 1080/60p, when to use each, and why

I have dozens of questions, but I'll continue to try to find answers to most of them and will limit myself to two here.
1) Am I biting off more than I can chew by buying this sophisticated machine?
2) Can anyone direct me to a site that explains the difference between AVCHD and 1080/60p and when I should use each? (I have been searching through other DVInfo threads.)

Thanks very much for any help you can provide. I hope I haven't bored all you experienced, professional videographers, but I have found this discussion forum very educational, and I appreciate all the effort that you put into it.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi George and welcome!

1. No, if you ever get daunted just press the iAuto button and let the cam do all the work! You won't get the best results that way (especially regarding exposure) but you'll soon learn your way around the menus and get skills in manual modes while having fun learning.

2. 1080p50 (or 1080p60 in NTSC countries) is a bit of an awkward animal to edit with many NLEs as it falls outside the "rules" or normal AVCHD being both higher in bit rate (28Mbps as opposed to the 24Mbps max AVCHD that is allowed) and of course is double the normal frame rate. I (and many others) still use this new format because on the TM900 it gives razor sharp 1080p and lovely smooth motion, especially if used for slow motion effects in post. However, few NLEs currently handle it (Vegas does, and Edius) and you'll need a pretty recent decent spec Windows box to handle the files. I've not got very far (mainly because of time/work pressures) in experimenting with getting those 1080p50 files to be editable on my Mac systems in Final Cut.

AVCHD files give a less impressive result on the TM900 (still pretty good) I think partly because Panasonic only went with 17Mbps data rate for their 1080p30 (or 1080p25) setting, not the maximum allowed (24Mbps), as used on the latest prosumer Sony cams like the CX700 (I believe from memory).

Got to go out but hope that gets you going!

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks, Andy. That's a great start. I'm going to get the TM900. If I bite off more than I can chew, then I'll just chew a little bit longer. I'm hoping I can wean myself from the iAuto button ASAP, since I like to decide for myself what shooting compromises I'm prepared to make.

The biggest exposure challenge in Africa will be, I think, capturing very dark faces in bright daylight conditions. I could do exposure bracketing on my D200 and quickly adjust if I had to. I suspect that's more difficult with motion photography.

Another challenge, I suspect, will be in capturing outdoor sound (music, speaking, birds/animals, etc.) in breezy or windy conditions. I will get an external mic. and a deadcat (I love that term) based on what I've read elsewhere in this thread.

And, as I mentioned previously, backup storage is going to present a challenge. I will need something with high capacity and low power consumption. I'm thinking of an inexpensive netbook coupled with an external drive that powers off the USB only, since I will be away from reliable, continuous power for six weeks.

I'm wondering how others may have solved these problems.

And thanks for clarifying fps for me. I'm still confused as to how bit rate fits into the equation (except, of course, to guess that faster is better). Does it affect image quality, or is quality purely a function of resolution? And does bit rate affect file size? Still a puzzlement to me.

I won't be offended if anybody suggests I go to a different thread with these questions. I do realize that they are not specific to the TM900. But I'm confident I'll have more specific questions once I get my hands on the beast!

Thanks again.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

George,

Welcome to the forum. I think for someone who cares about the image and doesn't want to spend a lot, the TM900 is a great place to jump in. I know it seems expensive, but for the image it produces, it's quite a value. It's also quite easy to use in comparison to professional units. I think you'll be glad you made the purchase. As far as storage, that is a much discussed topic on various forums. Most resort to multiple hard drives for serious work, but there isn't a perfectly safe, super easy way yet. It is one of the downfalls of digital media, but the upside for productivity is very positive. I'm staring at a box of miniDV tapes with old projects and a few new, unopened tapes. I'm not down on tape at all, it has its advantages, but it would be very hard to go back. Storage will only get cheaper and simpler with digital and I imagine we will ultimately store our work in the cloud and laugh at the days of having our own disc drives. I just finished uploading all of my rendered work to the cloud, but its not practical to load source files yet.

Enjoy you camera!

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thank you, Roger and Andy, for your advice.

