Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I agree that many here will invest in the GH5 for the reasons you mention; and others simply for the boast factor. However 4:2:2 isn't just about vLog, if I was doing green screen work and I occasionally do, it can be very useful. I have also become very interested in colour grading and was given a book for Xmas on it so I can pursue this even further. I agree it can be done badly but with practise and skill, it can be done well and the codec will make a difference. I was disappointed last year in trying to colour grade some Trailers to see banding in some shots even with minor grades. It's flat walls and blue skies that suffer badly and the image can quickly fall apart in 8 bit.

Like you, I do not intend to shoot all my Weddings in maximum codec and bitrate. That would be impossible given the number I do. It would be useful for some select shots only in my Wedding work. I wouldn't really use it to balance with other cameras in a multi camera filming. I have enough issues using different lenses where some footage looks better depending on which lens I use. However there are plenty of shots in bright and high contrast situations where I feel footage would benefit from some extra DR and with the GH5's new codecs allow me an easier time in grading to compensate.

Plus I do some Promo videos where a higher codec for good colour grading can be useful. Some clients are after a particular look they've seen in another video and that can be hard to achieve sometimes with 8 bit 4:2:0

I did experiment with vLog last year but gave up as I couldn't grade it to my satisfaction. I've enjoyed more success recently after a thread on the GH4 forum led me to the Panasonic LUT. I was very pleased with the results and how quickly I achieved them with a little further tweaking. The only thing holding me back from benefiting from the extra DR is the weaker codec. So I look forward to the GH5 allowing me to pursue this further.

Vlog L
 

On Vlog L: I agree with you that most of the "graded" footage we see in forums based on Vlog is dispiriting at best.

I have now experimented with using Vlog L on the GH4. I had the same fears as you about the amount of time needed and the inability to match the look with that of other Panasonic cameras (I have the GX85). The answer, however, is the Panasonic-supplied REC709 LUT. In Resolve, for example, you use the LUT as the 3D Output LUT and you see all the clips in REC709 color and contrast. And the clips then look exactly like 'Standard' PP in Panasonic's other cameras. So no problem on color. You then can take advantage of the extra DR - the headroom - to deal with shadows and highs better. But it really is no more work.

The only disadvantage with the GH4 is that when you shoot Vlog, you see the washed out look in the viewfinder/lcd. On the GH5, the REC709 LUT will be applicable in-camera, so you also see what the final output looks like in real time.

Here are three videos I shot in Vlog L and edited using the LUT - no "color grading":




To me the colors are fine, and very much like I get straight from Panasonic's other cameras. What you cannot see is the advantage - that I had plenty of choices about where in the limited REC709 dynamic range I wanted to emphasize.

Btw, my reason for shooting with Vlog L and using the Shogun was to produce HDR video (and it works) , but I am sure your customers are not ready for that, let alone 4K.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

IBIS isn't a new feature in that it's already been seen and used before on cameras at this price level. I already have 2 cameras with it, so naturally I'm not as excited about it as say the codec. That said, I love IBIS and it benefits me enormously. Its just not a new feature to me.

As for advantages, I think I've already covered that in my last post; alas I saw your earlier post after replying to your later one. Simply to add, its more my non Wedding work where I see most of the benefits re codec. Wedding work will just be as and when I think it could be useful and if I have the time for it. However as I do like to employ some colour grading, and have had banding issues in the past when trying to implement even light grading to shots, I think it would give me some advantages if I can learn to recognise the type of shots that would likely need the extra codec.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

For most rec709 shooting, 8bit works great. Even for SLOG-2, 8bit can often do a good job. I have allot of Sony SLOG-2/3 experience and I use them heavily these days. I dont have any V-LOG experience at all. I need to look up what the gamma graph looks like. I dont know if V-LOG has any kind of shoulders or knees mapped into it..

Anyhoo, with SLOG-3, you "can" pull 8bit apart and get banding and other color separation problems on certain scenes. But with 10 bit, you can notch in, stretch, bend, shift and lift almost all you want and you wont see any problems.

