High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

[Sebastian Pichelhofer]

Hey Matteo

There is no satisfying way to remove rolling shutter distortion in post.
The only way is a hardware based global shutter.

BUT: The problem is mostly exaggerated.
The effects are far not as strong or distracting a some people claim them to be. These distortions are the same for ALOT (if not ALL CMOS based) professional cameras including Canon HV20, HV30, Sony A1, EX1 and 3 and YES for the Red One as well and many more.

But yes, we need to deal with the issue in the future But there can only be a hardware based solution

[Matteo Pozzi]

thanks for the reply
I know the problem but I think that using / fixing the master clock of the sensor to 96MHz could reduce it a lot :-)

[Jose A. Garcia]

One year ago I tested the same sensor. The rolling shutter effect was almost unnoticeable at 96Mhz.

[Oscar Spierenburg]

Hi Sebastian (and others),

I'm wondering if it'll be a good idea to buy one of those 7" mini laptops (UMPC) to make the camera portable. Can you tell if the hard-disk recording on the camera works well enough so the (slower) inexpensive laptops will work. I don't need the preview function because of the optical viewfinder I built for the camera. I know that the ultimate goal is a mobile phone controlling the camera, but such a small laptop is not a bad start. I noticed that a lot of them run on Linux (Xandros).

[Sebastian Pichelhofer]

Originally Posted by Oscar Spier

Hi Sebastian (and others),

I'm wondering if it'll be a good idea to buy one of those 7" mini laptops (UMPC) to make the camera portable. Can you tell if the hard-disk recording on the camera works well enough so the (slower) inexpensive laptops will work. I don't need the preview function because of the optical viewfinder I built for the camera. I know that the ultimate goal is a mobile phone controlling the camera, but such a small laptop is not a bad start. I noticed that allot of them run on Linux (Xandros).

Yes, I am using an EeePC 900A which here in Austria cost me only 300€.
Performance ist not an issue at all.
I already tested live streaming to this laptop and it worked quite well for lower resolutions(lower than the laptop screen which is 1024x600). I had no luck streaming full HD to this device though.

I think even the cheapest UMPC is sufficient for controlling the elphel browser windows.

Harddisk recording works so well that I newer even thought about testing the DVR setup.

The only issue I spotted so far was that the camvc interface is higher than the 600 pixels screen(especially with browser menues and toolbars) so you need to scroll down if you want to change exposure, etc.

About the OS:
Xandros ships with EeePCs and a simple mode (with big buttons and simplified navigation) is preconfigured for everyone who has first contact with linux.
You can then switch to a "full desktop mode" which sadly works poorly. Xandros in default full desktop mode didn't support half of the laptops insternal hardware and programs like openoffice would refuse to start.
So I installed Ubuntu using an USB Stick and since then everything worked like a charm.

[Oscar Spierenburg]

That's good to hear. So you don't use the live-DVD that comes with the camera? Was it easy to install all the software needed for Elphel? I was planning to install Ubuntu to my hard drive, but I was afraid to mess up my Windows Vista. Using a cheap small laptop only for the camera will make things a lot easier.

[Andrey Filippov]

I would not recommend staying with the OS preinstalled on EEEPC - switching to (K)ubuntu needs some initial setup (nicely covered on the Internet), but after that you can easily add any of the packages available for Ubuntu - there are much-much more of them than for Xandros. I've (actually my kids) got 3 of EEEPCs (in the order of availability) - 7, 9 and 10 - the largest one has a useful for adults keyboard

[Oscar Spierenburg]

Andrey/Sebastian,

I noticed someone wrote on the Elphel wishlist on wiki: "Flash mode for rolling shutter"
Would this be some kind of semi-global shutter?

[Sebastian Pichelhofer]

I have no idea.

I posted this on the Wishlist:Talk page:

Interesting suggestions Kimstick! Could you please give us more details what you mean with :

* Flash mode for rolling shutter
* Lens distortion hardware correction

Why would you want the camera to be a motor/servo controller?

