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-   -   New Panasonic GH5 Official (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-lumix-s-g-gf-gh-gx-series/533370-new-panasonic-gh5-official.html)

Dylan Couper January 4th, 2017 01:15 PM

New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I'll spoil the read... no it doesn't shoot 8k, nor 6k, nor 4.5k. But pretty sweet 4k!

News: Panasonic shows LUMIX GH5 at CES2017 at DV Info Net


Panasonic LUMIX GH5 DSLM camera featuring the World’s First 4K 60p/50p[1] and 4K 30p 4:2:2 10- bit[2] Video Recording Function
Panasonic once again pushes still and video boundaries with the LUMIX GH5

Las Vegas, NV (January 4, 2017) - Panasonic has today announced the LUMIX GH5, the latest flagship model of LUMIX G DSLM cameras based on the Micro Four Thirds system standard. The new camera delivers a high-end, hybrid performance to photo enthusiasts and professional videographers looking to capture moments in 4K 60p/50p video and 6K PHOTO.

Defying all the general concepts of what a mirrorless camera can do, the LUMIX GH Series has reached a number of milestones with this introduction. Packing a host of innovative advancements in picture quality, response and performance into an unimaginably small-sized body, the new LUMIX GH5 opens the door to a new stage of photographic and cinematographic culture.

Unprecedented Picture Quality in the History of LUMIX Cameras

The LUMIX GH5 is able to achieve high-quality images with real-life details through excellent resolution, image rendering and color reproduction. Its new Digital LIVE MOS Sensor increases the pixel count by 25% compared to the GH4, from 16.05 to 20.3 megapixels, while also removing the low-pass filter.

The camera also comes with a new image processor Venus Engine, which achieves improvement especially in natural texture expression. The engine’s Multi-pixel Luminance Generation renders clear, sharp images by referring to a 9x larger area of pixel information during the de-mosaic process for precise detail reproduction. With Intelligent Detail Processing, the characteristic of every single pixel is analyzed to detect whether the pixel is located at a flat, detail or edge part of the picture. Optimum processing according to the characteristic of each pixel is then applied. This results in high-precision yet natural images with stunning detail suppressing false colors at its edges.

Also, Three Dimensional Color Control detects not only hue and saturation, but also brightness, and applies optimum control according to the value of each factor. This achieves rich color reproduction from shadows to highlights of the image. The conventional Multi Process NR (Noise Reduction) is upgraded to High Precision Multi Process NR. It boasts 4x the noise identification accuracy compared to the previous engine and preserves details even after the noise reduction process. As a result, photos can be clearly shot even at high sensitivity ISO values of up to 25,600.

The LUMIX GH5 also incorporates the 5-axis Dual I.S. (Image Stabilizer) 2[3], which suppresses blurring in more powerful and advanced ways for both photo and video recording, including 4K video. Combining an O.I.S. (Optical Image Stabilizer, 2-axis) and B.I.S. (Body Image Stabilizer, 5-axis), it compensates for larger movements which were conventionally uncontrollable. The LUMIX GH5’s high-precision gyro sensor controls both the O.I.S. and B.I.S. compensation by studying the focal length and shooting conditions, making it possible to use a max. 5-stop slower shutter speed[4]. This is highly beneficial not only for wide-angle and telephoto shots, but also in adverse situations, such as at night-time or when shooting with one hand.

The world’s first DSLM camera that meets professional quality standards

The LUMIX GH Series created an epoch-making industry sensation by achieving outstanding video recording performance with advanced features that meet the needs of professional quality levels and standards.

With the LUMIX GH5, the signal readout speed has been accelerated by max 1.7x in the new Digital Live MOS Sensor, and the new Venus Engine processes signals at max 1.3x higher speed. This synergy realizes 4K 60p/50p ultra high-definition, smooth, video recording for the first time in a DSLM camera. It is also capable of internal 4:2:2 / 10-bit video recording, which is the color subsampling commonly used for film production, for even more faithful color reproduction[5].

The high-sensitivity MOS Sensor and Venus Engine effectively suppress rolling shutter distortion and realize high-speed readout of full digital signals. This ensures an outstandingly high image quality for every single frame. In addition, the focal length in video recording is kept the same as that in photo shooting (no cropping).

Users can freely choose between MOV, MP4, AVCHD Progressive and AVCHD formats at a variety of frame rates, and there is no recording time limit for both FHD and 4K video. Professional users working globally can set the system frequency to 59.94Hz, 50.00Hz or 24.00Hz.

While ‘Cinelike D’ and ‘Cinelike V’, which have similar gamma setting characteristics for film production, are available in Photo Style for video recording, the LUMIX GH5 also provides ‘Like 709’ for compatibility with HDTV. A paid software upgrade to support V-LogL video recording is also available.

