Ridiculous Job Offers / Demands!!

Josh Bass · November 18th, 2005, 09:23 PM

James, I may have to fight you on this one. It doesn't sound that unusual. Interships are usually unpaid.

The only weird thing is that, in high school and college, they expect you to be "knowledgeable about the film industry."

Then why the fark am I interning?

James Emory · November 18th, 2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

The only weird thing is that, in high school and college, they expect you to be "knowledgeable about the film industry."

I didn't state it, but that's exactly what I was thinking. I think we've all interned at one time or another but that wasn't the point. What you stated is what is so ridiculous about their post, the requirements. Their description sounds like working professionals and like they're trying to staff an entire broadcast facility.

Karl Heiner · November 18th, 2005, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Emory

Oh yes, I think it's safe to say that we have all worked for free and I occassionally still do if not for deferrment which is a caculated risk. I may do it for a friend or for a project that I believe in. The point of this thread though, is to show how demanding some people can be when asking for help whether it's clearly for no compensation or for deferrment. No one should be that way when that is the situation. They should be happy with what they can get, for free! If you look carefully through this thread you will see some scattered discussion about this.

hello james,

i see your point, but some of the postings shouting in the wrong direction, they go after the people who take those jobs. people like me, who are on the way up/ to learn etc.

since i "search" daily for opportunities, you'r right, there are a lot of rediculous
"job offers" out there, and to make that clear, i am not defending them.

i guess whoever starts the videograph/ film business will reach the point of "no return", because it's fun, or 5 and 6 digits of money investet in exquipment.etc.

there may be even a market.

greetings

Craig Seeman · November 19th, 2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Heiner

hello james,

i see your point, but some of the postings shouting in the wrong direction, they go after the people who take those jobs. people like me, who are on the way up/ to learn etc.

since i "search" daily for opportunities, you'r right, there are a lot of rediculous
"job offers" out there, and to make that clear, i am not defending them.

i guess whoever starts the videograph/ film business will reach the point of "no return", because it's fun, or 5 and 6 digits of money investet in exquipment.etc.

there may be even a market.

greetings

Starting salary should not be $0. If you're simply providing labor and no gear you should make enough to buy food and pay for housing. Pay can be very low because those folks might still be living at home or splitting housing costs with roommates but one still has those real world costs.

Internships mean getting trained by talented and/or seasoned professionals. You're getting an education that would otherwise cost you a fortune in classes (or on the job mistakes). That's NOT, "you get paid nothing because I haven't a clue how to raise money for my project/business." In fact that's the kind of job you RUN FROM!

If any gig requires gear, it's not an internship! They're goniffs (crooks) if there's no reasonable pay. You need make to cost of living plus cost of the gear you're paying for along with its maintenance and eventual replacement.

Base pay for a newbie should be cost of living (and cost of gear if required). You're rate of pay increases as you gain skill and you make PROFIT - Go on vacations, go to movies, go out to eat, enjoy life.

IMHO you start out working "at cost" (NOT FREE or at a loss) and then start making more profit as you gain skills.

Bill Zens · November 19th, 2005, 12:35 PM

Absolutely, Craig. My main occupation is not video, but when we do hire interns, they are paid. It's not a lot, but it's at least minimum wage. Companies are using the excuse of "internship" as a means to get free labor, and are justifying it by calling it "training" or pretending its classroom time.
The real question s/b, is the company using the intern as part of the creating of a final product. Almost always, the answer is yes; therefore almost always the answer s/b to pay the intern. Anything else is simply a rationalization.

James Emory · November 19th, 2005, 01:30 PM

Thank you Craig and Bill! Back in the early '90s, I was interning at a local cable station then owned by Scripps Howard, then Comcast who eventually got rid of it 10 years later. When it was new, I approached and convinced them to let me produce a show using their gear and in return for the use of that, I worked for free as a shooter for their news department. I didn't mind that deal because I was very young and was just happy to be doing something that I had always wanted to do. I came out ahead on that deal because I could never put a value on the hands on training (total immersion) that I got from that experience. One other note is that after Comcast took over, for some reason, they started paying local college interns. I don't know if there were complaints from the schools or if they realized they may have been breaking labor laws. It was kind of discouraging to be around people that knew far less than me, people I was training and supervising GETTING PAID while I worked for free! But not really, the hands on experience that I received then has served me well and has been a key reason for getting me where I am today. These posts for nonpaid positions are not all shady but I will only do something once that I haven't done before, if it gets me experience that I think I need and there's probably no other way that I could have gotten it.