[Sebastian Pichelhofer]

Great news everyone!

Camogmgui version 0.5 is released.

Changelog:
* It's a real GUI now, not just a list of buttons and settings
* you don't need to be a Linux guru anymore to record video -> no more shell command typing, the application takes care of everything
* fancy filebrowser that can be used to download files as well
* more advanced settings/features (timelapse, file split after certain size or length, renaming video file after recording, etc.)

More infos and download in the elphel wiki: Camogmgui - ElphelWiki

[Steven Mingam]

Hi Sebastian,

Would it be possible to get a sequence (like 1 sec) of the JP4 files you used in the impressive sample you posted previously ?
I just wrote an small avisynth filter that reorder such file to "raw" and debayer them in vdub using a DFAPD filter (i still need to re-write my own avisynth plugin) so I would like to compare the output.
Using Avisynth should simplify the workflow (open the image sequence... get debayered RGB video in any application :)), at least to people using Windows.

Thanks !

[Thomas Kumlehn]

Great news ! Thank you very much ...

[Thomas Kumlehn]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Pichelhofer

While I now wait for my Elphel camera to arrive I started working on the next big project:

A new Elphel camera body especially designed for professional filmmakers.
Working title for now is the "Elphel Cinevision"

It will be a lot bigger than the current surveillance like camera body and should have enough room for 2 swapable CF cards and 1.8" or 2.5" HDDs. There will be some custom battery pack solution and an HD LCD display at some point.

The first thing I started to toy around was designing an exchangeable lens mount that is not just an adapter ring.

The image below shows the (not assembled) lens mount parts.
The lens mount plate can contain mounts for C-Mount, PL-Mount, Canon, Nikon, ....
I also had the idea of adding rods to the mount plate.

What do you think of this so far?

Question:
What CAD app did you use ?

I think about doing a stereo3D "duoElphel" body with micrometer dials for imager shift and maybe adjustable stereo base.

What holds me back yet is the new class of proprietary cams using the next gen KODAK chip with 12bit FullHD quad output up to 64fps that might better suit cinema needs.
Given the now outdated KODAK CCD options of the 3xx series, I very much hope Elphel also looks into this. I'm a software guy and not able to do Hw design yet.


Suggestion:
I guess the middle part will be very tricky to manufacture with CNC (Unterschneidung).

Do you know the IMS (Interchangeable Mount System) from P+S Technik (Munich) ?
It's probably much more expensive than self made gear, but comes with most lens mounts available.

[Sebastian Pichelhofer]

Originally Posted by Steven Mingam

Hi Sebastian,

Would it be possible to get a sequence (like 1 sec) of the JP4 files you used in the impressive sample you posted previously ?
I just wrote an small avisynth filter that reorder such file to "raw" and debayer them in vdub using a DFAPD filter (i still need to re-write my own avisynth plugin) so I would like to compare the output.
Using Avisynth should simplify the workflow (open the image sequence... get debayered RGB video in any application :)), at least to people using Windows.

Thanks !

Great to hear about ongoing progress, keep it up!

I uploaded 25 of those jp4 jpegs:
http://www.oneartplease.com/elphel/jp4s.rar

@Thomas:

I used Solidworks for the original plans, which are about to change a little atm.

"Die Unterschneidung" could be solved by doing 2 pieces and screwing them together.

We once used a Canon XLH1 and P+S 35mm Adapter but I can't really remember much of the mount system.

[Sebastian Pichelhofer]

With version 0.6 we are nearing the final 1.0 release of camogmgui.

* sensor state info added
* added some help text
* quicktime *.mov is now the default format
* the filebrowser can now go into subfolders, also create them or set them as target for recordings
* live video preview image added in expandable tab
* tabs remember their state across page reloads
* bug fixes

Details and Download: Camogmgui - ElphelWiki


And I am working on a more advanced hardware concept for a new body.
More about this here soon...