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-   -   Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/537015-frameforge-worth-buying-storyboarding.html)

Ryan Elder September 18th, 2019 07:07 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh okay, I think I'm okay at drawing it out so I can try it that way.

I don't like making changes during shooting unless I have to because when you have the 30 degree rule, and the 180 degree rule already planned out on paper, changing any shots, may break those rules, without noticing at the time until later, I feel. So that is why I like to not make changes from now on, unless absolutely have to.

Brian Drysdale September 18th, 2019 07:14 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
You seem obsessed by a 30 degree rule, you can sense if there's going to be a problem as you shoot. People shoot documentaries on the fly that cut together beautifully and they probably don't know anything about the 30 degree rule.

Ryan Elder September 18th, 2019 07:33 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh well people have pointed out to me that my shots look too much the same when cut together before sometimes, and I was advised by a couple of other filmmakers that the 30 degree rule would help that.

Pete Cofrancesco September 18th, 2019 08:32 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
If you follow what you first learn in film making, wide establishing shot, medium, and closeup, you should be able to mix those shots anyway you like and not violate the 30 degree rule. It should be apparent when shooting any of those angels you can’t make a minor change to angle/zoom/camera position and expect you’ll be able to cut to it.

You’re probably taking shortcuts while filming and not taking the time to significantly change angle between shots.

Brian Drysdale September 18th, 2019 09:46 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
moving the camera progressively closer to the subject's eye line as you get tighter, so that CUs are close to the eye line, while wider shots are further from the eye line, This generally will keep you out of trouble.with any 30 degree rules, get the DP to move the camera and not just zoom in for the tighter shots.

Ryan Elder September 18th, 2019 10:12 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Well I would cut from a MCU to a CU but was told they are too much the same and and i have to change the degree of the angle more.

Brian Drysdale September 18th, 2019 10:31 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
You must've been very close to the eye line with the MCU. Is this a monologue or part of a dialogue scene with other actors?

Ryan Elder September 18th, 2019 12:20 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Its just with one actor so far. When you say eyeline, do you mean shots that are at face level, as oppose to looking up ay someone, or looking down? Or shots that are dead on, and not on a diagonal angle?

Brian Drysdale September 18th, 2019 01:06 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Eye line is the direction the subject is looking, in some cases that's going to define where the line is and allow you to move it.

Single actors doing a monologue are different to dialogue scenes with other actors, you need something to motivate the cut, for example, a head turn and a cut to a closer shot, together with a new camera position, will assist the cut.

Ryan Elder September 18th, 2019 02:37 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
YOh okay, well none of the shots were eyeline MCUs or CUs.

Brian Drysdale September 19th, 2019 12:41 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Ensure that your framing sizes sufficiently different i.e. you're not cutting from a tight MCU to a loose CU: that there's motivation for the cut, the action matches and you're not using the same camera position

With a monologue, you may have to have the subject move in order to motivate the cut, which can be a surprisingly small movement depending on the size of the shots (a pause to gather thoughts may be enough).

It can also depends on if the subject giving the monologue is directly addressing the camera i.e the viewer, when I would;t worry too much about about 30 degrees rules or some unseen person (real or imaginary) off screen, when 30 degrees could apply because it's staying within the world of the film

Ryan Elder September 19th, 2019 05:08 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh okay. Should these movements decided during shooting, and plan the cutting during shooting more, or is better to just let the actors perform as it may be more natural to them then, knowing that they don't have to turn their heads during certain lines and what not?

Brian Drysdale September 19th, 2019 05:47 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Any actor moves/action should be discussed with the actor as part of their performance. If they have to move heads on cues, give them a reason for doing it, so that it feels natural for them. It will come out of the script and the beats within it.

John Nantz September 19th, 2019 01:12 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder (Post 1953449)
... shots look too much the same when cut together ....

And it doesn't have to be just the 30º angle to make it look boring.

Speaking for myself, it can be difficult to watch a movie with my wife because she gets engrossed with the story while I’m looking at details in the shoot. For example, while watching Downton Abbey I frequently got really distracted because so many shots were obviously using the Rule of Thirds and it was so distracting. This is a very highly rated series with “a cast of thousands” (adding the actors and the production crew together), and a much bigger budget than the average person here has.

By contrast, the series Ballykissangel, from my viewer point of view, was easier to watch because the camera shots were more interesting. It seemed to me that Ballykissangel had more creative camera shots than Downton Abbey but then that may have been colored by the fact I also really enjoyed the series.

With Ballykissangel there were a number of creative shots where I wanted to remember what they did but now I’ve forgotten what they were. :-)

Even in the youtube “Ballykissangel Behind the Scenes - Part One”, it opens with the writer cutting to the Director and it seems so natural even though they are in a different setting. A following scene was with an interview (2:46) with two of the actors talking to someone beside the camera, who we never see, and it is so natural. Then there are the little parts like at 3:52. At 4:38 there was an annoying jump but from 5:13 > 6:20 were an interesting series of jump cuts and these worked well.

Another behind the scenes is "Ballykissangel Cast and Crew Full Episode" (long at 1.06:19)
The casting in this series was good and the Writer obviously liked the series. Writers often complain that any similarity between what they wrote and the movie is purely coincidental, or something like that.

Notice that the “Behind the Scenes” is all about the director, author, cast, storyline, personal reactions, and setting but nothing about the invisible production crew.

Bottom line, rules are not necessarily laws. In general, they are good guides depending on how they are implemented. The Rule of Thirds when constantly used can get very monotonous.

Josh Bass September 19th, 2019 01:48 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Maybe the ultra formal cinematography of downton abbey reflects the rigid people in the show?


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