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-   -   Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/537015-frameforge-worth-buying-storyboarding.html)

Ryan Elder September 16th, 2019 06:33 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh okay thanks, I can just use them as a starting point only then. So is FrameForge not worth using then, if it's just a starting point, or would it still help?

Brian Drysdale September 16th, 2019 07:28 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Using software depends on whatever works for you. If it feels natural using a pencil and paper use that or you could a Wacom tablet/pen with any software that allows you to draw on your computer, eg Photoshop, if you've got that in your bundle with Premiere.

Look at Ridley Scott's storyboards here playing with the actual scene in the film. You can see they're not precisely the same. many have several differences compared to the final shot..

Ryan Elder September 16th, 2019 12:17 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh ok. Yeah I've had several shots change later. I can just stick with pencil and paper, i just thought frame forge would make the blocking and camera work more clearly, if you can see it in motion, and just get a more clear idea. I can use photoshop, but you have no movement then.

Paul R Johnson September 16th, 2019 12:30 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
But then you'd spend all your shooting time trying to replicate the simulation, when the reality of the shot might dictate changes. Those storyboards in the clip are exactly what they need to be.

If you spend your time creating a pseudo-movie with a posh storyboard animated mini-feature, why make the movie?

At your state of development, it's a futile process. One thing I have learned is that if you duplicate scripts and shot lists, and other production documents, at the end of the rehearsal day, you will find loads just left laying around, and few show any sign of being read! Some people want them - indeed some people MUST have them, but others don't. Actors get paid to learn scripts. Your crew might be on their last job the day before, so when exactly, and how much will you pay them to learn script? If a director wanted me to do pre-planning work, I expect to get paid for it.

For what it's worth, in the rehearsal, most people used to booming will detect the other person about to speak quite easily, and it's only the occasional talk overs, or interrupts that need to be remembered, along with moves when the director does the blocking. On boom duty, you rarely have a hand free to make notes.

Brian Drysdale September 16th, 2019 01:14 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Animatic storyboards are useful for selling an advertisement to clients. But it's not worth all the work on the type of films you're making because you don't have the level of control nor the time to spend three or four days shooting each minute of screen time,

You can see the blocking with a few circles with points for noses (standing in for the actors) and camera symbol (where the camera is located) drawn on a plan of the set.

Ryan Elder September 16th, 2019 02:43 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh okay but i was advised before that i need to plan my shots better and more detailed so chances are they will be better if more planned out. So i thought this might help. Ryan Connolly on film riot says he uses it so i thought it must help him and his crews then. Unless it's just overkill then.

Josh Bass September 16th, 2019 03:07 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
If it helps YOU organize everything in your mind, then sure. What we're saying is it doesn't really mean jack squat on shoot day and may not help your crew. You'll need to be able to tell them what you want with your words, not drawings or computer generated images.

Paul R Johnson September 16th, 2019 03:21 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Never having heard of Ryan Connolly, I googled him and found lots of copied and pasted identical copy on all sorts of sites, but he simply said he used it, and didn't expand at all on why? Maybe he's rubbish at drawing> Maybe he's a computer savvy expert who finds it quicker? Maybe he uses it in depth, maybe he uses it to produce just a few pictures - we don't know. I certainly would not consider using something like this.

I have just spent a while watching some tutorials and it's so similar to the the 3D drawing software I have - but it has the same problems. Grab the park, and populate with people and objects - ONCE you have collected the thousands of objects you need. If you don't want the stock park, but one with some clearly identifiable features - then there isn't one available. It's simplistic and to be honest, I fear it's worse than the pictures we have worked from before. To mock up something with critical detail from stock components needs serious editing to get it to look right, and if it looks wrong, then it hinders, not helps.

I cannot imagine spending hours producing some renders in this way - it's just crazy. Sure - you can enter a field of view from your lens collection and work out how far away the camera has to be, but any competent cameraman can do this on site much, much quicker.

It's a wonderful product, but you couldn't seriously use this if time was costed in. It seems to manage textures in a very simplistic way, the whole thing looks like a computer game and it's just over the top for something that should be simple.

Brian Drysdale September 16th, 2019 04:39 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
You can plan a film in numerous ways, it doesn't have to be storyboarded within a inch of it's life, but you can still have spent a lot of time planning it. To be honest, if you can draw, I would use that method, rather than use FrameForge, it forces you to think more about the shot.

You need detailed plans of the sets to make full use of FrameForge and the only time I've had those is when the film has built sets in a studio.

Even the most detailed shot lists and storyboards are subject to change because something better comes up on the day or you haven't enough time, so you need to simplify everything.

Ryan Elder September 16th, 2019 06:54 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh okay, well I can draw then, if that's better. I was thinking of using these storyboarding books since they have 1.85:1 panels.

However, would it be better just to download a panel and print them off, and scan the good drawings back in, so all I have are the good ones? Or does having such books look more professional?

Paul R Johnson September 16th, 2019 11:40 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Five minutes in word, logo in the corner, done!

Brian Drysdale September 17th, 2019 01:11 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Create your own panels in Word with the logo, then print them out, do the drawings and put each page in a plastic sleeve and put these in a ring binder.

You can then add notes for the shots on a particular page into the sleeve. You've then got the option of either carrying the binder or the plastic sleeve. The latter means your page doesn't get wet in the rain.

Paul R Johnson September 17th, 2019 01:36 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
I've no idea why we're still doing this topic - for goodness sake, storyboards are first term subjects in GCSE Media studies. Once you start to make money and work for a living, do you really get excited by this kind off thing. I don't care if it's on computers or paper - they're just annoying tools to aid what you do. I'm currently being bombarded with paperwork. Lovely, pretty lists of what's on the truck, it's exact place in the pack, who it's hired in from, and dates for return. I know exactly what colour connector is on the end of a rubber cable, and I have pretty pictures of what things look like when they are built and setup. I don't need any of this. I really don't care where in a truck things are packed - the doors get opened and people hump the kit off and leave in piles. You can now get software to make this 'easier' - I laugh!

Storyboards are great ways to give people an idea of what's in your head. They show one, or two actors, or maybe a huge group, and in the background, the Eiffel Tower, or Statue of Liberty, or Buckingham Palace - that's it. everyone in the room now understands where and how the shot works. I've seen perfectly usable ones with stick figures, because the director couldn't draw. I've seen wonderful artistic ones that would do a comic book justice.

There's just one question with a storybook frame. Does EVERYONE who sees it, understand it? That's it. Sticking your branding on each sheet of paper is great, but why go further?

Brian Drysdale September 17th, 2019 02:38 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Storyboards are useful if you're dealing with VFX shots, where there is a team of people involved or if there's a sequence of visual action shots that cut together, less so if you're dealing with talking heads in a dialogue scene.

However, there's no need to show it to everyone in the crew, just the ones who you need to communicate with and block the scene out with. The storyboard doesn't block out a scene, it's a only starting point, which may get changed because the real world kicks in, in the end, you block the scene out with the actors and the camera crew.

Since you're using DLSR, you can use your camera as a director's viewfinder to check out your camera position and lenses with the DP.

Ryan Elder September 17th, 2019 05:01 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh okay thanks. I find that if I make changes, that more things go wrong with the shot though in the end. The last project, I decided to stick to the storyboards and blocking I had exactly, and I felt things went better, than being tempted or pressured to make changes later. So I thought it was best not to make changes if it can be helped.

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