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Old April 5th, 2009, 11:04 AM   #151
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680 frame grabs part 2

Here are the rest of the grabs, and examples of the vignette
Attached Thumbnails
Filter for IR contamination-680test9.jpg   Filter for IR contamination-680test10.jpg  

Filter for IR contamination-680test11.jpg   Filter for IR contamination-680test12.jpg  

Filter for IR contamination-680test13.jpg   Filter for IR contamination-680test14.jpg  

Filter for IR contamination-680test15.jpg  
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Old April 5th, 2009, 11:34 AM   #152
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I would like to comment on the green vignette issue. I too did a similar test like Derek and pointed the camera to a white wall. The vignette is alarming when observed in this way BUT in the real world, unless you are not filming a very pale plain background, the vignette is much less visible. I'm not saying it does not exist but it might be very easily missed by the client especially in event videos where the shots are usually short and change frequently and the shot consists of other eye catching moving images.

Also remember that if the resultant footage is seen on 40" or bigger screens, the eye will have to travel from the centre to the edge of the screen to really notice the vignette.

I'm not happy with the outcome but in the absence of any real alternative and in view of the horrible blacks being produced by the EX series, I must say that the 486 / True cut 680 is a must have for the time being for any EX camera owner.
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Old April 5th, 2009, 08:09 PM   #153
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I just picked up a 680 and have yet to do any tests, but it would have been SO nice for Sony to admit that their camera has a problem with IR and offer this filter to the folks who b**ch loud and long enough. I'm sure they would work out some sort of large purchase deal with Schneider/B&W to make this happen. I know it wouldn't make everybody happy, but it sure would have taken the sting out of having to pay almost $300 for one of the little buggers.
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Old April 7th, 2009, 10:28 AM   #154
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Black Is Back

Good news from Ryan Avery at Schneider. The Tru Cut 680 will be marketed as a solution for the IR issue with the EX cameras making it much easier for the filter to be obtained.

Schneider acknowledges that at full wide there will be a green/cyan vignette, but as many have found this is just not that noticeable unless against a light neutral background, and I have found zooming in to just 15mm will make it completely disappear. I personally feel the vignette is much less objectionable than the blacks going magenta anyway, and this filter only needs to be used when the IR issue is present. It is not a filter to leave on the camera all the time.

I also noticed I neglected to add one of my frame grabs.... the 6300K no ND with 680. Somehow I missed that grab, but the 680 worked perfectly in that shot as it did with all the others. (who'd want to shoot at f16 with an EX anyway?)

This filter really does the trick..... and no need for multiple filters to have to deal with it. No light loss either.

it's nice to be back in the black.
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Old April 7th, 2009, 10:35 AM   #155
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Thanks Derek.

I personally do NOT agree that "the vignette is much less objectionable than the blacks going magenta" - not under some circumstances, like a multi-camera shoots (that's why I sold away my 486 filter).

But at least we now know for sure what the current situation is.
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Old April 7th, 2009, 10:58 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Thanks Derek.

I personally do NOT agree that "the vignette is much less objectionable than the blacks going magenta" - not under some circumstances, like a multi-camera shoots (that's why I sold away my 486 filter).

But at least we now know for sure what the current situation is.
Hi, Piotr-
I can see where this would be a problem for you with muliti-cam shoots.... the only solution there would be if all the cameras were EXs and all using the 680.

I did notice that the vignette all but disappeared when zooming in to as little as 15mm. If you stay zoomed in somewhat, it should not be too much of an issue, but of course then you're limited in your framing.

Nothing's ever easy, is it?
good luck-
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Old April 7th, 2009, 11:13 AM   #157
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totally unacceptable

Zooming in to 15mm is a good solution?????????????????

I own the W/A lens for the EX-3. It's wide end is 4mm. No way will I consider the green cast acceptable. Maybe that works for wedding videos but not for the clients I serve in broadcast, commercials and corporate.
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Old April 7th, 2009, 01:09 PM   #158
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As I have repeatedly said..... none of the solutions are perfect. I'm happy with the filter, but realize it's limitations. If I need something to be black that is not due to the IR contamination, at least I know I can resolve it. It remains to be seen how much the green cast will be a problem, but I know I can get around that, too if I sacrifice going too wide.

I think with this issue, it's all about compromises. At least until Sony figures a way to resolve it.
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Old April 7th, 2009, 02:33 PM   #159
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Is the 486 the same filter as the True cut 680?
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Old April 7th, 2009, 03:06 PM   #160
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yes one is the name for the square 4x4 filter , the other for the round one
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Old April 7th, 2009, 03:23 PM   #161
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I just got off the phone with Tiffen and spent a bunch of time talking to Art Adams. As far as I can see there has not been a good reason Tiffen didn't make the IRND filter without ND . They thought this was a specific problem relating to ND issues and they didn't realize that the EX-1 behaved differently from other cameras. They thought it was the same as the Red.

The upshot is they said they will try to make a version of the IRND filter that eliminates the ND part , so it will be a yellowish green filter that you will need to white balance through

Cross your fingers, hopefully we'll know about this within a month.

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Old April 7th, 2009, 07:25 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
I just got off the phone with Tiffen and spent a bunch of time talking to Art Adams. As far as I can see there has not been a good reason Tiffen didn't make the IRND filter without ND . They thought this was a specific problem relating to ND issues and they didn't realize that the EX-1 behaved differently from other cameras. They thought it was the same as the Red.

The upshot is they said they will try to make a version of the IRND filter that eliminates the ND part , so it will be a yellowish green filter that you will need to white balance through

Cross your fingers, hopefully we'll know about this within a month.

Lenny Levy
Excellent. Please keep us posted.

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Old April 7th, 2009, 07:38 PM   #163
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Since I grade all my shots in Apple's Color, it's not a major deal to create and apply a color-correction vignette during post to deal with the green vignette problem.

Of course it would be best if we didn't have to compensate at all. But if getting good blacks throughout is of primary importance, then such workarounds may have to be tolerated for now.

In my own case, it's a toss-up. If I do get a filter, it means I have to get a larger mattebox since the mattebox I have now won't fit around Sony's 0.8x WA adapter. And I'd have to get a filter for both cameras.
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Old April 8th, 2009, 10:14 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
Is the 486 the same filter as the True cut 680?
The 486 and the Tru-Cut 680 are manufactured with similar processes and are designed to create the same cut rate. Both cut around 680nm so the effect is the same on the Sony EX cameras.

Ryan Avery
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Old April 8th, 2009, 12:11 PM   #165
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Here's a horrible example of how the EX1 behaves with standard lens and how a 486 instantly fixes a very nasty problem.

The materials which really suffer are man-made "silk look" products, the lapels on the male singer, but mostly the conductor whose shirt was black, as well as various other parts of suits and dresses.

Paul
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Filter for IR contamination-486-filter.jpg   Filter for IR contamination-without-486-filter.jpg  

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