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-   -   Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/537015-frameforge-worth-buying-storyboarding.html)

Josh Bass September 27th, 2019 04:25 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
As opposed to those murders the police just blow off?

Hopefully they mean business on every case and we dont need to be sold on that...

Ryan Elder September 27th, 2019 04:45 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh okay, why do other movies have briefing scenes then, if that's not the best scene to set the information in?

Brian Drysdale September 27th, 2019 05:05 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
How do they know who the suspect is?

Why is the SWAT squat there?

You can have briefing scenes, but it doesn't have to be standing in a briefing room and just talking with no dramatic content.

There's more going on in Red October than just exposition, there's a debate with the generals and the information is being fired at them. It's not a straight talk, he's arguing his case

This poses moral questions about what a democratic country should do in a terrorist campaign. It's not straight exposition, it pushes the viewer to consider what is right or wrong.

Ryan Elder September 27th, 2019 05:16 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh well a suspect was caught fleeing from near the scene and fit a similar description. A cop arrested him who spot him. So they have a suspect in custody, who is not talking, but want more on the others, who got away.

What about a briefing scene, where they are talking about a case, and about the evidence, such as the one in The Departed:

Brian Drysdale September 27th, 2019 05:29 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
There's stuff going on the background with this scene, so it's not straight forward and it doesn't waste time, it only lasts a couple of minutes, not 3 to 5 minutes.

You can't use straight exposition, it has to have buried a dramatic tension. In the case the cop giving the briefing is pure bad cop in how he presents himself to the world.

Ryan Elder September 27th, 2019 05:39 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh okay, well in my briefing, one of the cops is in on the crime, an inside man I guess you could say, and he is in the briefing listening to what they have so far. The audience would know this from the first sequence with him in at the crime as well. So I thought I had more going on than just exposition. But even though the inspector is talking about the case, doesn't the audience still want to hear what the police have so far, so they know where they are at? It might not take five minutes though, maybe just three, if that's better.

Paul R Johnson September 27th, 2019 10:48 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
In that case you have multiple contexts, so this creates the drama - the person doing the brief says something, your cutaways show how many understand it, however, the critical ones will be the responses of the inside man - his eye movements, his licking the lips, his give-away mannerisms, which will make this scene require a total rethink on how you shoot it. You've changed the entire meaning of the scene. It won't be a long lasting shot edit, but reactions to statements, so probably a much pacier edit.

Brian Drysdale September 28th, 2019 12:37 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
"The Departed" has a similar situation, but the audience knows this, so is aware of the fishing by the gang's cop in the inside for a possible undercover cop, it adds to the danger that the latter is in.

In your case, you'll have to work out how much the audience knows at this stage and if the briefing scene is a set up for the inside man being there or if it's part of the ongoing tension about how the case is going to be damaged by this cop..If it's going to be revealed later in the film you'll to play it either way, so that they do something that in hindsight is a set up.

You need to work out what the briefing scene is really dramatically about, a eureka moment? Is torture acceptable? The insider fishing for information?

Ryan Elder September 28th, 2019 01:44 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Actually after watching the scenes you posted when I got home, I was referring to a different scene in The Battle of Algiers. The briefing scene, where they talk about how the rebels could have smuggled a bomb past the checkpoint.

But for mine, the audience is fully aware that the cop is complicit in the crime since they saw him there before. And now seeing him here as a cop confirms that he is a cop now as well.

But as far coverage goes sometimes I will want to cut out a line of dialogue in past projects once I get to editing, but I can't cut out a line without there being a continuity flaw.

Like a person might be standing here, but then all of a sudden they have moved a few feet, or even sitting now, if you try to cut out a line or two.

I was told before to just cut to reaction shots if I want to do that of another character, cause then cut to reaction, then cut back and the line is now gone. But I was told also that this doesn't work cause if a character moves position, the audience needs to see it. Is that true?

Brian Drysdale September 28th, 2019 03:03 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
It probably won't work if they've moved a few feet, unless they've already started moving before the reaction shot. It depends on how much spatial information you're giving the audience about character's positions.

Paul R Johnson September 28th, 2019 06:16 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Frustration is creeping in - we're all saying exactly the same things, but Ryan = you must stop treating telling stories like some kind of prescription. If you cut, and do a cutaway then return and people have moved, this is first week edit class stuff - if you cannot see this, and seek some kind of 'it's ok when X does Y' - its not going to work. This is why script work is so important. The editor is not making up the story/narrative, the writer does this. The editor makes the idea work. Every shot needs planning. You were going on about how the storyboard was so vital, yet have missed it seems, the entire point of doing one!!

You MUST get a grip on this. The briefing scene sounds a complete train wreck - it hardly moves the story on, apart from in new style. This is just getting really silly.

Dave Baker September 28th, 2019 07:37 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
I'm just wondering. If this movie is finally made, will there be credits for the advisors here? E.g. Director of photography Paul R. Johnson, script consultant Brian Drysdale etc., etc. Just a thought.

Ryan Elder September 28th, 2019 12:04 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh ok if the briefing scene seems bad, what would be a better way to convey the information to the audience then?

Also, if it's the writers job to make sure the script is written so it doesn't need any cutting of dialogue in editing later, how is it that several movies can kind of lines and still remain continuous though?

Sorry, I don't mean to cause frustration, it's just whenever I do things my way, that I came up with myself, others say that's not the way to do it, and I should do this instead. And that leads me to think that there are other movies that to do it the same way as mine, but instead of using other movie examples, should I just best try to do it my way and explain why, my way?

Brian Drysdale September 28th, 2019 01:09 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
It's for you to discover other ways to reveal the information required by the audience.

Scripts can be slightly over length, it's not unusual, the film will go through a "rewrite" during the editing, what works on paper doesn't always work in the final piece. The actors' performances can add a lot and has to be taken into consideration during the editing. You have to be open.

Rewrites are always required during the writing stage, it's your job to explore better ways of doing things. Don't copy other films, find a new way or a twist in doing things. You may have to throw out many of your original ideas, that's normal. Let the characters in your story drive what's going on, not going your way,but following on their coat tails as they struggle and the vistas will open up.

If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Ryan Elder September 28th, 2019 01:34 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh okay. You mentioned how the case can be talked about in other rooms such as the firing range or the coffee room, it's just I don't see how changing the room makes it better, since it's the same conversation still.

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