In response to requests from professional users, the LUMIX GH5 comes with a Waveform Monitor and Vector Scope. It also embeds SMPTE-compliant Time Code either in Rec Run or Free Run count-up methods, which makes it easy to synchronize multiple video footage or sound sources in the post production workflow. Luminance levels can be selected between 64-1023 / 64-940 / 0-1023 (10-bit). Synchro Scan mode suppresses flicker and Color Bars (SMPTE / EBU / ARIB Standard) are also available.

New AF system with advanced DFD Technology never misses a once-in-a-lifetime moment

The LUMIX GH5 comes with a newly improved Depth from Defocus[6] and Contrast AF technology, which not only calculates the distance to the subject by evaluating two images with different sharpness levels, but also analyzes the form, size and even motion of the subject comprehensively. Thanks to the new Venus Engine, the time for measuring the distance to the subject is 6x faster, while factoring the distance into in-plane or in-depth is 2x faster.

The speed of sensor drive during auto focusing in photo shooting mode has been increased to 480 fps, which is 2x faster than that of the GH4. Consequently, the LUMIX GH5 realizes ultra-high-speed AF of approximately 0.05 sec [7] and 12 (AFS) / 9 (AFC) fps high-speed burst shooting using a mechanical shutter in full resolution. By analyzing every single frame precisely, it achieves a maximum 200% higher precision frame detection with minimum motion detection error for higher tracking tolerance against moving subjects.

For even more precise focusing, the number of focus areas has been increased from 49 to 225. Users can create a group of focus areas depending on the composition and can control it easily with a new joystick located on the thumb position, without taking your eyes off the subject. This is possible even when using the LVF or releasing the finger off the shutter button.

If focus is not exactly as the user intended when the shutter is pressed, the LUMIX GH5’s Post Focus function [8] enables users to select the specific focus point even after shooting – particularly helpful in situations like macro shooting where severe focusing is required. In addition, the camera also features a Focus Stacking function. Taking a single macro photo with specific areas in focus can sometimes be difficult, Focus Stacking enables users to take multiple images of the same frame with different focus points. You can then combine them into one image with the defocus as you like.

The LUMIX GH5’s new 6K PHOTO[9] function makes it possible to capture unmissable moments at 30 fps by extracting the frame with the best timing out of the 6K burst file (in 3:2 or 4:3 aspect) to save as an approximately 18-megapixel equivalent high resolution photo. 4K PHOTO has also been upgraded enabling 60 fps high speed capture in approximately 8-megapixel equivalent resolution. In 6K/4K PHOTO, three exclusive modes are available to choose from depending on the situation; 6K/4K Burst, 6K/4K Burst (Start/Stop) and 6K/4K Pre-burst.

By compensating the signal information between the frames, the Venus Engine makes it possible to apply Post Recording Refinement over the pictures to correct distortion and reduce noise when playing back or cutting images out of the 6K/4K burst file. As a result, the picture quality of 6K/4K PHOTO shot at high shutter speed in high sensitivity or those shot in panning are dramatically improved.

High mobility in rugged design for heavy field use

To be tough enough to withstand even heavy field use, the LUMIX GH5’s main structure is composed of a magnesium alloy, full die-cast front/rear frame. Secure construction and the sealing of every joint, dial, and button makes the camera not only splash/dust-proof, but also freeze-proof down to -10 degrees Celsius.

The LUMIX GH5 is equipped with a double SD Memory Card slot compatible with high-speed, high capacity UHS-II for the first time in the LUMIX digital cameras. Users can flexibly choose the recording method either in Relay Rec, Backup Rec or Allocation Rec.

The LUMIX GH5 has a large LVF (Live View Finder) with a stunningly high magnification ratio of approximately 1.52x / 0.76x (35mm camera equivalent). The high-precision, high-speed OLED display features 3,680K-dot high resolution and 100% field of view. Adopting a static-type touch control system, the 3.2-inch free-angle rear screen in 3:2 aspect with 1,620K-dot high resolution achieves approximately 100% field of view.

Finally, the shutter unit is durable for approximately 200,000 releases.

Expandability, optional accessories, other features

The LUMIX GH5 integrates Bluetooth 4.2 and Wi-FiŽ 5GHz (IEEE 802.11ac) connectivity to offer a more flexible shooting experience and instant image sharing with easy operation.
The LUMIX GH5 is compatible with the new Battery Grip DMW-BGGH5. By using two batteries, one in the camera and the other in the grip, the DMW-BGGH5 extends the battery life for longer time shooting.
The optionally available microphone adaptor DMW-XLR1 is a plug-in type adaptor for XLR microphone to record high quality stereo sound.
To save power, the camera automatically enters sleep mode after detecting the eye is off the LVF sensor. Various shutter systems are available with the LUMIX GH5: A mechanical shutter with maximum 1/8000 sec, an electronic-first curtain shutter with maximum 1/2000 sec which can be used with flash while suppressing the shutter shock, and an electronic shutter without shutter shock with maximum 1/6000 sec. Firmware updates will add: Full HD 4:2:2 10bit video recording capability (scheduled for April 2017); 400Mbps 4:2:2 10bit All-Intra video recording in 4K 30p/25p/24p; Full HD, high resolution video recording in Anamorphic mode; Hybrid Log Gamma in Photo Style mode which enables popular 4K HDR video recording and USB tethering (all scheduled for second half of 2017).
The Lumix GH5 will be available (body only) in late March for $1999.99. For more information please visit LumixLounge.com. Panasonic is proud to share that the GH5 is a CES 2017 Innovation Award Honoree.

