That's interesting. I like the compact PalmCorders a lot and I do use Panasonic tapes. I realize the compact models are more expensive. One of the great benefits of the PalmCorders is that the tapes eject from the side or top, not the bottom.

I'll take another look at the regular PalmCorders. Thanks.

I use the ZR40 as a deck, and as a "fun" camera. (who wants to lug out an XL1 for birthday parties?)
It works great as a deck. I've used the Sony clamshell style (can't remember the model) portable deck, and don't think it was that much better (except for the LCD).
Plus you can't beat the price.

I opted for a JVC dual deck SR-VS30U. Not cheap, but does a great job. Also allows 1-touch dubbing between MiniDV tapes & VHS or S-VHS tapes -- either direction!! Additionally, I mounted a 19 in. Panasonic from WalMart's on top as monitor for both my editing-in-process work (using Pinnacle Edition) and for reviewing the tapes and cataloging them, which is a pain using a camera deck.

Greetings,

As some of you know, I am a student and cannot afford a real mini DV deck to go along with my GL2 although I have my eyes on the Panasonic AG-DV1000 or the AG-DV1DC. I want to use my Optura Pi as a deck. The Optura Pi has gone through much stress and wear. I mixed many many tapes with Sony, TDK, and Panasonic tapes. With some of those tapes reused like 10 times or more. It was my first camcorder as I was introduced to digital video and NLE. The question is, after years of stress on the video heads of the Optura Pi, wouldn't it effect quality of the footage shot in my GL2 when playing back or importing into my NLE computer? I come to ask because to me, it sounds like debris (i.e. from lubricants of the tapes) on the heads from all that mixing can possibly makes its way onto the tape shot with my GL2. This also leaves a fear if I want to playback or record over the tape with my GL2. My Optura Pi has gone through much abuse, the dents in the body proves it.

Good Day, Phong.

Chances are, that the heads on your old unit need to be re-aligned, after long use.

Over all, I would guess that the GL2 has far superior electronics, to any prosumer equipment more than 3 years old.

Frankly, I would opinion, that you are the only one in position to determine the quality of any transfers between units.

The rest of us would be just guessing.

Good Luck.

I dunno I tried using my GL-1 as a deck for my DVX100 and for some reason I was getting a crackling noise in my audio. At first I thought it was distortion from the original recording but I tried capturing the tape right through the DVX100 and the audio crackle went away. Apparently that proves that some DV cameras aren't apt for capturing DV shot on another camera- why, I don't know.
So using and old worn out deck might not end up being your bottleneck. Just a heads up.
As far as the quality being any less I doubt it. It's digital it's either on or off....in other words if it's going to be glitched in some way it'll be in such a way it's easily noticeable.

Glen,

Off hand I would suggest that your auto gain control of the audio on the receiving instrument, may have been engaged. It would therefore bring up an awful lot of crap.

If it can be switched off, give it a try.

I would also reiterate, any electronics over 3 years old, unless it is commercial, just can't handle the new equipment. Improvements have been that quick; and, that good.

I've been using my XL1s as my record deck from the computer. I was recently told it might be better if I got another, cheaper deck for this task (so as not to grind the gears and whatnot). The person suggested a Canon ZR-60. Does anyone else have an opinion on this or any other possible (cheaper) deck solutions?

Thanks
Annie Cheatham

You could even use an older ZR45 (or ZR50, ZR55), which you may still be able to find available in certain stores with a warranty and which should cost noticeably less than a ZR60.

- don

You can buy a Canon ZR40 for around 350.00 dollars. I have one I use to mount to helicopter skids for exterior shots and other remote uses, and as recording deck for remote external lipstick-cams.

The picture quality is good, but noticeably inferior to the XL-1 in a side by side comparison. Then again what "isn't" inferior to the XL-1?

I used to use my XL-1 as a deck. That will eventually cost you $280.00 in tune-up costs at the Canon factory - which, by the way, I highly recommend.

