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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old November 28th, 2008, 12:24 AM   #1126
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Before the EX1 or EX3 came out, you were using tape. Assume you had a Z1 for 3 years. How much tape did you use during that time, and what was the total cost for all your hdv tapes? I'm sure it would have exceeded the price of SxS cards.

If you can look at the situation this way, the Sony cards aren't as expensive as you think, in the long run. Plus they will always perform flawlessly at every setting.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 12:28 AM   #1127
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Ross, it'd be great to have more options that keep the EX1 door closed. Please let me know, and do post here, when you have your adapters commercially available.

In the meantime, what would be the advantage of your adapters vs Delkin, which also allows EX1 door to close, reportedly?

Thanks.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 02:17 AM   #1128
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In response to Perrone Ford,

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/969673-post1108.html


My point was that looking through this entire thread, we are seeing people hacking bits of memory cards, can't shut the door, error messages etc. Given that you (others) have just spent £5000 - £6000, or whatever that translates to in dollars. I am surprised that you are spending so much time and effort in trying to avoid buying the media which is custom made for the camera.

I agree it is totally overpriced, but surely your time and expertise has to be worth outlaying the extra cash.

Someone made the point that the film industry has always had problems, tape snarling, film breakage, hair in the gate, etc. I agree, and that is why I have chosen the tapeless option. What I don't want is a new problem to add to the now redundant list, i.e. Error messages in the middle of a shot, or cards that stick out on a damp day.

Keep looking for the ideal solution, I hope you find it, or better still write to Sony and put pressure on them to bring their sxs price down.

Good luck

Respectfully - Vincent

Last edited by Vincent Oliver; November 28th, 2008 at 03:11 AM. Reason: correction made
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Old November 28th, 2008, 04:24 AM   #1129
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Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
My point was that looking through this entire thread, we are seeing people hacking bits of memory cards, can't shut the door, error messages etc.
I believe the talk of error messages is to do with attempts to find out which cards work and which don't. The ones that don't give error messages, so they just don't get used.

Hacking bits of memory cards never struck me as a good idea. So just don't do it, the only downside then becomes the door doesn't properly fit on an EX1, and no problem at all on an EX3. Is that such a big deal?

I also don't think Sony are charging an unreasonable amount of money for the cards, given their performance. It's just that most people would be happy with a lower (whilst still adequate) performance most of the time. Just as most lunchtimes a MacDonalds may be quite good enough - you don't eat at a expensive restaurant every lunchtime, do you? If the cards become cheap enough to own enough for an entire shoot, is the absolute download speed so important anyway?

Ross - I like the Apollo story! I'm also reminded of the one about the WWII bomber that gets quoted in industrial psychology examples as an example of how NOT to design a system. Apparently the same style lever was used both for flaps and undercarriage, presumably the company thought "why bother producing two designs when one will do fine for both?" I don't know how much extra it would have cost to make the levers different shapes, but I suspect it was a tiny fraction of the amount put into making the engines etc as reliable as possible. If you were the accident investigator, would you put the inevitable crashes down to pilot error, or poor design?
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Old November 28th, 2008, 04:44 AM   #1130
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I also don't think Sony are charging an unreasonable amount of money for the cards, given their performance. It's just that most people would be happy with a lower (whilst still adequate) performance most of the time. Just as most lunchtimes a MacDonalds may be quite good enough - you don't eat at a expensive restaurant every lunchtime, do you? If the cards become cheap enough to own enough for an entire shoot, is the absolute download speed so important anyway?
OK, McDonalds is cheap and cheerful, but knowing what goes into the food so I avoid going in. No, I don't eat in expensive restaurants every day of the week, although I will not think twice about taking a client out for lunch in one. I certainly wouldn't think of taking my client into McDonalds, especially if they are spending a lot of money on a production. The same is true for shooting with "Economy" cards - your clients should be given the best at all times, even if it does mean extra investment in hardware.

I think we may be in danger of going round in circles here, so I am going to make this my last post on the subject.