Alan Henderson January 4th, 2017 01:17 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Hands-on preview from Imaging Resource:

Panasonic GH5 Review: Hands-On Preview

Noa Put January 4th, 2017 01:40 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
This one shot with the gh5 looks very nice:


Cliff Totten January 4th, 2017 01:46 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
My God.....this is a dagger in Sony's heart.

4:2:2, 10bit internal recording at 400Mbp/s?...full size HDMI, dual SDXC cards and no recording time limit? Holy crap!!

"Could" Sony technically match this?....absolutely. However, Sony doesnt "want" to match this. To get these specs they make you buy an FS7. Sony's XDCAM group would NEVER allow it's Alpha division to build a camera to compete with this GH5....not with those specs. They would protest that vigorously at the boardroom meeting table at Sony HQ.

So....this GH5 is a major industry disrupter. How will the others deal with this Panasonic attack? Wow.

Who makes this Micro 4/3rd sensor? Are they buying Sony's new Micro 4/3 chip that they are selling? If so, this is verry odd because Sony doesnt blindly sell its sensors. Sony contractually required their buyer to state the specs of camera that its going into. If Sony doesnt agree, they reufuse to sell that sensor.

"IF" it really is that new Sony chip, that means they were fully aware this was comming down the pike and agreed to it. Wow!

What does Sony have up its sleeve???

CT

P.s...its being said that the GH5 is using Sony's IMX269 model image sensor. Wow....this camera is shocking for both Panasonic AND Sony. If Sony does sell its IMX269 to Panny, they must have some plan to fight the GH5 with "something" new on their side.

John McCully January 4th, 2017 01:59 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Sony no longer has their heart in this market, they won't feel a thing! I would not be at all surprised to see a 'For Sale' sign on their door any time soon.

Cheers.

Noa Put January 4th, 2017 02:11 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Yeah, also who cares what Sony will do in response to this, let them have their camera that can shoot at moonlight. :)

Ronald Jackson January 4th, 2017 02:43 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Still not a proper video camera. I wish Panasonic would do a 4K upgrade to their AF-101.

Ron

Noa Put January 4th, 2017 02:55 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

I wish Panasonic would do a 4K upgrade to their AF-101
I have a feeling the GH line is a much more lucrative market which most likely will outsell any af101 update. That might be a reason why Panasonic doesn't feel the need to update.

Ron Evans January 4th, 2017 04:04 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I think they have been quite smart. If you want long zoom lenses buy the camcorder DVX200, UX180. If changing lenses is OK then the GH5 actually outperforms all the camcorders I think. If you are happy with a 5:1 zoom I expect the stock lens will be just great. The GH5, a couple of lenses, the XLR unit and an Atomos Inferno would be a very nice setup.

Ron Evans

Dylan Couper January 4th, 2017 08:12 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Yup, would be a total Sony pro camera killer, except for one teeeeeeny tiny mistake a long time ago by Panny.
MFT.
Small sensors don't sell pro cameras anymore.

Cliff Totten January 4th, 2017 09:27 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I partially agree with you on this about sensor size. However, large full frame sensors are not considered "pro" either. (this is coming from an A7s-II lover.) The only real "pro" size has been super35.

Also, if the GH5 truely does use Sony's IMX269 Exmor sensor, that sucker is going to look VERY good for it's size. I also think that, yes, people care about professional ergonomics but they also care about the "end-result" just as much, if not more.

With that CODEC and sensor combo? I really think it's capable challenging ANY camera below 1600 ISO.

No, in low light (high ISO) the A7s-II will smoke the GH5. 10bit 4:2:2 at any CODEC bitrate wont help the GH5 at all in low light against a full frame beast like the A7s-II.

I do think the GH5 is an "Oh $hit!!" moment for every other company in the industry. This camera is going to brutally twist everybody's arm on opening up very high end features on low priced cameras.

The GH5 is the proverbial gun to Sony and Canon's head. And this die-hard Sony fanboy just pre-ordered the GH5 15 min ago! (what a weird feeling that was)

CT

Tom Roper January 4th, 2017 11:23 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I pre-ordered one too. The thing is, it doesn't ship for 3 more months followed by up to 4 months more before all the promised firmware updates are available, VLogL costing $100.

So why does it take so long for the firmware after the camera is already shipped?

Also, pay attention. This doesn't look like a 14 stop DR camera. Hard to know for sure, but the videos of the ice carving while clean had major highlight clipping in some scenes with crushed blacks devoid of detail in the shadows.

