SDHC substitute for SxS cards

Peter Kraft · November 11th, 2008, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

But for some reason, when I took the SD card out of the adapter and put it in my laptop nothing happened. My laptop can't see it.

Question 1: Which laptop are you working with?
Question 2: Is the SxS driver installed?

Stick an ExpressCard into a PCMCIA slot adapter? Would not do it ... just another chance to fail.
Hint:Think of Murphy's law ;-)

Paul Kellett · November 11th, 2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

But for some reason, when I took the SD card out of the adapter and put it in my laptop nothing happened. My laptop can't see it.

Because the card is not an SD card, it's an SDHC card, there is a difference, my laptop and pc both have an SD slot but none of them see the SDHC card.

I use the USB>SDHC adaptor for offloading on my desktop, or for the laptop either the USB>SDHC or leave the SDHC card in the kensington and then shove both in the express card slot.

Paul.

Michael Maier · November 11th, 2008, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

Question 1: Which laptop are you working with?
Question 2: Is the SxS driver installed?

Stick an ExpressCard into a PCMCIA slot adapter? Would not do it ... just another chance to fail.
Hint:Think of Murphy's law ;-)

Using an Acer 1714SMi. It reads any other SD cards I insert into it.
Yes, SxS driver and clip browser installed and I can see cards if I plug the camera.

About the 54 to 34 adapter I have heard of people who use it with success.
Thanks.

Michael Maier · November 11th, 2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

Because the card is not an SD card, it's an SDHC card, there is a difference, my laptop and pc both have an SD slot but none of them see the SDHC card.

I use the USB>SDHC adaptor for offloading on my desktop, or for the laptop either the USB>SDHC or leave the SDHC card in the kensington and then shove both in the express card slot.

Aha! That explains it.
Well, I only have a express card 54 slot (the bigger ones). Do you think it's worth it to buy a 54>34 adapter? Sounds more useful than a USB>SDHC adapter since with the express 54>34 I could also off load the original SxS cards.Thanks.

Paul Kellett · November 11th, 2008, 07:42 AM

I can't give you an honest answer to that Michael, i've never used a 54>34 adaptor.
I don't really use my sony card any more, i use the transcend SDHC all the time now so i only use the SDHC>USB reader.
It offloads in about 4x speed.

Paul.

Alex Raskin · November 11th, 2008, 07:53 AM

Michael, your laptop's SD slot may not understand SDHC cards.

Mine doesn't.

I offload my 16Gb Sandisk or Transcend cards by keeping them in the ExpressCard adapter (laptop does have a very well-working ExpressCard slot.)

Michael Maier · November 11th, 2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

I can't give you an honest answer to that Michael, i've never used a 54>34 adaptor.
I don't really use my sony card any more, i use the transcend SDHC all the time now so i only use the SDHC>USB reader.
It offloads in about 4x speed.

Paul.

Thanks. Which SDHC>USB reader do you recommend?
I still need to use my SxS as I do a lot of slow motion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

Michael, your laptop's SD slot may not understand SDHC cards.

Mine doesn't.

I offload my 16Gb Sandisk or Transcend cards by keeping them in the ExpressCard adapter (laptop does have a very well-working ExpressCard slot.)

Thanks Alex.

Paul Kellett · November 11th, 2008, 08:27 AM

Michael, i got my SDHC reader with the transcend cards which i use.
I paid £25 for 16gb card or £30 with a reader.
The reader is about the size of my thumb, doesn't require any mains power like the sony reader, and no driver is needed, it's just plug and play usb.
I got mine from an ebay shop which happens to be about 2 miles from my house, so i go and pay cash for them.
The ebay shop is called "shop4usb".
Me and 2 other EX1 users have all got our cards and readers from there, none of us have had any problems.

What you can do is copy the slo-mo from the sxs card to the SDHC card in camera, then offload with the USB>SDHC reader, that way you don't need the express card slot or 34/54 adaptor or anything.

Paul.

John Peterson · November 11th, 2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Aha! That explains it.
Well, I only have a express card 54 slot (the bigger ones). Do you think it's worth it to buy a 54>34 adapter? Sounds more useful than a USB>SDHC adapter since with the express 54>34 I could also off load the original SxS cards.Thanks.

Michael,

Most of those accept both size cards. Peek into the slot or look in the laptop manual.

John

Bill Ravens · November 11th, 2008, 09:38 AM

yes, a PCIe 54 slot will accept a 34 sized card without an adapter. the internal electrical contacts are identical. only the outer slot width is changed.

Erik Phairas · November 11th, 2008, 08:15 PM

I made this video for you guys. I shot my EX3 using my Sr11 and did some overcranking tests. 720x30p at 60fps, using only an Ultra II SDHC and my two kensingtons. I tried both adapters... both worked... I've done this (by mistake) on a real world shoot so it appears to work.

Any ideas?

it's converting now.. (EDIT: video is up)

PMW EX3 SDHC combo overcranking test on Vimeo

Steven Thomas · November 11th, 2008, 09:09 PM

When using the Kensington/SDHC card, are you asking why overcranking 30P at 60FPS works, but does not when overcranking 24P at 60FPS.

If so, it's due to max datarate via the SDHC combo and how Sony has "probably" limited the USB datarate over the expresscard slot.

Comparing the ratio 30/24, the written datarate for overcranking 24P is about 25% higher than overcranking 30P. This probably explains why you can overcrank 30P at 60FPS.

But, bear in mind you are probably "hanging on the edge" of running out of headroom at this written datarate. I would stick to SxS for overcrank. slo-mo effects "usually" are a VERY small percentage of overall captured footage.

