Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?

Kevin Langdon · October 12th, 2015, 03:52 AM

Out of interest, how and what did you connect the camera up to for the live shot?

ENG cameras have SDI out to connect up to a satellite truck or a portable device such as a Live U, etc.
As the A7s only has a HDMI connection, did you use this to stream the shot?

Paul Anderegg · October 12th, 2015, 05:13 AM

The TVU I have is a newer version that has both SDI and HDMI, so I was able to connect directly to it using a $1.75 cable which I got on eBay with free shipping from China. :)

I don't like the whole interlaced thing, but it looks fine to me.

Paul

Chris Joy · October 14th, 2015, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg

J One issue I ran into was trying to white balance my reporter.......have to go into still photo mode, really?

Custom WB's are one of the most annoying things about the A7's, that (and the inability to assign crop mode to a custom button) drives me nuts.

Peter Rush · October 14th, 2015, 11:08 AM

Assigning crop mode to a button would be a godsend!

Simon Denny · October 15th, 2015, 01:55 AM

Yep, those two features would be fantastic as a short cut.

Kris Kohuth · October 15th, 2015, 07:17 PM

With the A7s, has rolling shutter proven to be an issue in uses such as this?
Handheld or following action...that sort of thing. I can't tell if the issues overblown, or something that needs to be worked around when shooting.
Thanks.

Matt Sharp · October 15th, 2015, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Kohuth

With the A7s, has rolling shutter proven to be an issue in uses such as this?
Handheld or following action...that sort of thing.

I don't notice any rolling shutter on my a7S. I shoot at all ranges of shutter speeds, but mostly down at 1/60. Fast action, walking around, quick pans, shaking camera around, and I still don't get anything noticeable (to my eyes).

Paul Anderegg · October 16th, 2015, 01:24 AM

I can see rolling shutter if I get stupid with the camera, or shoot normally anything that is brightly lit with across the frame vertical lines. For night ENG, it is nearly impossible to notice at all, with just blobs of brightly lit things surrounded by dim blobs. :-)

I am finding the 28-135 to be not as amazing as hoped. The focus throw is much too long for ENG, the servo zoom is utterly useless, the iris, although declicked, still pops visually. The extremely long throw is turning out to be the thing I hate most about the lens........I am so used to ENG lenses where you can get to know infinity and close in, and do a quick twist to be where you should. On the 28-135, you kind of just spin and spin......and spin and spin to find a hard stop. Add to that it's only 5x..........but there are no other FF options.

Paul

Paul Anderegg · October 20th, 2015, 06:41 PM

My A7sII arrived today. The digital zoom function now has the ability to crop in on the sensor (when in 4K record mode), instead of the 1080p record stream, which means USABLE 4x digital zoom for HD output. My A7s when using 2-4x digital zoom was useless.......it cropped in on the 1080 picture, which looked horrible. This adds very much to the ability to use these cameras for ENG. My 5x 28-135 is now a realistic 20x HD zoom lens. :)

Paul

Simon Denny · October 21st, 2015, 03:17 AM

Really, that's very cool. have you done tests?

Paul Anderegg · October 21st, 2015, 09:10 AM

Yeah, shot some footage last night, have a pretty shot of a plane landing with the 50mm at 4x, looks sweet.

Paul

Paul Anderegg · October 27th, 2015, 06:23 AM

Here is a little A7sII ENG footage shot in 4K and downrezzed to 1080p. Threw in some 4x digital zoom with the 28-135, since ENG requires use of telephoto. To use digital zoom, it is mandatory you turn off any in camera detail! I added some in post.

Paul Anderegg · November 6th, 2015, 12:47 AM

So after a few weeks of having my A7sII/28-135 out in the field, I am finding it to be my "don't go to" camera. It is simply too cumbersome to use handheld (requires two hands and eye pressed against the EVF), or even on a tripod. I cannot pan tilt zoom anything, without it looking very ugly. The 28-135 when used in servo, has an absolute stop, then resume when you enter digital zoom, and if you attempt to adjust ISO or touch a button while zooming i servo, the camera gets brain freeze and controls lock up for several seconds. This also happens on the A7s.