Cliff Totten January 5th, 2017 12:15 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
My guess would be 11-12 stops with V-LOG?? All footage today is supposedly with a beta firmware.

No way to know until folks get the production GH5 on some charts. I do have high hopes for it but I'm guessing it wont be as good as, let's say an A6500 or something.

Man,..I just cant wrap my head around this: "IF" that is the Sony IMX269 chip....why would they sell it to Panny for use in a fully loaded 10bit camera with a heavy duty internal CODEC like the GH5?? It just seems like Sony is shooting itself in the foot on this one. It's bizarre!

I dont get it.

Pete Cofrancesco January 5th, 2017 12:51 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Wow Panasonic really included everything anyone could have hoped for: 422 internal, dual card, 60p, etc

It's an over reaction to proclaim the demise of Sony. MFT and FF have their respective users and as impressive as the GH5 there will still be a market for full frame cameras like the A7.

John McCully January 5th, 2017 01:18 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I don't think it is too complicated. Sony is an electronics focused business organization and they have experienced less than satisfactory profitability of recent times. That can not continue. I see their core competency as manufacturing and the closer they get to retail the less profitable they become. It makes sense for them, obviously, to focus on sensor manufacturing and leave the downstream action as that area is outside their core competency. For instance the "BionzX" processor was, as I understand it, a purchased chunk of electronics and not manufactured in house.

One thing they did NOT do is shoot themselves in the foot. You don't get it Cliff but you may rest assured they do. Understand their decision making behavior is driven by profitability and the potential lack thereof. It's not that complicated. The exact details as in the product management team's discussion and decisions we can only guess but a bunch of gun-happy-itchy-trigger-fingered-foot-shooters they are decidedly not, in my opinion.

Their current behavior is aimed at preventing the demise of the corporation and not competing where they can not profitably do so is focused in that direction.

My opinion - a long term Sony fanboy too :-)

James Manford January 5th, 2017 03:41 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I know this isn't a priority to most but i'm also chuffed the GH5 can do 1080p at 180fps. Isn't that the same as the Sony FS7 ?

Dan Gunn January 5th, 2017 08:14 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Crap! Now I gotta rethink what I am gonna buy for a new camera. I was still looking at the Z150 but now.....

Gary Huff January 5th, 2017 09:00 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
A Panasonic rep has stated for the record you will have to repurchase Vlog L for the GH5, even if you already own it for the GH4. If this also is a hint that Panasonic will charge for 10-bit 422 internal, the Waveform, Vectorscope, and LUT abilities (all in addition to the Vlog L purchase), would that be a dealbreaker? Would a $999 upgrade cost be a dealbreaker to add those capabilities?

Gary Huff January 5th, 2017 09:01 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten (Post 1925830)
My guess would be 11-12 stops with V-LOG?? All footage today is supposedly with a beta firmware.

It's the exact same Vlog L as on the GH4, so yes, video will be 11.5-12 stops.

Cliff Totten January 5th, 2017 08:14 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John McCully (Post 1925834)
I don't think it is too complicated. Sony is an electronics focused business organization and they have experienced less than satisfactory profitability of recent times. That can not continue. I see their core competency as manufacturing and the closer they get to retail the less profitable they become. It makes sense for them, obviously, to focus on sensor manufacturing and leave the downstream action as that area is outside their core competency. For instance the "BionzX" processor was, as I understand it, a purchased chunk of electronics and not manufactured in house.

One thing they did NOT do is shoot themselves in the foot. You don't get it Cliff but you may rest assured they do. Understand their decision making behavior is driven by profitability and the potential lack thereof. It's not that complicated. The exact details as in the product management team's discussion and decisions we can only guess but a bunch of gun-happy-itchy-trigger-fingered-foot-shooters they are decidedly not, in my opinion.

Their current behavior is aimed at preventing the demise of the corporation and not competing where they can not profitably do so is focused in that direction.

My opinion - a long term Sony fanboy too :-)

I get Sony's Semiconductor group and their desire to sell as many image sensors as they can. I believe that are a very profitable asset within the Sony umbrella.

But what about the rest of Sony imaging? I dont know this, but I have to suspect that the Handycam brand is not doing too well but Alpha and XDCAM ARE doing well? Alpha models are everywhere and I have to believe E mount lens sales are hot too. I seriously doubt that they are losing money as a whole on Alpha cameras and pro XDCAM/CineAlta camcorders today. No?

This GH5 is a massive assault on Sony's Alpha brand and partially on XDCAM too. And,...."IF" Sony really is selling Panny that IMX269 sensor, than they are assisting Panasonic in this brutal attack on Alpha+XDCAM.