Bill Porter · November 20th, 2005, 02:20 PM

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. We should all be thankful that everyone doesn't charge for internships or the privilege of working for someone!

Craig Seeman · November 20th, 2005, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Porter

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. We should all be thankful that everyone doesn't charge for internships or the privilege of working for someone!

But they do!

It used to be you had to pay around $3200 for a PD-150, then it went to $3500 for the DVX-100 to shoot in 24p, now they ask you to have a Z1 for $4600 and when the Panasonic HVX-200 comes out you'll have to pay $6000!

I expect to see interns who must have a Thompson Viper soon!

James Emory · November 20th, 2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Porter

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. We should all be thankful that everyone doesn't charge for internships or the privilege of working for someone!

Please explain further. I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by everyone doesn't charge for internships or the privilege of working for someone! Who does everyone refer to?

Bill Porter · November 20th, 2005, 06:43 PM

Craig, excellent point!

Craig Seeman · November 20th, 2005, 08:44 PM

Talk about shady. A wedding ceremony with four people and it'll be 2 hours. Heck even the longer ones don't go much over an hour. Waz up with dat? Then he wants TWO more shoot days at about 5 hours each. Cost 12 hours over 3 days is $250. Of course the pay's so high because you have to have experience and equipment!

Need person to shoot some digital video
I need a cameraman on Nov. 26th for 2 hours to film a barebones wedding in Central Park, only the couple, officiate and me will be present.

I also need a cameramann on Nov. 28th and 29th for a total of 10 hours. I want to shoot footage to put on my website.

I might have other stuff in the future.

You need to have experience and equipment. Pay is $ 250 for the whole thing.

Bill Zens · November 22nd, 2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

I need a cameraman on Nov. 26th for 2 hours to film a barebones wedding in Central Park, only the couple, officiate and me will be present.

But the location and time of year are great!!!

James Emory · November 23rd, 2005, 03:41 AM

Surely they don't realize just how specialized that camera is. If I'm going to be operating the new Cannon DVX, I think I should be getting more than $50 / day!

"Looking for DP who can work a Cannon DVX 3CCD who has access to a basic lighting kit. We welcome fresh out of film school graduates. A independent trilogy slated for entry to the atlanta film festival

$50/ day + credits, copy+ food

3 day shoot"

Nick Hiltgen · November 23rd, 2005, 09:01 AM

an independent trilogy? In three days? Hmm that means one movie a day on a camera that doesn't even exist, good thing it's ok if you're fresh out of film school (which I imagine means GSU or SCAD).

James Emory · November 28th, 2005, 09:21 PM

If they have pro editors teaching, then why do they need editors to cut their content?

"Xxxxxxx based production company is looking to hire professional editors to edit a reality show and future projects. If you have proven work and are looking for your next job send us an email stating your interest along with a resume or a link to your webpage.

We are also looking to hire inhouse editors and we do provide on the job training for serious inquiries only. If you have a passion for editing but haven't had the time or opportunity to learn the basics, come join us every Saturday for our inhouse Final Cut workshop.

Bring your home photos and video, leave with your own edited project…

Next class

SATURDAYS
BEGINNER’S CLASS 10:00AM – 12:00 $75.00 (ask about our fee wavier program)
ADVANCED CLASS 1:00 PM – 3:00PM $75.00
TUESDAYS ADDED BY POPULAR DEMAND!
BEGINNER'S CLASS 10:00AM - 12:00 $75.00
BEGINNER'S CLASS 7:00PM - 9:00PM $75.00
IN OUR ONE DAY INTENSIVE TRAINING COURSE, learn Final Cut Pro from our team of Editors with extensive experience in using Final Cut Pro for Film and Video. Our Introductory and Advanced classes teach you the basics you need to complete your own project including:

• How to open, log and capture your images,
• Basic transitions
• Create your own project
• Leave class with your own edited video!