My suggestion would be to save up for a real deck. I bought a brand new JVC HR-DVS2 on eBay for 800.00. Before you choke on the price - this is a dual deck system that consists of a DV deck and a Super VHS deck. Not only can I import clips from the DV deck and VHS deck, but I can also copy dv--->VHS, and dv<---VHS. And it saves my XL-1 wear and tear.

My philosophy is, if you can't afford it now, wait and save until you can. The short term, quick fix solution will always cost more in the long run, than it would have to buy the quality product.

Get the right product the first time.
(and trust me, I am not a rich person, but I have learned the joys of selling my no-longer-used toys on eBay to fund new equipment.)

If you stick with that philosophy, Eric, you may well become a "rich man". I really agree wholeheartedly. While the inexpensive-camcorder-as-deck may seem like a good, cost-conscious choice I've never endorsed it. Camera tape transports are just not designed for the back-and-forth cueing motions that capture often requires. Ultimately, if your capture needs are frequent and demanding, the camera-deck will crap-out prematurely. If, at that point, you decide to buy a true deck you've essentially paid the price of the camera-deck as a substantial penalty tax.

I've used a Panasonic AG-DV1000 deck for over two years with no problems whatsoever. I believe it's been discontinued in favor of the AG-DV2000.

Hi Eric,

Maybe you can help me figure out a problem I'm having with the JVC HR-DVS3U I just bought. When I plug it in with 'firewire' my PC tells me it can't find the software needed to install the thing (XP). If I work around the error messages I can capture, but there are artifacts and glitches when I get it on the timeline (VV4). I took the deck to a recording shop, they hooked it up to two different PC's using XP, and it captures "beautifully." They're telling me it must be my firewire card, which happens to be a VIA VT6306. Interestingly enough, we've tried it on two PC's and had the problem on both. I've researched until I'm ready to give up: Both JVC and VIA say their card doesn't need drivers; XP doesn't list any drivers for either the deck or the card.

Any thoughts?

...responded to Lorinda via e-mail.

Would anyone know a good DV VCR deck that will play the Canon XL1s tapes? I tried the Sony GVD-1000 Mini DV VCR but it didn't work. The picture was decent, but the sound was very choppy and sometimes didn't play at all. Very jumpy.

I've heard that some decks don't play the XL1s tapes very well, because of the recording speed? Do you know anything about this?

Is there a reliable deck out there that doesn't have any problems with the XL1s?

Thank you.

I've had good luck with the Panasonic AG-DV2000.

And you are using the Canon XL1s?

No glitches or jumps?

I'm using 3 different Canon XL-1 cameras (no "s"). Works just fine until one of the Canon's heads starts to get out of alignment. Then it's time to ship that camera back for repair.

I use both the Panasonic DV2000 and the DV1000. NEVER had a problem, and I shoot both the XL-1 and the XL-1s. Bob Safay

what's the difference between the 1000 and 2000?

is it noticable?

I am editing using Premiere 6.5. does it matter how many lines the VTR has? I see that the 2000 has over 500 horizontal lines. will this give a higher quality image than the DV 1000?

Will I get a better image by using my XL1s to export footage to my PC?

I shoot XL1 and Gl1. No probelms with playback of tapes in tapes in Sony DHR-1000 or GV-D300.

If you are recording in LP mode that may give you a few more problems. SP mode should work better (no change in resolution between SP & LP). Some people will use almost any dv device to use as a substitute deck.

There is a BIG difference. The DV1000 is a basic DV deck. Play, record, pause, a few audio ajustments. The DV2000 is an editing deck with frame accurate dials, and the capability to store edit in and out points of multipal scenes, edit scenes, and, it can control either a DV1000 or an LX-1 or 1s via firewire. It also allows you to record video over audio, insert new audio over video, or mix audio. It is much bigger and has a removeable control panal. The end product is truely beautiful. I use it to do my master tapes. Bob Safay

the Sony DSR-1800, the DSR11 or the DSR25...

is it possible to play back or capture 24p footage from a DV deck that has been filmed with the DVX100? i understand the camera peforms a 3:2 pulldown but does this process take place from the actually filming to tape or from camera to NLE?