Normally, I dont think it's any harm to sell chips to competing companies because Sony has always managed to compete very well against other companies that buy Sony tech. Mostly because other companies keep their camera's within "normal" or "traditional" industry limitations. In my opinion, Sony still out classes those "other guys" cameras anyway. However,...this time, it's DIFFERENT! What Panasonic has done with the GH5 is NOT typical. They WAY overloaded it with specs that are off the carts for a $2000 camera. Did Sony just give Panasonic the dagger to stab Alpha with?? We both know that Sony will absolutely refuse to build an Alpha with these GH5 specs...so there you go! The Sony Alpha group is just going to lie there bleeding. Does Sony Semiconductor group "really" not care??

How much money can Sony make on image sensor sales to Panasonic? I have no clue! Maybe a TON of money? I guess it must be allot more money being made on that side over the money lost on Alpha and XDCAM sales because of the GH5? Are image sensor profits on the GH5's Sony IMX269 sensor sales really "that" high?....WOW!,.."that" high????

If that's the case than you could be completely right. Maybe Sony will stab Alpha in the back to cash-in on Panasonic's payment checks?? It's like Kane killing Able...cold blooded, dirty style. Ouch!

I admittedly have no friggin' clue. Just a bunch of interesting questions that can never be publicly answered by either company.

CT

Ron Evans January 5th, 2017 09:09 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Panasonic's recent cameras have been a real threat to Sony's lineup. The FZ2500 is a very capable camera with ND filters that Sony took off the new competing RX camera, the UX180 and HC-X1 have no Sony competition at all. I have been a Sony fan for a long time and all my current cameras are Sony but am seriously considering changing most to Panasonic. The WiFi app for the Panasonic stills cameras is a lot more functional than PlayMemories which really does not work that well with the Sony handycams I have . I wanted an improved version of the FDR-AX1 I have and Panasonic has produced not one but three possible replacements. Two with 20x zoom ( UX180 and HC-X1 ) etc and the GH5 with other attributes. The FZ2500 also challenges my AX100 with better WiFi app for remote control. If Sony had put UHD 60P on the FS5 I might well have bought it likewise UHD60P on the Z150. I feel they wanted to protect the XQD cards for the higher frame rates in 4K and limit UHD for SD cards to 30P to create a differentiation to the FS7. I think they totally missed the boat and now will have some problem catching up without causing some problems with their current lineup.

Ron Evans

Cliff Totten January 5th, 2017 09:35 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I have noticed all the things you listed too. Yeah,..I gotta sadly say that I agree. (Except for the leaving Sony part. I'm not ready for that yet)

I owned an FS5. I used it on two jobs and sold it when Sony Kumamoto went down and they stopped FS5 production. I sold it for 800 more than what I bought it for. Although it has brilliant ergonomics, I was really disappointed in the way Sony adjusted it's internal CODEC and the camera was just way too noisy for me using SLOG. It's older sensor cant compete with today's more sophisticated Alpha sensors. I'm sure it's fine for many folks but just not for me. I think they went too far in protecting the FS7 from the FS5 in terms of image quality.

I dont know what is going on with Sony but Panasonic is on a roll these days. They are suddenly producing significantly better and better cameras and I have a hunch that Sony is helping them do it. If that's true, I hope that Sony is charging them allot for their services. I "sort of" suspect that Sony is selling Panasonic their full pixel read out, oversampling and scaling circuits too. Panasonic used to do mostly pull 1:1 pixel read-outs and now, suddenly they are doing oversampling right when they allegedly start buying Sony sensors? I dont know... I really dont.

This GH5 will be historic. I think it will be a camera that we all look to 20 years from now when we say..."The GH5!,... that was the one that FORCED everybody to change everything!". I gotta give Panny props here. I tip my hat to them, big time.

If Alpha ever does the unthinkable and gives 10bit, 4:2:2 internal recording with no time limit to an A7s/r-III or an A7000, they will be doing it under EXTREME stress with a gun pointed to their head.

That gun is named "GH5".

CT

Pete Cofrancesco January 5th, 2017 09:44 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Firstly I don't have any clue Sony's financials but then again no one else here does either. I can't help chuckle at the over reactions. The GH5 is going to put out of business a giant multinational company who makes all manner of electronic devices including the sensor to the GH5. The sold the more they make. That's what you call a win win.

Honestly I think Sony could include the features of the gh5 without worrying about undercutting their other cameras because no matter how good it's still a dslr with all the disadvantages that are inherent in that form factor. There could also be a engineering hindrance that limits what can be done with a full sensor.

On a related note while the GH5 added features sound great how is all that stuff going to effect the battery life or cause heat related problems? Is this going to be the case when people get what they want then complain about the consequences that come with it?

Right now the GH5 looks great but I've never seen a camera people couldn't find fault with. Btw, Sony isn't the only company who with holds features to not under cut their higher end line. Look at Canon C100 they could include internal 422 but then who would buy C300?

John McCully January 5th, 2017 09:49 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I certainly am not privy to the goings on at the top of the Sony Corporation but over the last couple of years a few clues, if not outright blatant declarations, have appeared. Perhaps one of the most interesting appeared in the Wall Street Journal Updated Feb. 18, 2015 9:34 a.m. ET. "The electronics giant will focus on growth sectors like movies, music, games and image sensors".

