Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

The codec is awesome, but the sensor is the same as in the Xperia Z1, a cell phone. There is guaranteed to be noise at 0db no matter what with a cell phone sensor.

Slap the RX100's sensor in a 1'' adapted lens in an ENG form and that's actually a winner. The pro version of the recently announced AX100 will surely be better than the Z100 by a longshot.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I'm also waiting for the Sony FDR-AX100/B with a one inch sensor. I also own the Canon 1DX and was hoping their most recent firmware change would include the ability to shoot small (limited time because of overheating) 4K clips at 24fps. Oh well. I'll have to use my Sony FS700 for that.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

... and by several thousand $$$, too :)

Seriously though, if Sony is indeed releasing a new, pro 4K model soon, it needs to have the Z100 codec, media and lens but a larger sensor. Whether it should be the still photography derived one (as in the AX100) is an open question; it probably won't be the S35 (this department is already populated quite densely by other Sony models), so it might be a '1 inch-type' as they put it, but it better have 16x9 aspect and fewer pixels, all used for 4K and - by being larger - offering yet greater S/N and sensitivity...

I know, I know - this would mean releasing an all new sensor, which would inevitably mean higher price. But I guess that within the 4k realm there is a place for this kind of sensor - smaller than S35 for larger DOF, but larger than Z100/A1 and populated by fewer/larger pixels for better sensitivity.

Such a camera - if only the price is held lower than say the FS700+any 4k recording solution available today - would certainly be my favorite toy for the retirement days (sigh :().

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I believe the sensor is the same as in my HX30V. I do not see noise on my FDR-AX1 compared to my NX5U which has to be my reference or for that matter to my CX700 or NX30U. Sony have various sensors at roughly this size so may not all be exactly the same. For instance the new AS100V is also this size but the old AS30 is also roughly the same size but with slightly different pixel counts.

How did you view the output ? Downscaling in software using Laczos 3 produces a better picture than internal HD output from the HDMI. At least that is what I have found for my FDR-AX1. The file can take a lot more post corrections too than AVCHD and retain its resolution. My reason for the FDR-AX1 was also to crop and pan. Crops I have done in the theatre are as good as the image from the CX700 or NX30 with similar high gains so I too wish it was more light sensitive but so far it does work for me. For really dark situations it is not as clean as the CX700.

I would like 60P so the AX100 may not fit the bill . Will see when the review appear.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I viewed footage through my editing rig which is Premiere CC on a Mac Pro with Quadro 4000 to a Dell 27" IPS display. I do photography editing on this setup too and it shows every flaw which is why the 1Dx and 5D mk3 are my workhorses…super clean! The XF300 was not perfect but showed significantly less noise.

Will report today's findings as I want to try a couple more things.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

#SonyPro 4K Road Trip: Footage from the PXW-Z100 camera by Chuck Fishbein

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Well, I ended up sending the camera back. In my studio which has a green screen cyc wall, I just could not get a clean, easy to key video from it. This was under proper lighting that has worked on many of my cameras as well as various client's cameras for the past three years. Tried just about every iteration of setting on the camera and none worked for what I need. Just too noisy even at 0db. Bummed but moving on… 4K will have to wait.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I personally am waiting for the camera that's going to be released after the AX100 and it's pro variant. If Sony adopts MFT or updates their APS-C video line, (NEX-EAxx line) that's going to be where a balance of sensor size and price could hit the sweet spot. For those that can't afford S35 and RAW recording, it could be the next best thing.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

This might have been discussed already as I may have overlooked this in this massive thread ... but upon reading the "Overview" section of this camera on the Sony website, it states:

"With current NLEs, spanned clips cannot be combined. Depending on NLE, audio may be discontinuous at the breaks."

Not having experience myself with recording to a two card setup, is this normal?

And if so, is it just an adjustment (to re-connect the footage seamlessly together again) that is done manually in the NLE?

AC

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Robert, does this include your DSLR's regarding your "many cameras"?