Now I'm faced with another challenge: whether to buy the TM900 now or wait a week or two. The price seems to be coming down. Today, two well-known reputable on-line sellers are listing it at US$889.99. The price is about $40 dollars lower at less reputable dealers who resort to aggressive upselling once you place your order.

I wonder if the $110 drop in price is due to rumors of a newer model, or just the competitive market at work.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

I've decided to order the TM900 later today or tomorrow. The price now seems stable at $889. I'm going to buy some cards, too, and I'm wondering if anybody can sanity-check my thinking on required speed rating, as follows:

About.com gives me the following two info-bits:
1) "The amount of data recorded at any given second is called a bit rate, and for camcorders it’s measured in megabits (one million bits) per second, or Mbps. The more data you’re recording, the better the quality of your video."
2) "The bit rate also matters if you own a flash memory card-based camcorder. Memory cards have their own data transfer rate, measured in megabytes per second or MBps (1 megabyte = 8 megabits). Some memory cards are too slow for high bit rate camcorders, and others are too fast. They’ll still record, but you’ll pay extra for speed you don’t need."

The TM900 Users Manual tells us to, "Use SD cards conforming to Class 4 or higher . . . for motion picture recording."

So, the highest recording speed on the TM900 is 28Mbps. Converted to MBps (divide by 8) we have 3.5MBps. The SD industry standards for Class 4 SDXC card say it writes at a minimum 4MBps (the standards specify the rating has to be the minimum - not average or maximum or optimal - speed).

Therefore, if I am using only the TM900, am I correct in assuming I should NEVER have to buy any SDXC card higher than a Class 4 rating?

If I pass the sanity-check, then this looks like a very attractive cost effective on-board storage option for the TM900.

SDSDRH064GA11 SanDisk 64GB Ultra Secure Digital Extended Capacity, SDXC, Memory Card, Class 4 15MB/Sec Read/Write Speed

It suggests I can get an additional 64GB for just about $4.00 over what the cost of the camera alone was two weeks ago.

Does all this make sense, or am I missing something?

Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks

Thanks for any help.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

@ George

You are correct, that is why I bought the HCD SD900, it uses only cheap cards ;-}

But the card speed also defines your offloading speed of a 64 GB card ...

See also my post:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...questions.html

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

7:30am here in California. Can't sleep due to excitement about my upcoming purchase!

Thanks, Anthony, for this clarification. I'm sorry I didn't see your referenced post before posting my query. I had wondered about download speeds as well, but decided that if I use swappable cards, I won't have to worry too much about how long my backups take. (I'm an amateur and don't have to adhere to deadlines.)

Given the speed ratings numbers we've talked about, are there any other reason sbeyond the higher capacity available (64GB) that I should consider SDXC of SDHC?

Edit:
Ooops! I just read through your answer to Barry on the other thread (I had missed the second page) and I think I've got all the info I need on SDHC vs. SDXC.

I think my best choice, keeping price in mind, will be Class 6 SDHC.

Thanks much.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Well, I just ordered the TM900 and a Transcend 32GB Class 6 SDHC card on Amazon for a total of $933.69 (US). I also ordered an SDXC-capable USB card reader ($6) and 15 ft. mini-HDMI/HDMI cable ($12) so I can watch my raw footage on my large LED TV.

Delivery in 5 - 7 days, and then I can start practising....Hooray!

I have learned a lot from this thread and others on DVInfo. Now, forgive me, I have two more questions:

1) Previous posts have talked about the Raynox wide angle adapters. I am looking at the Raynox HD6600PRO-46 0.66x model. Does anyone have specific experience with this on the TM900? Online reviews at various selling sites mention that it works well on the TM700, but the Raynox website cautions to be sure that it will mount correctly on your specific cam because the inside glass extends a bit out from the screw mount. I'm hoping the 900 is no different than the 700 in this regard.

2) I already own B&H 72mm Polaroid and UV filters for my D200. Would these work OK on the TM900? It appears I would have to use two adapter rings to get from 46mm to 72mm. Would this present any problems?

Incidentally, the outer screw mount on the Raynox is 72mm, so it will handle my filters without any adapters. I really don't want to buy additional 46mm filters if I don't have to.