That is a clear unequivocal statement of long term strategic direction. There will be no emotional back-stabbing, no brutal attacks, no massive assaults, no lying there bleeding but rather a clean highly targeted series of unemotional surgical operations conducted as painlessly as possible for the human beings involved. It will not be a quick fix - the Sony ship is too big to just spin around with a quick flick of the tiller - but a well managed drawn out decisive return to meeting shareholder profit needs.

Our favorite gear, video cameras and suchlike, are not mentioned above. You know what that means.

I am prepared to wager as many cold ones as we may consume during one sitting, or two, deliverable at the Jolly Roger Pub in the Waikawa Marina that Sony Corporation will exit (sell off) part or all of the camera business (the business unit recently split off) and not look over their shoulder, and that will happen before the end of 2017.

I will win the wager and you shall indeed find the location and the occasion quite agreeable :-)

I might record the event on my recently acquired Lumix GH5 in 4K 60P to dual cards, one for you and one for me.

Cheers...

Cliff Totten January 5th, 2017 10:58 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Is Sony's camera group not making any money? Are they losing money for Sony? It seems to me that even if XDCAM, CineAlta, Alpha and Handycam were only profiting 1 million dollars after all it's bills were paid, that would STILL be a good asset for Sony to have in it's holdings. (Even if it were only breaking even.)

How in the world "could" Sony even sell it? If another company were to buy it, how would they deal with the brands themselves? Like,...would they rebrand everything with "Samsung XDCAM" or "Samsung Alpha" or "Samsung CineAlta"??

I just dont think that any of Sony's brands could live, survive or thrive outside of Sony's infrastructure, R&D and close support from Sony Semiconductor group. If another company bought it and hired those good Sony managers and engineers away, the entire thing would flop dead in a year or two.

Could GM sell it's "Chevy" brand to another company? Could that brand survive outside of GM, managed by another company? I seriously doubt it. I suspect "XDCAM", "CineAlta", "Alpha" and "Handycam" either live under Sony or die completely inside the company. There is no other place it can live.

I gotta laugh,...this idea is super crazy.

I only know one thing for certain. Because of this GH5, in the near future, if your new camera doesn't have 10bit 4:2:2 and 60p?....your camera wont sell very well, it at all!

As bad as every camera company will want to,...it's too late now, nobody can put this GH5 10bit genie back into the bottle. Sony and Canon can't cover their eyes and ears and "wish" it away either.

CT

John McCully January 5th, 2017 11:23 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
[QUOTE=Cliff Totten;1925915
I gotta laugh,...this idea is super crazy.
CT[/QUOTE]

Happens all the time. For instance Sony recently sold 'Sony Vegas Software to Magix and so now we have Magix Vegas Software. I have personally experienced one such huge event which began as a joint venture - both companies spun off their similar product departments - and kept both parent companies names in the title. It worked just fine. In due course one of the parent companies purchased the spin-off and renamed it. No problem (Well, there were problems but nothing unmanageable).

What's wrong with 'Nikon a6300' (other than the overheating issue :-))

However, in today's fast paced environment what wonderful and unique cam product line does Sony have to offer, really? Sony Corporation might need to bite a few bullets soon.

Pete Cofrancesco January 5th, 2017 11:49 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Sony makes the a6300 not Nikon. Most if not all mirror less cameras are prone to some extent to overheating including the Gh4.

John McCully January 5th, 2017 11:59 PM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Sorry Pete, I was being way too whimsical. I was suggesting Nikon might purchase the Sony cam product line and rename the Sony a6300 as the Nikon a6300. Couldn't resist the overheating gibe just to keep things in perspective :-). Just a joke...

Cliff Totten January 6th, 2017 12:01 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Selling Vegas was easy for Sony. They never built it, they bought it from Sonic Foundry. I dont think they ever cared about the software guys in Wisconson so they dumped it with no attachment. (Sony is a very proud Japanese centric company) Sony also dropped VAIO computers brand like a hot potato with no attachment or love lost on that property either. I even think Sony will dump their cell phones to with no tears whatsoever.

Sony cameras are a different animal all together. They are EXTREMELY proud of their camera/camcorder brands in Sony Japan HQ and all over the world. Those three Sony camera brands are deep rooted today in the company. Even the CEO Kazuo Hirai at CES this week told us all how cameras are a deep "personal passion" for him and that he will "personally continue to drive Sony to be your ONLY camera brand of choice".

I'm pretty sure Sony has enormous confidence in their cameras and they would never dump that the way they did with those other brands. I think they will re-market their fleet with less models to protect from each other (Like Panasonic) and add more features into each.

Panasonic can give a GH5 everything. Why? because there is no AF-101 above it to hurt. The next product up from their GH5 is Varicam....so the GH5 is all alone where it sits....nice and comfortable with PLENTY of marketing room to breathe.