Thanks

Yes. Check the resources at the top of this forum for detailed info as this topic is covered in great detail there and in a number of threads.

I don't know much about the 25 or the 1800 but I've had the DSR11 for 6 months now & it's great. Worth every penny.

I may need a deck that has component video output. Any suggestions? DSR-45?

my DSR-45 has been typical Sony, great so far, 4 months old.
S-video, DV, and component. this has saved me many headaches being able to switch between the source types. no black burst box yet and my Beta 1800 wont talk to the DSR-45, so, straight to S-Video. Plus there is real cool factor to that tiny monitor. its pretty useless for any thing other than video verification, though.

<<<-- Originally posted by Gary Chavez : Plus there is real cool factor to that tiny monitor. its pretty useless for any thing other than video verification, though. -->>>

Actually my application would not be editing, but playback of video cues being sent to a projector as part of a multi-media production. I need component video to get the best results with a large DLP projector that takes component as the native input format. The little screen would be useful to preview and advance to the next cue.

Not sure if this is the best route for us, there are also software applications specifically for this but they're probably overkill for our needs...

Component output from DV is a waste of time. DV totally sucks compared to any other component recording format.

If image quality is important, put DV at the bottom of your list of possible choices.

Convenience and ubiquity are the only things DV has going for it.

bogiesan

i dunno, im getting broadcast quality video from DV. that is my standard though.

<<<-- Originally posted by Erik Selakoff : I don't know much about the 25 or the 1800 but I've had the DSR11 for 6 months now & it's great. Worth every penny. -->>>

ditto

Hello,

I also have the HR-DVS3U and have been having the same problem as Lorinda. What's the secret to getting this to work with XP Pro?

Lyle

I'm using the same deck w XP-Pro and never knew there was a problem. I'm also using Premiere 6.5 so not sure if that makes any difference but I would be glad to share any settings you may be interested in. I do know that I did not load any drivers ect..

Eric,

If your response to Lorinda is something that others could learn by, could you repeat it here?

Cheers!

Hi Guys,

Eric thought maybe my cheap firewire card could be causing a problem. I bought a Pyro card but it didn't help.


Back at the shop where I bought the deck, we conducted some tests. We ruled out XP as the problem, because it worked fine on two PCs there. Interestingly enough, tapes from other cameras looked great through the deck, including one shot with a GL1. We checked our tapes from those shot back when each of our cameras was new, to those shot recently--all had artifacts and audio drop-outs, ruling out dirty heads.

We then looked at our tapes in a Sony deck (cost around $2000; sorry, I didn't ask what model) and our stuff looked just fine.

All the dealer can figure is that our XL1s's--both of them--have misalignments and that the JVC deck can't handle the error correction as well as a higher-end deck.

My first camera is in California right now for service and repair. If they correct any misalignment, I might not be able to playback the old tapes with it. This could get interesting.

Hope this is of some help to you, Lyle, though not good news. We were able to return the deck and will just use the cameras till they wear out.

Hello, Nigel.

My e-mail to Lorinda suggested swapping out her capture card for a different model. My suggestion was based on her description of "taking the deck to a recording shop, they hooked it up to two different PC's using XP, and it captures "beautifully" , and trying the least expensive fix first.

The card she had, and the card she tried were both sub-$50.00 cards. The second card she tried was a "Pyro", but that didn't fix her problem.

Without actually being there, it's difficult to picture and troubleshoot exaclty what is going on. I have a similar deck that I connect to a Win 98 machine, and an XP machine, and neither machine has viewed the deck as a piece of hardware that required a driver. It works seamlessly - as it is suppose to.