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

With my AVCHD cameras and the FDR-AX1 I always use the Sony transfer software not NLE. This brings the files across without problems and for AVCHD will combine into a single file renamed by date and time . I was disappointed with the transfer of XAVC-S from my FDR-AX1 in that the files still stay named C0001 etc and just get put in folders of the correct date taken. Clips spanning cards are not joined either, unlike AVCHD, but do butt together with no loss of video or audio on the timeline. I hope that in future updates this will be changed back to renaming the files like AVCHD . I think these 4K cameras have been rushed to market and should be viewed as pre-release really until their firmware update makes all the features work. In good light the FDR-AX1 gives, for me, a lovely image compared to my other cameras. I too wish its low light was better but for the few shoots I have done it has worked as I expected as I had no illusions as to its performance from the specs.

Something has to give to shoot 4K with a 20x zoom etc and the competing products with this spec cost many times more dollars so better be a superior performance !!! Sony are now giving some choices. FDR-AX100 ( XAVC-S 8bit at 30P 12x zoom ), FDR-AX1 ( XAVC-S 8 bit 60P 20x zoom ), PXW-Z100 ( XAVC 10bit 20x zoom ), FS700R + ( your choice...), F5/F55 ( your choice) and I expect even more choices. It would be nice but unlikely to get a $2000 camera to compete successfully with one that cost over $10,000. Or for $5000 against something that costs more for the body before one buys any lenses !!!



Ron Evans

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Many thanks for that info. Ron!!

This cam seems awesome (spec wise).

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I have shot with my 1Dx, 5Dmk3 and a 5D mk2 and 7D as b-cams on the green screen with no issues. Not for broadcast use though…web delivery. The XF300 worked great for broadcast.
BTW, picked up a C100 with Ninja 2…whole different world of clean, crisp video…and with bokeh if I want it!

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

WOW ... that's quite disappointing to hear that cams with 4:2:0 can pull a cleaner image for keying (green screen) than this cam that is 4:2:2.

Thanks for the info. Robert!!

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Why would you think that? Those DSLR's have sensors more than 5 times larger in area so I would be very disappointed if they did not out perform a sensor less the 1/2" and likely with lenses that may cost a lot more than the whole PXW-Z100 if you want anything close to 20x !!! I am not defending these Sony's but pointing out that one needs to compare apples to apples. B&H prices are $5499 for PXW-Z100, a Canon EOS 1DX is $6799 just for the body no lens and if one wants 4K one needs to go to the C version at $11999 still no lens and needs external recorder too. C500 $20K and still needs lenses and external recorders as the internal recorder is only 50Mbps !!! If you want high performance then these ( FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100) may not be the best choices but they do work within their useful ranges very well in my limited experience and at prices less than a good lens for a high end camera !!! If you do not need 4K then that is a totally different discussion and these cameras will be the wrong ones to use for a comparison.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

4:2:2 10bit vs. 4:2:0 8bit ... that's why "I would think that".

Yes, I realize there are a variety of other factors ... than just Color Sampling alone ... that affects the outcome of an image BUT ...

...since I have not utilized or even seen this camera in person, I am only going by the camera's specs (4:2:2 / 10bit, Cinema 4K) which I thought would be able to pull a clean key without a problem ... hence my inquiry to Robert about his findings.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Yes I understand. We may see a better result from the 1" sensor of the FDR-AX100 if we get a more Pro version.

Ron Evans

Thumbnail Screen Playback Question
 

Maybe someone can help me with this, I don't usually use the thumbnail screen to review clips. The camera is happy to play back on the lcd clips shot at 60p but will not play back clips shot at 30p. The 30p clips have a little warning icon on them that looks a bit like a Do Not Enter symbol. A red circle with a line through it. Why might this be?

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Some cameras will not playback clips shot in a different frame rate to the currently set one. It may be that the Z100 does this. Try setting it to 30p mode.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Bingo. Thanks Michael! That was driving me crazy.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Well, this just shows how wrong I was about reading specs alone to choose a camera! On paper the Z100 should have been a monster. I mean why would they put such a high-performance codec with 4:2:2 10 bit to the super high speed media, and put SDI and TC connectors and a G-lens?? That all says "Pro Camera" to me. The small sensor was the one area I didn't really pay attention to! Lesson learned!