To get usable telephoto for ENG, I have to go into the 4x digital zoom, but in order for that to not be turned into less than SD mud, you have to be in 4K shooting mode. In 4K mode, with HDMI connected, the EVF and LCD go BLACK when you hit record. All these factors are making it very difficult for me to find a scene that I would benefit from deploying the A7sII. I have a JVC HM890 with 100watt spot light, 18x lens with extender,a nd it looks horrible gained up to even 9db, but I can't say the A7sII with 28-135 looks any better if lit with the same light source once you get past 135mm optical zoom.

There is a new TV show called Nightwatch on A&E here in the US. It looks absolutely like it is shot on A7s's. They have some what looks like BM mini cameras attached on dashes, but the general EFP work looks A7s. It;s a cops/medics/firefighters show, and I would say 25% of the stuff looks pretty bad, shaky, can't find focus etc. This show has very high production values, so you know that they wouldn't use those very bad looking shots unless that was the best they could get out of the gear. So it's a trade off between how much effect (shoot in the dark) you need, versus how much crap you are willing to get away with as a side effect. I like to think of it as how big of a wart would a supermodel have to have before I decided to not date her anymore. :)

Full Nightwatch episodes available from the link below, let me know if they look A7s or am I imagining things?

Nightwatch - Episodes, Video & Schedule - A&E

Paul Anderegg · November 14th, 2015, 11:35 PM

Found some time to put some more hours (minutes?) on the A7sII. Here is 5 minutes worth from various scenes, all nat light shot in 4K. Select 4K playback for maximum bitrate HD playback.

Paul Anderegg · December 5th, 2015, 01:49 PM

Well, I haven't used my A7sII is 3 weeks, it comes out with my every night, but it is just too cumbersome to use in an ENG environment, and it's dedicated INTERLACED only broadcast output is in direct violation of my stations 720p60 system. I will have to place the A7sII firmly in the EFP/cine world, as it cannot hack it against even a little handheld ENG camera.

Sony, give us some real servo zoom speed and a servo that doesn't lock the camera controls and maybe I can do something with this wonderful sensor. :)

Paul

October 12th, 2015, 03:52 AM	#61
Kevin Langdon Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Somerset, England Posts: 120	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? Out of interest, how and what did you connect the camera up to for the live shot? ENG cameras have SDI out to connect up to a satellite truck or a portable device such as a Live U, etc. As the A7s only has a HDMI connection, did you use this to stream the shot?

October 12th, 2015, 05:13 AM	#62
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? The TVU I have is a newer version that has both SDI and HDMI, so I was able to connect directly to it using a $1.75 cable which I got on eBay with free shipping from China. :) I don't like the whole interlaced thing, but it looks fine to me. Paul

October 14th, 2015, 11:08 AM	#64
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? Assigning crop mode to a button would be a godsend!

October 15th, 2015, 01:55 AM	#65
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? Yep, those two features would be fantastic as a short cut.

October 15th, 2015, 07:17 PM	#66
Kris Kohuth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mooresville, NC Posts: 49	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? With the A7s, has rolling shutter proven to be an issue in uses such as this? Handheld or following action...that sort of thing. I can't tell if the issues overblown, or something that needs to be worked around when shooting. Thanks.