It's a mystery to me....

Sorry Lyle--I forgot the original question about the error message with XP Pro. That one is an absolute mystery, because with the new firewire card, the first time I tested the machine I didn't get the error message, though the results on the monitor were the same. When we tried the new card in another PC, however, we still got the 'searching for A/V tuner' and subsequent error message! Talk about frustration...

Are there any consumer decks for Mini DV that wont cost you an arm and a leg (for the house)

Not really. Depends on what your body parts are worth.

$1200 is about the minimum for a deck. Many people use a cheap minidv cam. Some chose one that will also transcode so they can capture and playback analog.

At $1200, they don't stand up to much heavy use. I've purchased a few of the JVC dual decks for the local college. They work OK and will transcode from VHS/S-VHS directly to the DV connector and vice-versa. But they are not nearly as rugged and reliable as my Sony DSR-20. Course I could buy 2 of the JVC consumer decks for the single Sony.

I lead the "Camcorder as a deck" camp. At around $350 for a basic one, which is all you need, you can throw them in the garbage and buy a new one every year or two, compared to the price you pay for the cheapest miniDV deck.
Plus, you can use them as portable miniDV TV/VCRs with the built in LCD, which is a great feature.

Oh, and guess what? They are also video cameras! :)

Do understand that there is a world of difference between the tape transport functions of a pro deck and a miniDV camera. If time is not important and you don't need to record anything over 60 (83) minutes in SP, hten they may be right for you.

I need to be able to master 3 hours of video onto one tape and occasionally have to ship that length of tape off for duplication or to a broadcast customer. Being able to ship out DVCam tapes long or small is important to my business.

Howdy ho,

Due to some recent problems with my Canon XL-1 I need to invest in a play deck to digitize from. I am one of many poor filmmakers so am not able or willing to spend thousands of dollars for a broadcast quality deck.

How viable are the Sony GV-D1000, GV-D300 and the GV-D300 Walkman series as options? I need to be able to connect the deck to my laptop via firewire and I need the deck to be able to read tapes that were recorded with either the SONY PD-150 or the Canon XL-1.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Beth

I believe but am not totally sure that these DV walkmans have the same transports in them as the camcorders.A lot of folks here use inexspensive camcorders as decks to transfer footage to computer etc..

Thanks, I think I'm attracted to getting a cheapy deck as I could then make dubs from my camera.

Just wanted to make sure the walkman could play tapes that were created from either a Canon OR a SONY.

Basa

Yes DV is just 1s and 0s when you break it down it should play the miniDV tapes back fine. If the tapes are recorded in DVCAM mode on the 150 you may have trouble with certain cams not being able to play back the tape though.

Thanks Matt, have you used or do you know of anyone who has used the SONY Walkman Mini-DV players as their playback and record deck?

I'm on the verge of buying one through SONY as they seem to be the most affordable.

best,

Only the D100 is miniDV according to the Sony site. The lesser numbered models are all digital8...not the same by any measure.

For the price of the GV-D1000 you could buy a chep palmcorder and have some change left for accessories. (Not to mention the spare cam!)

I would also wonder if these WalkMan devices have consumer decks (same as in palmcorders) or pro decks? If they are consumer decks, then a palmcorder might be a better value.

No i do not use or a Sony DV walkman deck but I'm sure they work great just a little exspensive for me.You could get a Panasonic or low end JVC deck for about the same price but they dont include the built in LCD screen but im sure the tape transports are more robust and they have more in/out options as well. i do use a Sony PC-110 to transfer my VX2k footage to my mac. The PC-110 was by no means a "cheap' cam but it was the first cam i bought and since the VX2k I dont use the 110 to shoot with much anymore except when a 2nd cam is needed.I would opt for the inexspensive camera over the walkman deck.

I've been using the gvd-1000 for over a year now and it works great, never have had a single problem with it. The lcd screen comes in handy as well. I'd say it's totally worth it.

Corey