Thanks again.

Re: Panasonic TM900 & Rode Videomic Pro (Pictures & Comments)
 

@ Andy Wilkinson: -

I was looking at your pictures of the Rode VMP thinking the same thing about overhang but having received my HS900 I see the shoe mount is in a different position, on the top, nearer the rear, so it will be further back with no worries about the dead-cat should I get/need one.

So, only decision now is whether or not I need one!

:D

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

George, my advice would be to stay well clear of any sort of filters with a camcorder using such very short focal length lenses. OK to fit a UV if you think you're going to be hit by sea spray or Sahara sand, but otherwise don't do it. Certainly don't use filters with additional screw-on lenses.

You're adding two extra air-to-glass surfaces (which are never spotless) and you're reducing the lens hood's efficiency hugely - just when you most want it. I've demonstrated to disbelievers the image degradation filters can bring to your footage in against the light and wide-angle situations using matched cameras, and they've removed their filters immediately. Just use a microfibre cloth on the front element every now and again, as I've discussed here many a time.

I owned a 6600PRO a few years ago and was pleased with the lens. It sacrifices full zoom through for tight control on the barrel distortion, a fair compromise in my view. I haven't tried it on the 900 but one thing's for sure - the standard zoom is too tele-orientated, and would be a lot more useful if it was moved towards wide-angle.

tom.

Re: Panasonic TM900 & Rode Videomic Pro (Pictures & Comments)
 

I was aware the shoe might have been in a different position on the HS900, i.e. under a plastic flap on the top rather than fixable to the front/RH side on the TM900 (with the TM900's provided/removable accessory) - but could never find any pictures that clearly showed this on the HS900 - other than a hint of where it would be on some official Panasonic web pages!

Maybe you could post some pics for the benefit of everyone? I've just noticed this thread has been viewed 31,500 times so I'm sure someone, somewhere would love to see pics of a HS900 with a Rode VMP on top! The deadcat will help a little in mild breezes, just don't expect miracles...

Enjoy your new camera Barry!

The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread - Updated Index
 

Very brief summary of what we've covered below - lots of nuiances I've missed so don't forget you can use the "Seach this Thread" function too...or even read all 265 posts!!! ;-)

Page 1 - TM900 specs, first impressions, link to Panasonic information, new battery type needed, suggested camera settings, No "Bondi Blue", remote control.

Page 2 - Filters and chances of vignetting, editing 1080p50/60.

Page 3 - 1080p50 as slow motion in post, hybrid optical image stabilisation and iZoom test video.

Page 4 - No Bondi Blue (again...), tendency to overexpose in bright sunlight, low light test video.

Page 5 - TM900 and Steadicam Merlin test video, larger battery pics/comments, battery charger.

Page 6 - More TM900 and Steadicam Merlin tests, Rode Videomic Pro/Nikon ME1 discussion, my accessory shoe modification.

Page 7 - Polarising filters, ND filters, more test films.

Page 8 - Wide angle adapters, TM900 and Canon 7D comparison test video.

Page 9 - More on wide angle adapters, manual settings.

Page 10 - More on manual settings, menus, shutter speed selection, relay recording clarified.

Page 11 - Rode Vidoemic Pro and deadcat information (link to audio section), editing 1080p50 (again), iZoom and polarising filters clarification.

Page 12 - Fan noise (or lack of in some cases), wide angle adapters (again), recording specs - still unanswered - anyone?

Page 13 - Some discussion on Intelligent Contrast Mode.

Page 14 - Discussion on AVCHD, editing, wide angles for the TM900 etc. series and ultra close up (i.e. macro ideas and lens tips). Discussion on F stops.

Page 15 - F-stops discussion continued. Pics of the Rode VMP (with Deadcat on) on a Rycote bar with my TM900.

Page 16 - Shutter speed discussion. Tendency to blow out highlights and exposure compensation settings discussed again.

Page 17 - More thoughts and demos on shutter speed. Good new user summary.

Page 18 - Just scroll up!