For rec.709? I think 10bit is a useless waste of space for that. If your image in camera is 95% what you are going to deliver, 8bit on a solid CODEC is plenty to get you the rest of the way.

My A7s-II? That's not going anywhere. I'm interested in the 6k anamorphic lens capture of the entire vertical and horizontal sensor size, multiple frame rates for slo-mo and no time limit. It's a good B,C or D camera that I can leave on a tripod during a show for 2 hours while I'm getting other angles with other cameras. Chroma keying will be extremely accurate with the GH5.

There are allot of reasons why the GH5 would be a great companion to my A7S-II. Yes, the A7s-II will always be my low light weapon or high dynamic range tool of choice.

CT

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

4:2:2 is a big one for me, having to attach something to my Sony gear is a pain so internal 4:2:2 10bit is a winner.

I guess this is the start now, 4:2:2 as a standard for future hybrid style cameras, exciting times I reckon.

With my Sony A7 cams I don't shoot log and with the GH5 I would problem do the same, I just hope that low light capture won't kill this off for me.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Agree Simon,

422, 10 bit for me is a must. I have held off on the new Olympus and will see what this camera can really offer once on the market. Until then keep working with the tools I own.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I was about to grab a Sony A6500 and will wait now. This GH5 interests me and same as you Paul, I'll keep plugging away with my gear.

The one thing about the GH5 is, it's Broadcast ready in a small package so when I shoot, I won't stand out like I use to with the Big Sony Broadcast cameras.

I've been watching everything on the net from GH4-GH5 and find the images are really murky in the bottom end and highlights tend to blow out fast like a JVC Image.. I know.... there are so many variables going on here, just my observation. The Sonys (from my eye) tends to hold both information a bit better. I would love to do a side by side of a GH5 & Sony A7s or something.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Yup, small would be nice. And it is getting there. So far I am not blown away by the images from the camera, but only time will tell once the production version is out. NAB is only three months away an I plan on going this year.

Will see what else is out and ready to roll for a small camera that can do 422, 10 bit, and hopefully 400Mb/s. And let me go 16mm (full frame equivalent) wide with out distortion.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I'm thinking I might grab the GH5 now after watching and reading everything I can over the weekend, looks great for my needs.

Now, I know nothing about lenses with the Panasonic so can someone advice me on two lenses I should be looking at. I would like a wide and some sort of zoom.

My current lenses are Sony EMount 11-18mm & 18-200mm and I use these in crop mode on the A7s.

Cheers, Simon

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Best all purpose zoom; the panasonic 12-35mm f2.8

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Thanks Noa, Iv'e been looking at that and seems the one. How about something longer? the 35-100 f2.8 is that worth it. I'm so lost with these lenses and the Micro Four Thirds.

Re: Vlog L
 

Hate to break it to ya, but another "4K HDR" YouTube channel just stole some of your videos and are reposting them with monetization enabled.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I don' have the 35-100 so can't speak for that lens, some other lenses worth mentioning that I use at weddings:
Panasonic 42,5mm f1.7: stabilized, very small, light and inexpensive, does feel a bit plasticy and cheap but has the best price/performance you can find for a prime lens. The Panasonic Leica Nocticron 42.5mm f/1.2 is also stabilized, better build and of higher quality but a lot more expensive.
Olympus 75mm f1.8: one of the best lenses in the Olympus line up, "expensive" but a very high quality piece of glass, build like tank.
Olympus 12mm f2.0: Looks like a toy lens because it's so small and light but is one of my best wide lenses, it has blazing fast autofocus when you press the shutterbutton, even when it's dark, stays on the steadicam all day long, it's rare I miss focus with this lens.
Olympus 40-150 f2.8: Again one of Olympus high quality lenses, very solid buildquality, excellent glass and a 80 to 300mm f2.8 full frame equivalent reach which is unheard of for that price, only annoying part about Olympus zoom lenses is that the zoomring turns the other way, manually focusing is a bit tricky as the ring requires a very gentle touch for finetuning your focus. The panasonic 35-100 f2.8 is smaller and lighter but does not have the same reach.
Olympus 9-18mm f4.0-5.6: not very useful in dark venues but for the occasional very wide shot it's a very good performer and again very small and light.