October 16th, 2015, 01:24 AM	#68
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? I can see rolling shutter if I get stupid with the camera, or shoot normally anything that is brightly lit with across the frame vertical lines. For night ENG, it is nearly impossible to notice at all, with just blobs of brightly lit things surrounded by dim blobs. :-) I am finding the 28-135 to be not as amazing as hoped. The focus throw is much too long for ENG, the servo zoom is utterly useless, the iris, although declicked, still pops visually. The extremely long throw is turning out to be the thing I hate most about the lens........I am so used to ENG lenses where you can get to know infinity and close in, and do a quick twist to be where you should. On the 28-135, you kind of just spin and spin......and spin and spin to find a hard stop. Add to that it's only 5x..........but there are no other FF options. Paul

October 20th, 2015, 06:41 PM	#69
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? My A7sII arrived today. The digital zoom function now has the ability to crop in on the sensor (when in 4K record mode), instead of the 1080p record stream, which means USABLE 4x digital zoom for HD output. My A7s when using 2-4x digital zoom was useless.......it cropped in on the 1080 picture, which looked horrible. This adds very much to the ability to use these cameras for ENG. My 5x 28-135 is now a realistic 20x HD zoom lens. :) Paul

October 21st, 2015, 03:17 AM	#70
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? Really, that's very cool. have you done tests?

October 21st, 2015, 09:10 AM	#71
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? Yeah, shot some footage last night, have a pretty shot of a plane landing with the 50mm at 4x, looks sweet. Paul

October 27th, 2015, 06:23 AM	#72
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? Here is a little A7sII ENG footage shot in 4K and downrezzed to 1080p. Threw in some 4x digital zoom with the 28-135, since ENG requires use of telephoto. To use digital zoom, it is mandatory you turn off any in camera detail! I added some in post. YouTube (Short URL)

November 6th, 2015, 12:47 AM	#73
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? So after a few weeks of having my A7sII/28-135 out in the field, I am finding it to be my "don't go to" camera. It is simply too cumbersome to use handheld (requires two hands and eye pressed against the EVF), or even on a tripod. I cannot pan tilt zoom anything, without it looking very ugly. The 28-135 when used in servo, has an absolute stop, then resume when you enter digital zoom, and if you attempt to adjust ISO or touch a button while zooming i servo, the camera gets brain freeze and controls lock up for several seconds. This also happens on the A7s. To get usable telephoto for ENG, I have to go into the 4x digital zoom, but in order for that to not be turned into less than SD mud, you have to be in 4K shooting mode. In 4K mode, with HDMI connected, the EVF and LCD go BLACK when you hit record. All these factors are making it very difficult for me to find a scene that I would benefit from deploying the A7sII. I have a JVC HM890 with 100watt spot light, 18x lens with extender,a nd it looks horrible gained up to even 9db, but I can't say the A7sII with 28-135 looks any better if lit with the same light source once you get past 135mm optical zoom. There is a new TV show called Nightwatch on A&E here in the US. It looks absolutely like it is shot on A7s's. They have some what looks like BM mini cameras attached on dashes, but the general EFP work looks A7s. It;s a cops/medics/firefighters show, and I would say 25% of the stuff looks pretty bad, shaky, can't find focus etc. This show has very high production values, so you know that they wouldn't use those very bad looking shots unless that was the best they could get out of the gear. So it's a trade off between how much effect (shoot in the dark) you need, versus how much crap you are willing to get away with as a side effect. I like to think of it as how big of a wart would a supermodel have to have before I decided to not date her anymore. :) Full Nightwatch episodes available from the link below, let me know if they look A7s or am I imagining things? Nightwatch - Episodes, Video & Schedule - A&E

November 14th, 2015, 11:35 PM	#74
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? Found some time to put some more hours (minutes?) on the A7sII. Here is 5 minutes worth from various scenes, all nat light shot in 4K. Select 4K playback for maximum bitrate HD playback. YouTube (Short URL)

December 5th, 2015, 01:49 PM	#75
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style? Well, I haven't used my A7sII is 3 weeks, it comes out with my every night, but it is just too cumbersome to use in an ENG environment, and it's dedicated INTERLACED only broadcast output is in direct violation of my stations 720p60 system. I will have to place the A7sII firmly in the EFP/cine world, as it cannot hack it against even a little handheld ENG camera. Sony, give us some real servo zoom speed and a servo that doesn't lock the camera controls and maybe I can do something with this wonderful sensor. :) Paul