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-   -   Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/537015-frameforge-worth-buying-storyboarding.html)

Brian Drysdale September 15th, 2019 02:12 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
You really need to change DP, because if that's the reason for the problem, the one you're discussing is out of their depth,

Ryan Elder September 15th, 2019 02:43 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Out of depth how?

Josh Bass September 15th, 2019 02:48 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
You literally explained what you were trying to do and why the camera placement/angle would accomplish that, and she failed to understand. That is the very meaning of "out of one's depth."

Ryan Elder September 15th, 2019 02:52 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh I see, yes. Well I definitely want to get someone more experienced for future projects for sure. I think I have a tendency to go for whoever applies to my adds, where as I need to find a way to attract a lot more people to apply, so I have more to choose from.

Josh Bass September 15th, 2019 02:54 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
BETTER people to apply, not more. A larger pile of dookie doesn't magically become gold, it's just more dookie to clean up.

Better people usually = paying them a decent rate.

Ryan Elder September 15th, 2019 02:57 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
And that's another thing, is budget, cause I was planning on spending quite a bit of my money on it, but some filmmakers told me no and I should just get people willing to work for very low pay, if not volunteering, but get people who actually want to do it real bad, so I can save a lot of money.

However, volunteer work in the past, did not have the best results I don't think, plus if you do that, you are forced to work around everyones' schedules which can be a problem.

Paul R Johnson September 15th, 2019 03:01 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
An artist can convey amazing things in pictures, but far more people have no artistic ability at all. Others like me understand perspective and technical drawing and can produce fairly decent and nderstandable sketches of sets, buildings and things but. Can't draw people or animals. Drawing on computers I can do especially if I use apps I'm familiar with, but I can scribble a sketch much, much more quickly. How are you on this Ryan?

Ryan Elder September 15th, 2019 03:30 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
I am not sure, really. I did it for my last two projects.

If I were describe the shot in words instead of a story board, how would I describe the exact degree of the angle? For example if it was a master shot, should I write that the master shot is on a 40 degree diagonal, or something like that?

Josh Bass September 15th, 2019 04:17 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
You would not. Again, you would simply say "we want to see this". And then when they set up and go "like that?", and it's wrong, you would say "no, lower, higher, more of an angle to the wall, I want to see more ceiling, or less floor, or whatever.

No is one is going to know what you mean by 40 degree angle etc. For instance, I'm sure I could set up exactly the shot you wanted, on set, but not with scientific or mathematical terms the way you want to do. That's just not how folks talk to each other on real sets. They do what I said in the paragraph above. The boards, again, are for the people who need them to get roughly on the same page to know what you're after, but then when you are actually set up, things start moving around a little bit. That's just how it is. Only in a theoretical, nonexistent universe could storyboards be so perfect that cameras and actors would plop down on their blueprinted spots and it would be exactly right.

Whatever you're about to say you thought, or ask, the answer is no, see above.

Brian Drysdale September 15th, 2019 04:42 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Use the soccer referee method of pointing where a free kick is to be taken to position the camera i.e point at the grounds and instruct "master shot camera position here".

Getting people who don't know what they're doing is a waste of money, even if they're free, because it costs money to feed the crew and other expenses.

Ryan Elder September 15th, 2019 05:10 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Okay thanks. So i should still do a book of storyboards then just as a rough outline of shots?

Jan Klier September 15th, 2019 07:13 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
FrameForge is a very technical program with a pretty decent learning curve. I don't think it's the best solution for just storyboarding and blocking on a smaller film. It's accurate to scale and camera geometry, so it's great if you have a very specific set and need to work out camera movement, focal length, light position, etc.

Ryan Elder September 15th, 2019 09:27 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh well I thought I would use it to just storyboard shots in general, so for example instead of verbally explaining the blocking and camera movement, everyone can just see it. But if the program is too overqualified than maybe I could just stick with pencil and paper, if that's better.

Paul R Johnson September 15th, 2019 11:43 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
People really have problems with pictorial representations of the real world unless their brain is wired that way. To you, storyboard frames make perfect sense - but you keep forgetting ordinary people vary.
I am having some building work at home. I drew some sketches. My wife had no idea. I drew some plans, same thing. I then generated some 3D projections and still it didn't click. Then I did one of those walk through videos from the plans, and it worked. Then she asked a silly question. I realised that despite seeing OUR existing house every day, the video of walking from old to new extension had not clicked in her head as being OUR house - just A house.

This is the problem with storyboards. some people find them a very slow way of explaining - but a workable alternative to speech - however, as we've said above, you get to the location or onto the set, and somebody says here!

I've lost count of how many times in the studio I offer the director a shot, only to have the director say in the cans, "3, go right a bit ....... stop. Great - we'll use that again, can you mark it". In the viewfinder I sort of think it's OK, but my first position was better - however I'm not seeing what the others are offering so you go with the director.

Brian Drysdale September 16th, 2019 01:34 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
As Paul says the storyboard is just a starting point, it's open to interpretation. They are starting points to which the DP and actors will add something extra which makes them better. Don't get fixated by the storyboard, you always need to verbally communicate with the cast and crew, especially the less experienced ones you're using. Actors aren't that interested in the storyboard, they are into their characters and what they're doing within a scene.

Even engineering drawings may require changes when they meed the real world because you can't get something to fit because another item is in the way.


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