Another lens that is on my wishlist:
Panasonic 7-14mm f4 or the Olympus 7-14mm f2.8, the Olympus is the better lens and has better build quality, is more expensive and the focus rings turns the wrong way which can be annoying but both lenses have a very good performance, none of them will disappoint.

Other that that, about any lens in existence will fit a Panasonic camera, just get the right adapter for it. Also something to think about, if you buy a M4/3 lens you get stuck into that system, those lenses will not fit any other camera that doesn't have a m4/3 mount.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Thanks Noa, fantastic info right there and I appreciate the time and effort for this.

When I sold my 5D I was about to grab a GH4 and that never happened due to the A7s, so I purchased an A7s and lenses, two lenses and been really enjoying this. I have the first A7s so no internal 4K and extra frame rates, It's funny and sad to say this, the A7s I have is now almost old news now, it works great etc... although some clients want the A7s M2. Don't start me on that one....

Anyway, I'm gonna give the GH5 a go, get a basic kit and see how it goes.


Thanks again mate.

Oh, just want yo say that I''m keeping my Sony A7s kit, it works and looks great and don't really want to part with this setup yet.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Hi Simon,

I have been using the Olympus OM-D 1 MK i for a couple years now for my stills. Excellent setup and I do not miss my 5DMK2 or IDX.

The lens collection I have is all Olympus.

7-14, 2.8 Pro; Very nice sharp glass. Little more distortion then I would like, so I do not use that much.

12-40, 2.8 Pro; My go to lens and stays on the camera all the time. Sharp and just right for most shots.

75, 1.8 ED, MSC; fast,sharp, and great for street photography and portraits.

40-150, 2.8 Pro; excellent lens, sharp, very well built as are all of their pro lens. This is a go to when I need any reach. Also have the 1.4 x extender which slows it down but stays pretty sharp.

300, 4.0 Pro, I was thinking of getting this but If I switched to GH5 I would go Panasonic glass to match the OS, unless Olympus OS works in the GH5.

This is a nice set but not sure if they are right for the GH5. As with Olympus OMD-1 MKII the GH5 has 5 axis stabilization and matches it with their new glass. I would think since you are starting out buy the Panasonic glass with the OS in the lens that connects with the GH5, 5 axis stabilization. I do not know if the GH5 will connect with the Olympus OS glass as said above, but that is a big question. I will not believe marketing on this only end users testing. But, I have to say the Olympus lens I own easily match the Canon L glass I use to own in quality.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Thanks Paul, more great advice, really dig that mate, cheers.

My very first camera was a Panasonic and I still have this, I have to let it go as the thing is low res 4x3 but man, I loved those colours outa that thing and that is what has brought me back I think.

Anyway, I'm gonna have one foot in Sony and one in Panasonic for a while as sus it out, things move to fast to invest in a final system these days, well for me anyway, I change every few years. One thing I have learnt to hold onto are, lenses.... keep them, they come in handy when you change you mind and go with a new system.

Cheers, Simon

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Sounds like a good plan Simon,

Keep posting what you find with the GH5. Also in the mind of three cameras two Sony one Panasonic all the time plus my POV's, and stills. Look forward to keeping my gear smaller. Not like the PMW500, F800 days.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I don't expect that the gh5 will be any different from my gx80 or the g80, the sensor stabilization will stabilize any lens you put on it, from what I understand only a few panasonic lenses are currently compatible with panasonics improved dual ibis 2 but that will certainly change with firmware updates, Olympus lenses will not benefit from that but my experience with my Olympus lenses is that the sensor stabilization alone looks like it performs just as well a dual ibis, I can handhold a 75mm (150mm full frame equivalent) very steady.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Noa,

As for Olympus OS lens working on the GH5, we do not know until it is tried. That was my point, I was not going to guess, it has to be tried.