Class size is restricted, SPACE IS LIMITED. CALL TODAY TO REGISTER"

November 18th, 2005, 09:23 PM	#196
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	James, I may have to fight you on this one. It doesn't sound that unusual. Interships are usually unpaid. The only weird thing is that, in high school and college, they expect you to be "knowledgeable about the film industry." Then why the fark am I interning? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

November 23rd, 2005, 03:41 AM	#208
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Introducing the all new Cannon DVX! Surely they don't realize just how specialized that camera is. If I'm going to be operating the new Cannon DVX, I think I should be getting more than $50 / day! "Looking for DP who can work a Cannon DVX 3CCD who has access to a basic lighting kit. We welcome fresh out of film school graduates. A independent trilogy slated for entry to the atlanta film festival $50/ day + credits, copy+ food 3 day shoot"

November 23rd, 2005, 09:01 AM	#209
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	an independent trilogy? In three days? Hmm that means one movie a day on a camera that doesn't even exist, good thing it's ok if you're fresh out of film school (which I imagine means GSU or SCAD). __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

November 19th, 2005, 12:35 PM	#200
Bill Zens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 191	Absolutely, Craig. My main occupation is not video, but when we do hire interns, they are paid. It's not a lot, but it's at least minimum wage. Companies are using the excuse of "internship" as a means to get free labor, and are justifying it by calling it "training" or pretending its classroom time. The real question s/b, is the company using the intern as part of the creating of a final product. Almost always, the answer is yes; therefore almost always the answer s/b to pay the intern. Anything else is simply a rationalization.

November 19th, 2005, 01:30 PM	#201
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Thank you Craig and Bill! Back in the early '90s, I was interning at a local cable station then owned by Scripps Howard, then Comcast who eventually got rid of it 10 years later. When it was new, I approached and convinced them to let me produce a show using their gear and in return for the use of that, I worked for free as a shooter for their news department. I didn't mind that deal because I was very young and was just happy to be doing something that I had always wanted to do. I came out ahead on that deal because I could never put a value on the hands on training (total immersion) that I got from that experience. One other note is that after Comcast took over, for some reason, they started paying local college interns. I don't know if there were complaints from the schools or if they realized they may have been breaking labor laws. It was kind of discouraging to be around people that knew far less than me, people I was training and supervising GETTING PAID while I worked for free! But not really, the hands on experience that I received then has served me well and has been a key reason for getting me where I am today. These posts for nonpaid positions are not all shady but I will only do something once that I haven't done before, if it gets me experience that I think I need and there's probably no other way that I could have gotten it.

November 20th, 2005, 02:20 PM	#202
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	You guys are looking at this the wrong way. We should all be thankful that everyone doesn't charge for internships or the privilege of working for someone!

November 20th, 2005, 06:43 PM	#205
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	Craig, excellent point!

November 20th, 2005, 08:44 PM	#206
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Talk about shady. A wedding ceremony with four people and it'll be 2 hours. Heck even the longer ones don't go much over an hour. Waz up with dat? Then he wants TWO more shoot days at about 5 hours each. Cost 12 hours over 3 days is $250. Of course the pay's so high because you have to have experience and equipment! Need person to shoot some digital video I need a cameraman on Nov. 26th for 2 hours to film a barebones wedding in Central Park, only the couple, officiate and me will be present. I also need a cameramann on Nov. 28th and 29th for a total of 10 hours. I want to shoot footage to put on my website. I might have other stuff in the future. You need to have experience and equipment. Pay is $ 250 for the whole thing.

November 28th, 2005, 09:21 PM	#210
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	If they have pro editors teaching, then why do they need editors to cut their content? "Xxxxxxx based production company is looking to hire professional editors to edit a reality show and future projects. If you have proven work and are looking for your next job send us an email stating your interest along with a resume or a link to your webpage. We are also looking to hire inhouse editors and we do provide on the job training for serious inquiries only. If you have a passion for editing but haven't had the time or opportunity to learn the basics, come join us every Saturday for our inhouse Final Cut workshop. Bring your home photos and video, leave with your own edited project… Next class SATURDAYS BEGINNER’S CLASS 10:00AM – 12:00 $75.00 (ask about our fee wavier program) ADVANCED CLASS 1:00 PM – 3:00PM $75.00 TUESDAYS ADDED BY POPULAR DEMAND! BEGINNER'S CLASS 10:00AM - 12:00 $75.00 BEGINNER'S CLASS 7:00PM - 9:00PM $75.00 IN OUR ONE DAY INTENSIVE TRAINING COURSE, learn Final Cut Pro from our team of Editors with extensive experience in using Final Cut Pro for Film and Video. Our Introductory and Advanced classes teach you the basics you need to complete your own project including: • How to open, log and capture your images, • Basic transitions • Create your own project • Leave class with your own edited video! Class size is restricted, SPACE IS LIMITED. CALL TODAY TO REGISTER"