And to add a bit to my earlier statement, the DSLR's really only have one issue when pulling a key. The aliasing shows up. So you get jagged edges on anything with an smooth line or curve. Now, shrinking it from 1080p to 720p helps but it's still not as nice as the true video cameras. BTW, the C100/Ninja 2 using the 220mbps Pro Res HQ off the Ninja 2 is stunningly good.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I saw this camera yesterday along with NX3.

Z100 has really good LCD, with magnification I can focus in 4K (camera was output to 4K monitor for control). The lens of Z100 is visibly better (sharper) than lens of NX3 (I hope that I did the change of Z100 mode from 4K to HD .-) ), also the change from focus to defocus is smoother (focus ring works better). The lens has a little CA on wide angle, but nothing big. The gain is usable to +12dB, at +15db is noise in 4K more visible, this mean that in dark areas you can't use the whole 20x zoom, picture is too dark. Also HD mode is nice (4K is a little wider direct from the chip). You can shot in 4K and at the same time see the HDMI output in HD on monitor.

Z100 is a very good camera with the exception of a lower sensitivity, with better lens than NX3. I didn't look for some NR in menu, so this can help with noise if this exist.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Updated link!!!!! Sorry!!!!!!

Sony PXW-Z100

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

rumors ..*g*.. free of charge firmware upgrade rund up 30th October

The version 3 will include:
XAVC Long GOP* 4K(QFHD)/HD recording capability with max.150 Mbps on XQD media card
TC output from HDMI

*XAVC-L (long GOP) is a codec with MXF file wrapper, in QFHD is 4:2:0 with 8bit, in HD is 4:2:2 with 10bit.

The next firmware version should include AVCHD recording and will be available in January 2015.
The Direct Copy function sony plan to update in first half of 2015.

http://666kb.com/i/csnz7ikj1elr6godi.jpg

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Can you please put that image on Imgur? I don't trust a site with a URL like that.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Here's the image from the link.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I have a FDR-AX1 the consumer version of the PXW-Z100. The physical differences are mainly, in typical Sony fashion, SDi and timecode interfaces. The PXW-Z100 is 422 10bit XAVC and the FDR-AX1 420 8 bit XAVC-S. When they came out there were. and still are things that do not work and were promised in a summer 2014 firmware update. There are USB and SD card slots that do not work, data code button that does nothing etc. In this promised update there was also to be included AVCHD and for the PXW-Z100 Long GOP. In this release it looks like they will give the Z100 the long GOP wrapped in MXF that is already in the FDR-AX1 as mp4 !!! As a long time Sony owner I am suspicious that the firmware is the same for both these camcorders just a matter of what is enabled for marketing !!! Just like the differences between the NX5U and the HDR-AX2000. The HD codec is also in the X70, X160 and X180. No mention of any of the interfaces that do not work !! I think the team may have been re assigned to get the X160/180 and the X70 out the door.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

Still puzzled as to the 4:2:0 for Long-GOP in 4K. This essentially makes it XAVC-S. But I guess you get more audio flexibility in the real XAVC format rather than XAVC-S.

Are the XAVC Long-GOP modes on the F55 also 4:2:0? If not, that's a hardware limitation.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I think audio is the same for either format just whether it is mp4 or mxf wrapper.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

I believe XAVC-S MP4 is locked to 2 channel 16bit and XAVC MXF is up to 8 channels 24bit audio, unless I'm wrong.

Re: Sony launches PXW-Z100 4K Handheld XDCAM
 

In the case of the present firmware both the Z100 and the FDR-AX1 are stereo. However the manual for my AX1 has a figure which shows the audio as 4 channel XAVC-S !!!! Page 38 in my AX1 user manual also shows LPCM 4 ch 24bit XAVC-S. It isn't of course, now my AX1 is 2 channel 48k 16 bit. What the real limits are is unclear to me and which firmware. At first I too thought they had got the user manual for the Z100 but that at the time was only XAVC 10bit. We will have to see what transpires.Clearly, typical Sony the cameras are really the same and may be identical other than the extra interfaces of the Z100. Marketing decides what one gets for what price.

Ron Evans