My OMD-1 MKI 5 axis stabilization is excellent. I hand hold the 40-150mm lens at 150 with the 1.4x on all the time with very sharp pictures. And having tried the 300 OS Olympus lens it is a huge step up, much better then just the sensor 5 axis.

I think the 5 axis stabilization is the next step is making hand held shots work. I have owned gimbals, but do not like them and do not use them anymore. Hoping the GH5 and other cameras will keep pushing the technology of 5 axis options.

Fun to follow this camera, and see who takes it one more step.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

ah ok, you mean a stabilized olympus lens, I was not even aware Olympus had stabilized lenses. The info I have read so far is that currently it only works well with a selection of panasonic stabilized lenses

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

No worry, Olympus came out with this 300mm lens and will be adding more to match their OMD-EM1 MKII.

Amazing piece of glass.

M.Zuiko ED 300mm f4.0 IS PRO | Olympus

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I'll come back when the GH5 turns up here in Australia. I'm seeing almost 3k for the GH5 in Australia, man we get hit here.

Keeping in small these days is a must now Paul, my back is stuffed after using shoulder mounts for the last 15yrs.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Cool, look forward to your input.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

$3600 tax in with the XLR adapter here in Canada, but i'll most likely get one, after the 400Mbs update :)

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

One thing we do need to check up for this camera: can it actually record the promised PCM audio rates to file or is it recording to AAC? The XLR adapter touts 96khz/24bit, but can that actually be recorded to file?

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

The pdf presentation ( page 39 ) says LPCM recording to MOV only when XLR1 is attached, so no MP4 or AVCHD is my understanding from that. Audio will record to MOV and MP4 except at 100Mbps which is then AAC ( page 25 ). Looks like AVCHD does not have a LPCM option only Dolby AC3 or AAC.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

There must be a limitation on 96khz/24bit within the MOV only limitation... Might be troublesome for some NLEs like Magix Vegas which probably won't know what to do with a GH5 MOV until the software is patched.

I'm willing to bet you can't do 10bit 4:2:2 internal and 96khz/24bit PCM at the same time.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Table on page 25 shows High Resolution audio being available MOV only for 10 bit 4:2:2 . Remember 10 bit 4:2:2 UHD 60P is not available for internal recording and is only on the HDMI output to something like a Shogun Inferno. All UHD 60P internal recording is 8 bit 4:2:0. However 30P UHD is available for internal recording at 10 bit 4:2:2 in MOV with High Resolution audio with the second announced firmware update in the summer you then have a choice of 150Mbps Long GOP or 400Mbps all Intra. Also MP4 is always AAC. AVCHD is always Dolby AC3.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Ah, so you can't use 96khz/24bit over HDMI for 10bit 4:2:2 60p. In the very least they should allow 48khz/24bit for that mode.

In fact, I think the HDMI should in the very least do 2ch 48khz/24bit.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

NO. You cannot do UHD 60P 10 bit 4:2:2 internally at all it is always 8 bit 4:2:0 internally. UHD 60P only available on HDMI in 10 bit 4:2:2 and then only if you do not record internally. Both these option do include the high resolution audio. You can have HD 1920 x 1080 60P 10bit 4:2:2 with high resolution audio internal after the summer firmware update. Either 100Mbps LongGOP or 200 Mbps All Intra. You should download the 86 page pdf as it has all the information. Embargo was lifted on 4 Jan. I think I got it from a thread on DVXuser forum.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Yeah, that's what I meant, 96khz/24bit over HDMI in the HDMI only mode for the camera.

Now it's all up to the Shogun Inferno to support that over it's HDMI input. No SSD recorder on the market currently supports 96khz/24bit over HDMI.