Ted OMalley · November 11th, 2008, 10:08 PM

Erik,

I was able to shoot up to ten minutes using a variety of settings. Some failed shortly after ten, some failed more quickly. For testing, I FILLED a 16GB card with ten second clips first (which took a while) to test the cards ability to handle a bunch of smaller clips and not error. Then, after that test, I FILLED a 16GB card (another hour) shooting the TV screen - motion video non-stop.

Many settings don't fail right away. They take a bit to error out. In order to thoroughly test a card combination, you have to consider the extremes under which they'll be used. You'll be able to achieve higher framerates overcranking 30p than you will with 24p. Either way, a two minute test is insufficient to determine results.

Have you tried overcranking for longer periods?

Erik Phairas · November 12th, 2008, 02:13 AM

I don't really use the slo motion for longer than about 30 seconds at a time. I was just surprised that it worked at all with the SDHC at 60fps S&Q.. after reading this thread I just thought it would fail right away..

I wasn't looking to prove you guys wrong or anything, I was just showing that I was having some apparent good luck with my card. :)

Ian Planchon · November 14th, 2008, 08:41 AM

I have read every post I can find on this whole adapter issue. and while it does sound like a great idea in theory, does everyone who is using it feel its solid? I am just hesitant to purchase only 2 8gb cards to find out I cant trust the SDHC card technique, and then have to order some more SxS cards.

I just see some threads as recent as last month that seem to be having issues recording in 1080p mode and losing clips every now and then....

it seems like a better choice for me would be to pick up the 60gb hard drive and call it a day (yea its expensive, but still cheaper then stocking up on 16gb cards).

does this sound like an accurate assumption, or do you feel the adapter technique is rock solid?

November 11th, 2008, 07:42 AM	#875
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	I can't give you an honest answer to that Michael, i've never used a 54>34 adaptor. I don't really use my sony card any more, i use the transcend SDHC all the time now so i only use the SDHC>USB reader. It offloads in about 4x speed. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

November 11th, 2008, 08:27 AM	#878
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Michael, i got my SDHC reader with the transcend cards which i use. I paid £25 for 16gb card or £30 with a reader. The reader is about the size of my thumb, doesn't require any mains power like the sony reader, and no driver is needed, it's just plug and play usb. I got mine from an ebay shop which happens to be about 2 miles from my house, so i go and pay cash for them. The ebay shop is called "shop4usb". Me and 2 other EX1 users have all got our cards and readers from there, none of us have had any problems. What you can do is copy the slo-mo from the sxs card to the SDHC card in camera, then offload with the USB>SDHC reader, that way you don't need the express card slot or 34/54 adaptor or anything. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

November 11th, 2008, 10:08 PM	#883
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	Erik, I was able to shoot up to ten minutes using a variety of settings. Some failed shortly after ten, some failed more quickly. For testing, I FILLED a 16GB card with ten second clips first (which took a while) to test the cards ability to handle a bunch of smaller clips and not error. Then, after that test, I FILLED a 16GB card (another hour) shooting the TV screen - motion video non-stop. Many settings don't fail right away. They take a bit to error out. In order to thoroughly test a card combination, you have to consider the extremes under which they'll be used. You'll be able to achieve higher framerates overcranking 30p than you will with 24p. Either way, a two minute test is insufficient to determine results. Have you tried overcranking for longer periods? __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

November 14th, 2008, 08:41 AM	#885
Ian Planchon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: an Alaskan living in Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 513	SDHC cards....seems hit or miss? I have read every post I can find on this whole adapter issue. and while it does sound like a great idea in theory, does everyone who is using it feel its solid? I am just hesitant to purchase only 2 8gb cards to find out I cant trust the SDHC card technique, and then have to order some more SxS cards. I just see some threads as recent as last month that seem to be having issues recording in 1080p mode and losing clips every now and then.... it seems like a better choice for me would be to pick up the 60gb hard drive and call it a day (yea its expensive, but still cheaper then stocking up on 16gb cards). does this sound like an accurate assumption, or do you feel the adapter technique is rock solid?

November 11th, 2008, 07:53 AM	#876
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Michael, your laptop's SD slot may not understand SDHC cards. Mine doesn't. I offload my 16Gb Sandisk or Transcend cards by keeping them in the ExpressCard adapter (laptop does have a very well-working ExpressCard slot.)

November 11th, 2008, 09:38 AM	#880
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	yes, a PCIe 54 slot will accept a 34 sized card without an adapter. the internal electrical contacts are identical. only the outer slot width is changed.

November 11th, 2008, 08:15 PM	#881
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	I made this video for you guys. I shot my EX3 using my Sr11 and did some overcranking tests. 720x30p at 60fps, using only an Ultra II SDHC and my two kensingtons. I tried both adapters... both worked... I've done this (by mistake) on a real world shoot so it appears to work. Any ideas? it's converting now.. (EDIT: video is up) PMW EX3 SDHC combo overcranking test on Vimeo

November 11th, 2008, 09:09 PM	#882
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	When using the Kensington/SDHC card, are you asking why overcranking 30P at 60FPS works, but does not when overcranking 24P at 60FPS. If so, it's due to max datarate via the SDHC combo and how Sony has "probably" limited the USB datarate over the expresscard slot. Comparing the ratio 30/24, the written datarate for overcranking 24P is about 25% higher than overcranking 30P. This probably explains why you can overcrank 30P at 60FPS. But, bear in mind you are probably "hanging on the edge" of running out of headroom at this written datarate. I would stick to SxS for overcrank. slo-mo effects "usually" are a VERY small percentage of overall captured footage.

November 12th, 2008, 02:13 AM	#884
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	I don't really use the slo motion for longer than about 30 seconds at a time. I was just surprised that it worked at all with the SDHC at 60fps S&Q.. after reading this thread I just thought it would fail right away.. I wasn't looking to prove you guys wrong or anything, I was just showing that I was having some apparent good luck with my card. :)