Nah,...I'm betting Sony cameras stay where they are but with a new marketing strategy. NAB is coming up in a couple of months. Let's see what Sony does. A7s-III and a new 4k ENG camera above the Z150?

Sony's problem is not their technology or their engineering ability. No way, there's nobody better. Their problem is their will to cripple their products to protect the next highest model. If Sony fixes that?....woah, they could kill everything and everybody take over the entire industry. (yes, I'm exaggerating..just a little bit...lol)

CT

p.s. Hell, if Sony just started adding SLOG-2 to existing ENG camera firmware, that would be a fast, low cost turbo charger. Especially for the Z150 which we know can do it with no trouble because the RX10-II does SLOG-2.

Noa Put January 6th, 2017 01:55 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco (Post 1925911)
I can't help chuckle at the over reactions.

+1

Sony still has their full frame, low light, better autofocussing and eventhough not as effective their sensor stabilization, that's all they need to not being bothered by the GH5, every new model they bring out will be a slight improvement over the previous one. The C100 mark 2 is also a good example that it's not all about the codec, I"m sure those owners won't all jump ship to get a GH5.

Gabe Strong January 6th, 2017 02:34 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Sony, the company who came out with the A6500 when the ink was hardly dry on the A6300
is 'done' making cameras? Not sure how much attention you have been paying the last couple years.
And would take the wager that Sony is selling off their camera part of their business, but let's just say
that would not really be fair on my part to do so.

Steve Burkett January 6th, 2017 02:59 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1925923)
+1

The C100 mark 2 is also a good example that it's not all about the codec, I"m sure those owners won't all jump ship to get a GH5.

Many former users I know of that camera have already jumped ship to the Sony FS5; can't blame them given that the C100 line has stalled since the Mark 2.

I don't think the GH5 will harm Sony anymore than the GH4 did and there was similar over reaction then. Its just excitement at a product that actually progresses video options for DSLR Video. You couldn't say that about the Canon 5D Mark IV. Like any camera, its not going to be perfect; it'll have its issues, low light will always be a limitations of the sensor despite advances. Still it's progress and that can only be good for camera development across other brands if they're prepared to pick up the gauntlet.

Ron Evans January 6th, 2017 07:21 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Well Panasonic with the new cameras has done some self protecting of the Varicam line. The UX180/HC-X1 do not have 10 bit at all so projecting them away from the broadcast line etc. The GH5 is a still camera format with interchangeable lenses. Different market. However for event work the combination is very good I think. UHD 60P from all to crop in a HD timeline which is my focus. Yes I agree that Sony could compete, the question is will it and when. Sony have always delivered lots of models that are fundamentally the same with marketing restrictions. My FDR-AX1 is typical when compared to the PXW-Z100. Clearly the same product. Or the PJ970 and the NX30U. Personally going forward I think this approach is flawed and costs lots of money . People will use their cell phone or want something a lot better. The camera business in the low end for stills or camcorders is where the hole will develop and removing useful features for the enthusiest will not be that useful. The high end and broadcast have real needs of SDI, timecode etc that provide enough differentiation for a model change and consequently cost a lot more because the market will be smaller. If you want something the masses do not need then you will pay proportionally more for something that doesn't appear to be much. It is the one mistake I think Panasonic has made in these new cameras. If they had given the UX180 10 bit, 4:2:2 then they could have charged much more for it and likely sold them too. Are they also protecting the P2 lineup or is this lineup going to go in favor of the new faster UHS 11 like the GH5 and we will see a UXxxx with UHS 11 card slots, 10 bit 4:2:2 that would be a very nice product. Adopting the consumer WiFi app rather than the one now for that range would also be an improvement !!!

Ron Evans

Pete Cofrancesco January 6th, 2017 09:21 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
I think there is an over reaction to 422 because its a pro feature that is now becoming available to the prosumer that and slow motion. I mean look if phones started offering 422 would everyone ditch their dslrs in favor of smart phones? At the end of the day there are different categories of cameras designed for different needs and one thing like a codec isn't going to change that.

Ronald Jackson January 6th, 2017 09:29 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Wish they'd bring out an updated AF-101. I love MFT, have some lenses, like, quite fond of in fact, my brace of GH4s but GH4 and 5 never a "proper"video camera.