Edit: Just saw the PDF. It says (GH5 MOV only) for the 96khz/24bit mode on the XLR1. No indication whether that can be passed using HDMI in the HDMI only mode.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

LPCM is only MOV. The HDMI output appears only to have a restriction at UHD 60P 10bit 4:2:2 with no internal recording. Also the Inferno over HDMI can record 8 channels 48Khz at 24bit so I am sure it can manage 2 at 96khz 24bit. I cannot see a spec on this though. Will have to find more info on that as that is likely the setup I will get.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

will be waiting for the new canon 6dii, love canons colours and the auto focus better than Panasonic especially the dual auto focus. nothing can beat the 70d/80d, so full frame with 4k coming will be sound, just saying thats my preference.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I pre ordered a GH5 so when this turns up I'll let ya know about audio.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

With the exception of orchestral type classical music where more than one pieces of musical instruments are played for the recording I think 48 KHz, 16-bit LPCM would be fine. From my experience, the type of microphone, the placement, the quality of the preamp (either on board the camera or external) and not least the skill of the soundman in the more difficult shooting conditions, make so much more difference in sound than other factors. In most cases you can tell the differences in terms of audio characteristics/quality from those recording hardware by listening to carefully encoded MP3 files or AAC files (such as on YouTube) using adequate monitoring devices such as a good pair of headphones or carefully set up sound monitoring system with various speakers for anything more elaborate than a single mono or stereo tracks.

Just hope that optional XLR adapter comes with an adequate built in preamp that does at least on par with those built into their pro-level XLR camcorders.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

Thanks for that insight. However what makes you think the 6D mark ii will have full frame 4K when even the 5D Mark IV doesn't have this. Instead making a pigs breakfast out of its 4K implementation. Colours and auto focus are indeed Canons strength, which is alas the only good thing you can say about their video features in their DSLRS.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

+ you can be sure Canon will cripple the camera in other video related area's to protect higher end models, like give it just enough moire, make the image softer or leave out functionality that is critical for video use. For video they have made clear that you need to get into their c-line of camera's to get everything you need.
Not only Canon does this, Panasonic also cripples anything below the GH5 just enough to make you want their flagship, like unusable audio on the gx85, no headphone in to monitor your sound on the g80 or make button integration or placement just awkward enough so it can become it bit frustrating.
But that doesn't mean you can't do great things with these camera's, you just need to work around their limitations and get the best out of their strengths. For the canon that will be autofocus and color and for panasonic ibis and the small formfactor.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I also like Canon's video image but to be realistic the best you can hope for on the next 6DII or whatever is maybe a flipout screen which is a defining feature of most Canon's lower end DSLRs to facilitate video shooting. Other than that it can't do better than the 5DIV that traditionally has always sat one level up above the 6Dx in price and performance.

Panasonic has a simpler job with the GH5. They can go full tilt with it within the limitation of sensor size and form factor because there is no longer anything like the dead AF100 class of cameras to protect. Other things they are offering in 4K are geared towards different, and mostly higher end types of video shooters.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

The new 6dii is heavily reported to be having 4k but if it comes great if not i will still get it, flip out screen, dual auto focus, touch screen. full frame, that will do me just fine.

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 

I think heavily rumoured rather than reported; where previously the rumour was that it was not getting 4K, subsequent and more recent rumours have suggested it may well be getting it in some capacity. This could mean at best heavily cropped as per the 5D mark iv and not using the fullframe sensor. It could also theoretically mean a time restriction such as seen in the Fujifilm X-T2 where it has a 10 min limit. Just speculation mind.

Of course, not saying the new 6D Mark II won't meet your needs. Just that my own list 10 bit 4:2:2 recording, 4K at 50p, 5 axis stabilisation for smooth hand held shooting, Log Profiles, focus peaking, highlights monitoring, dual card slot, and non cropped 4K so that I get the full field of view from my best lenses.

Yep whilst pretty demanding of me, the above will definitely do me just fine. :)