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks for your advice, Tom. Regarding filters, there has been considerable comment about the advantages of polarizing filters, so it's interesting to hear your suggestion about eschewing all filters on the Panny. I was thinking a polarizer might provide the opportunity for more dramatic skies in Africa (I probably won't need it for water reflections). But now I will certainly consider what you're saying, especially about impairing the effectiveness of the lens hood, which I imagine I will be heavily relying on.

I'm pleased to hear confirmation that the Raynox .66 might be a good buy. Again, for Africa, I'm looking to capture moods of expansiveness, vastness. I don't see lack of full zoom through as a problem, given that objective.

I have had the TM900 for a week now, and I'm just beginning to understand its more basic features and capabilities. Even so, I am stunned by the clarity and brightness of my test images, shot in 1080p/60 and played back on my 60" LED TV directly from the camera. Also, I'm impressed with how the iA function works (even though I will wean myself from it in due course). I live on a hill in San Francisco with a view south past Candlestick Park to the City and bridge of San Mateo, about 15 miles away. I did a slow zoom in on a sailboat by the bridge, which couldn't even be seen at full wide. As I zoomed, the imager caught a thin telephone line crossing the view about 100 yards away from the camera and locked focus on it for a few seconds before returning to long distance. It's not what I wanted, but it indicates how acute the imaging is.

So far, I simply love this little beast, my first ever camcorder. Thanks to everybody for your advice over the past few weeks.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Just wanted to say a big thanks to Andy for starting the thread and all who have have posted here; I have just spent the last few hours reading the entire thread! And in doing so, have confirmed my initial thoughts about getting the SD900 to work alongside my Canon 5D2 and 60D cameras. I still have my old SD format Panasonic GS400 and it seems many of the operational concepts are similar with the new 900 series.

So, looks like I'll be placing my order soon, selling the GS400, but keeping my Raynox HD7000 Pro WA lens, the old Beachtek adapter and the little Manfrotto 700RC2 head after all!

Thanks again for an interesting and very informative thread.
Peter

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

George - as nobody has answered directly your query about the 660PRO+900 I'd urge you to try before you buy or get a sale or return deal. This lens does have a hood thread at the front (note I don't call it a filter thread) which could be useful in Africa. Peter's HD7000 was Raynox's answer to those who wanted a full zoom-through, but it 's less powerful and distorts more.

Polarisors are so difficult to replicate in post that I'd admit that it's the one filter you could make good use of in your travels. As their effect is zilch on axis with the sun and max at 90 degrees from the sun you could well find that the pluses outweigh the minuses.

The downsides are:

1) It's very difficult to find multi-coated versions - and would you have bought the 900 if it was plain for all to see that the front element (THE most important one) was completely uncoated?

2) Continuity headaches. Shot A is fine, Turn 90 degrees and shot B looks like a different month, let alone day.

tom.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi Roger....How has your experience with the linear polarizer worked out? There is no end to the number of threads on DVInfo about circular vs. linear polarizers, and no end to the controversy and conflicting information. After three hours of research, I still haven't come to a definitive answer as to whether a linear polarizer will be OK for the TM900, which has three sensors and therefore might (MIGHT) have the kind of technology that will be defeated by a non-circular polarizer.

So, best to go straight to the horse's mouth (if you'll pardon the analogy). Does the linear polarizer work OK on your TM900? No problems with auto-focus or auto-exposure?

Many thanks......George

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

My bad, Roger. I just found your answer in May in this forum. Thanks.....George

Re: Linear versus circular polariser for TM900
 

Bottom of page 11 area for anyone wanting the details...

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks, Tom. This is good advice. Can you clarify your comment about the Raynox hood thread vs. filter thread? Do you mean the lens will take a hood but not a screw-on filter? That's important to me because I already own a B+H 72mm circular polarizer, which itself has an outside thread so that, presumably, I could also attach a hood, so long as I can attach the filter to the lens.

Thanks......George

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Hi George, what I mean about the Raynox having a hood thread and not a filter thread is that tom-here advocated using hoods at all times and in all places but using filters only when *absolutely* necessary.