Ron

Cliff Totten January 6th, 2017 10:20 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans (Post 1925937)
Well Panasonic with the new cameras has done some self protecting of the Varicam line. The UX180/HC-X1 do not have 10 bit at all so projecting them away from the broadcast line etc. The GH5 is a still camera format with interchangeable lenses. Different market. However for event work the combination is very good I think. UHD 60P from all to crop in a HD timeline which is my focus. Yes I agree that Sony could compete, the question is will it and when. Sony have always delivered lots of models that are fundamentally the same with marketing restrictions. My FDR-AX1 is typical when compared to the PXW-Z100. Clearly the same product. Or the PJ970 and the NX30U. Personally going forward I think this approach is flawed and costs lots of money . People will use their cell phone or want something a lot better. The camera business in the low end for stills or camcorders is where the hole will develop and removing useful features for the enthusiest will not be that useful. The high end and broadcast have real needs of SDI, timecode etc that provide enough differentiation for a model change and consequently cost a lot more because the market will be smaller. If you want something the masses do not need then you will pay proportionally more for something that doesn't appear to be much. It is the one mistake I think Panasonic has made in these new cameras. If they had given the UX180 10 bit, 4:2:2 then they could have charged much more for it and likely sold them too. Are they also protecting the P2 lineup or is this lineup going to go in favor of the new faster UHS 11 like the GH5 and we will see a UXxxx with UHS 11 card slots, 10 bit 4:2:2 that would be a very nice product. Adopting the consumer WiFi app rather than the one now for that range would also be an improvement !!!

Ron Evans

I suspect that the reason why Panasonic left 10 off the UX180 is because they were forced to by Sony. And yes, I know all my talk about Panasonic buying Sony chips will severely upsets many Panasonic fans. But,...here I go again; I "suspect" Sony fabs those 1 inch-type sensors for Panasonic. (with Panny's pixel count spec) "IF" this is the case, I "suspect" that Sony decided NOT sell those chips to any Panny camera with 10bit enabled. Sony did this deliberately to protect the Z150's 10bit 1080 mode and any possible new Sony 2017 model in the works right now. I'm guessing that was written in the sale negotiation. Agreed,...this is a big "IF" statement of mine.

Again, for anybody that finds all this "Sony selling it's semiconductor tech to Panasonic" talk aggravating, sorry but Sony and Canon are not just "competitors" of Sony, there are also "customers" of Sony too. That's a fact. There is that known relationship there. (although, yes, we cannot say specifically whether the UX-180 has a Sony chip in it yet.)

CT

Noa Put January 6th, 2017 10:39 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

And yes, I know all my talk about Panasonic buying Sony chips will severely piss of many Panasonic fans
I don't know where you get that idea, it looks like you are the only one here who takes this way to personal, it's just a camera you know :) Who cares where Panasonic gets their sensors.

Ron Evans January 6th, 2017 11:12 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco (Post 1925945)
I think there is an over reaction to 422 because its a pro feature that is now becoming available to the prosumer that and slow motion. I mean look if phones started offering 422 would everyone ditch their dslrs in favor of smart phones? At the end of the day there are different categories of cameras designed for different needs and one thing like a codec isn't going to change that.

I think the difference may be that with UHD and maybe higher resolutions to come there is the opportunity to crop into the image and create a different perspective. The better the source the more opportunity. A video camera on tripod zooming and panning a scene is traditional but there is another way to do that by taking a very high resolution fixed and then crop/pan/zoom in post. That is what I want to do and have done so with my FDR-AX1. Unfortunately the AX1 is just not up to this task very well in low light. In good light it is fine. When one approaches video this way the traditional camcorder arrangement is not needed but how the GH5 with XLR etc and maybe the external recording to a Atomos Inferno gives a totally different way of shooting. Rather than standing up and managing a tripod mounted camcorder one can sit down and manage camera with a WIFi application once the general setup is complete.

I do think that small still cameras and video camcorders will ( are ) get replaced with cell phones. The transition is also taking place between still and video cameras. Products like the FZ2500 for instance is a pretty good camcorder with most of the features of a normal camcorder form factor . Doesn't have XLR but neither do any of the other products at this price. Would not be surprised that an update to the FZ2500 will get a shoe that takes the new XLR unit for the GH5 !!

Ron Evans

Noa Put January 6th, 2017 11:40 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco (Post 1925945)
I think there is an over reaction to 422 because its a profeature

There are a lot of geeks out there who wet their pants when 4:2:2 and 10 bit is mentioned and they most likely will end up using the camera in their backyard shooting their cat or dog with v-log and applying all kind of luts to their footage. It's just a few who actually need or know how to make most use of that 10 bit codec.

I recently saw "Intrigue" shot by John Brawley's team with a omd em5II (vimeo.com/178135545) which is a camera no-one even is talking about when it comes to video but it was one of the most "cinematic" looking films I have seen so far shot with a m4/3 camera.

I only wish Panasonic would improve their autofocussing system to match what the sony a6500 or canon c100 can do.

Cliff Totten January 6th, 2017 11:41 AM

Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1925954)
I don't know where you get that idea, it looks like you are the only one here who takes this way to personal, it's just a camera you know :) Who cares where Panasonic gets their sensors.

Me? lol,..I dont take this stuff personal but I know that others sometimes do.

I had one guy get mad at me on another forum telling me stuff like "Panasonic doesn't need to buy anybody else's sensors. You make it sound like they NEED Sony or something to make a good camera!"

I'm like, "Dude, I'm not slamming anybody's camera, I'm only asking questions"

For me?...haha...I dont give a ratt's butt,..I just find it interesting in the industry sense.

CT ;-)


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