Now, where are the creative threads? :-)
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Old November 28th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #1131
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I own 4 16GB Sony SXS cards, I shoot Mostly Corporate meetings and events some of my shoots are 8 hr multi-cam shoots. I was ready to buy 12 16GB SanDisk SXS cards at a cost of ($8400) before discovering SDHC. I purchased 12 of the Kensington Readers, 10 SanDisk 16GB cards, and 2 Transcend 16GB cards. I have shot four corporate events and two short films with this combo with no errors. I do not use the cards for Over cranking. With the money that I have saved, I pre-ordered two Canon 5d Mark II's. I think the quality on the SanDisk Cards is great, I also do still photography and I have never had a problem with any of my SanDisk cards or Transcend. Also SanDisk did help Sony Develop the SXS cards so I would think their quality control is pretty good. I have also talk with Sony Reps about the alternative media and shared the data with them the last time we talked the rep informed me that all the data had been forwarded to their marketing department. The SDHC combo may not be for everyone, but I am sure glad I discovered it.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 11:43 AM   #1132
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I never thought that discovering that SD cards would work in a cheap kensington adapter would turn in to such a monster thread that seems to be going round and round in circles.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 12:01 PM   #1133
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Alister
I think what we're seeing is pretty natural for this forum, just the size of the thread represents the number of interested parties in this topic.
I believe the cycle of events goes something like this -

1) wow! the EX1 - great quality - low price!
2) is this the next best thing? - HVX v EX1!
3) uh oh - cmos vs ccd, backfocus, battery boards, caveat!
4) red! scarlet! D90! D5ii!
5) P2 vs SxS! (aka more HVX v EX1)
6) the camera works, people! just shoot it! it's just a camera!
7) need more memory! V1.11!
8) hey look! cheap memory! Kensington! SDHC!
9) uh oh SDHC - no overcrank, boards stick out, caveat!
10) SxS prices! good Sony! Bad Sony!

I think it's not the same people going in circles, just more people joining in.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 12:37 PM   #1134
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Anyone tried the Transcend 150x SDHC Class 6 card?

http://www.transcendusa.com/Products...o=147&LangNo=0

Last edited by Gabriel Soares; November 28th, 2008 at 12:39 PM. Reason: New information
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Old November 28th, 2008, 01:01 PM   #1135
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Anyone tried the Transcend 150x SDHC Class 6 card?

Welcome to Transcend Website - 150x SDHC Class 6

Yes, overcranked up to 48 i think.
Not much faster, lot more money.

I'm using the normal transcend class 6 16gb. No problems.


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Old November 28th, 2008, 05:10 PM   #1136
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Originally Posted by Alex Raskin View Post
Ross, it'd be great to have more options that keep the EX1 door closed. Please let me know, and do post here, when you have your adapters commercially available.

In the meantime, what would be the advantage of your adapters vs Delkin, which also allows EX1 door to close, reportedly?

Thanks.
Hi Alex,

The card we are about to release will be functionally similar to the Delkin card, although I haven't actually laid eyes on one.

The main difference is that it will sell for less, there won't be any shortage as the first batch will be 4000 units. One of the reasons I went ahead with this design was the cost of the Kensingtons. It cost more for the freight than the card to users outside the US. One online seller actually quoted me twice the cost of the card in freight!

It's great that there are more alternatives to Sony SxS, with the Kensington, Delkin, and now our card. One of the reasons I bought the camera in the first place was that Sony promoted the camera as using non-proprietary cards unlike P2. The implication was that I could buy the cards from anywhere. But it quickly became apparent, that was not really the case.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 05:15 PM   #1137
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Will your adapter be available in the US locally?
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Old November 28th, 2008, 05:33 PM   #1138
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Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto View Post
Before the EX1 or EX3 came out, you were using tape. Assume you had a Z1 for 3 years. How much tape did you use during that time, and what was the total cost for all your hdv tapes? I'm sure it would have exceeded the price of SxS cards.

If you can look at the situation this way, the Sony cards aren't as expensive as you think, in the long run. Plus they will always perform flawlessly at every setting.
As a matter of fact I did use a Z1U for the last 3 years. I bought Sony tapes at $2.35 each. About $50/month, approx $1800 total for 3 years - basically the cost of (2) 16GB SxS cards. Except that either the client paid for the tapes in the end (and own them) or the tapes are on my shelf - very inexpensive acquisition archiving. I can't hand over an SxS card for that kind of money, and my clients would crap if I added $1800 to the invoice for "Media."
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Old November 28th, 2008, 06:14 PM   #1139
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Will your adapter be available in the US locally?
Hi Alex we are looking at that, but only if the delivered price can be kept under the Kensington/Delkin.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 06:36 PM   #1140
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Originally Posted by Ronn Kilby View Post
very inexpensive acquisition archiving. I can't hand over an SxS card for that kind of money, and my clients would crap if I added $1800 to the invoice for "Media."
You can hand over DVD-Rs with MXF files converted by ClipBrowser. I made one submission to a network that way.
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