Your TM900 has a min focal length of 3.45mm (1/8 inch). You add a 0.6x converter and your focal length is now a minuscule 2.27mm. Hold your finger-tips that far apart and marvel. At the same time realise that at those sort of focal lengths *everything* will be in focus, from here to infinity and beyond, almost regardless of the aperture used.

So what does this mean? I'll tell you - it means both sides of your polarising filter will be rendered pretty sharp on your footage. It also means any tiny imperfections on the Rayon's front element are likewise nearly in focus.

This is fine when the front element (filter or lens) are in shadow - well hooded or pointing away from light sources. So yes - you can physically fit your polarisor on top of your Raynox (beware vignetting) on top of your 900. But you've now added 6 extra elements to the what - 15? of the 900, an increase of 45%. The front element is most probably uncoated. Mr Leica would be horrified.

But if it gets you the pictures you want go for it.

tom.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Thanks again, Tom. It's good to know the filter on top of the w/a lens is possible. Since I already own the filter, I'll need only experiment to see if it's actually feasible. I'll report back on my results in due course.
George

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Good footage Mark, I did some yesterday in my garden and the colours over expose somewhat, had the camera in iA so must learn to use the adjustments!

In my footage, yellow & red flowers were really exaggerated and pink and white clothing lost detail so I think I'll try underexposing next time it is very sunny. You say you had a ND filter, is that an aftermarket one or the built in one you are referring to? If aftermarket, what one?

Regarding filters, does adding a CPL or ND filter interfere with the optics in any way; only 1 filter fitted, not both, and what does the ND filter do exactly [don't have time to look it up at the moment - just added that as it came to mind whilst typing so quick replies welcome]!

On a side note, I discovered that my old Panasonic charger for my NVGS5 charges the HS900 batteries too, so a saving for me there :0)

Thanks

Barry

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Your 'side note' Barry made me reach for the panasonic charger that came with my 1999 Panasonic MX300 MiniDV camcorder (it's a VSK0592 if you want to source them) and it too charges my 900's VBN battery quite happily.

All the pins line up which would suggest Panasonic are happy that these two components should be allowed to mate up, even though the BVN stipulates that it must only be charged with the specified charger (and therefore needs to remain on camera, disabling the cam from service).

tom.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

That's good Tom,

My charger is the Panasonic VSK0581, I just happened to look at it when I had the "hang on a minute, I wonder" moment!

To be honest, I was wary at first but it did line up nicely and the charge light came on so I figured it must like it; I let it charge a bit and it was fine. I checked the measurements on the supplied charger and the only difference was that the one supplied has a slightly higher wattage output when charging, not sure what effect that has; maybe takes longer to charge with my old charger perhaps? [not a genius as you may guess by that last statement]!

Thanks

Barry

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

"In my footage, yellow & red flowers were really exaggerated and pink and white clothing lost detail so I think I'll try underexposing next time it is very sunny. You say you had a ND filter, is that an aftermarket one or the built in one you are referring to? If aftermarket, what one?

Regarding filters, does adding a CPL or ND filter interfere with the optics in any way; only 1 filter fitted, not both, and what does the ND filter do exactly"

Yes, then TM900 overexposes in bright light, badly. As the optimal shutter speed is 1/60th of a second, one needs to really block out light. If apertures are closed down that can sometimes lead to diffraction problems. So, an ND filter basically blocks light allowing one to use wider apertures. That's all it does. One should use a good-quality filter. I used :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/120431-REG/B_W_66011250_46mm_102_Neutral.html

In this video, mostly in very bright light, auto mode blew out all flowers. Setting manual iris to eliminate zebra stripes resulted in rich color (1/60th shutter):

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

Mark,

I used a regular polarizing filter on the TM900 and it worked beautifully. I'm sure a CPL will work fine also, although I read several articles that a standard polarizor is preferred if it doesn't interfere with the metering. I didn't see any negative effects and the interferance is typically due to a reflecting mirror as on a DSLR.

Re: The Panasonic TM900 Users Thread
 

This video was made with a cpl, exploiting its main advantage - dealing with reflections. I did not have any exposure issues, and it was really effective in minimizing reflection and glare through the glass cases that are the norm in museums: