How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography?

Brian Drysdale · November 6th, 2020, 02:02 AM

If you're going in for heavy duty colour correction you need to get a decent camera that either records a heavy duty codec or RAW. It's pointless you even doing the tests in a serious manner unless you have the right kit. If you don't, complaining about noise only really deserves a "what else do you expect" response.

The BlackMagic cameras are the probably cheapest.cameras for doing this.

If you're planning to do the colour correction on this feature film yourself, be serious about the whole thing and go on a course. At the moment, you're just playing around sticking things up on a forum.

Greg Smith · November 6th, 2020, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh well I figure why buy a new camera, when I am going to get a DP for projects anyway, who may have their own camera, or may want to use something different? Unless I should still by my own, even if a DP is going to be using it likely? As for copying commercial movies, I just go by movies I like the look or feel of. Should I try to copy the look of other movies?

No, you should not "copy" the look of other movies. Instead, you should be "inspired" by them. There is a subtle difference which I will leave to you as a thought experiment to figure out.

As to owning a better camera, I remember suggesting a particular Blackmagic model and a couple of lenses to you months ago. As with every other specific recommendation that's been made, you ignored it.

You are NOT going to learn how to do this well just by reading, watching and discussing the techniques. Those are necessary steps, but must be based on and followed up with real experience - starting with brief tests of some specific effects or settings, then some full scenes, then short film projects, and eventually your feature. Owning a decent camera won't hurt you whether or not you use it on your later, larger projects, but will facilitate experimenting with more options and techniques now, and will always be useful in those future situations where you don't have experienced crew people and higher end equipment to work with. That has to be all to the good.

Stanley Kubrick owned a couple of Arri IIc cameras and a whole bunch of lenses which he used mainly to test out his ideas, but which he also used to produce some footage that ended up in "2001" and "Barry Lyndon," perhaps among others. (Remember the bone tossed in the air at the end of the first act in "2001" - that was shot handheld by Kubrick himself in the parking lot of the studio.) I hardly think he had any trouble hiring the finest cinematographers and cameras for his films, but still found it valuable to have some decent gear of his own to learn and experiment with.

Brian Drysdale · November 6th, 2020, 03:23 AM

Over the years Kubrick owned other cameras, not just the Arri 35 IIC.

I don't know if the bone shot in the film was a blow up from 35mm to 65mm, although Kubrick did some hand held operating with a 65mm camera on "2001". Before Ryan starts asking questions 70mm films are shot on 65mm stock, but the prints are 70mm because of the sound tracks,

Christopher Young · November 6th, 2020, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

I really like the blue sunlight look, like you see in movies like this example:

Drug War (2012) - Something's Wrong Scene (1/10) | Movieclips - YouTube

I tried doing it by turning my color temperature down to 3200 kelvin more around, until the sun became blue enough, but when I do that, peoples faces come out magenta of course. But in that clip, they manage to keep the magenta skin toned quite down, yet keep the sunlight quite blue at the same time. Does anyone know how they did it by any chance?

Can't access that clip but if this is the movie, see below, that you are talking about it's just a derivation on the rather overworked "Orange/Teal" complimentary contrast colors grade. A lesson on how do achieve that in Resolve is below by Juan Melara.

Using the Magic Bullet "Looks" suite in Premiere and numerous other NLE's etc then here is a tutorial from Stu Maschwitz. He also explains how colors work with and against one another using Adobe Kuler Color Wheel. See the Adobe link down the bottom. Also if not working LOG you could try the Osiris M31 Rec 709 LUT and tweak around for your own look. Link below.

Chris Young

Working from LOG files any of these workflows below you should be able to generate the "Drug War 2012" look.

Resolve

Magic Bullet

Bright Sunlight and Osiris M31 LUT with links

https://color.adobe.com/create/color-wheel

https://www.colorgradingcentral.com/...rted-with-m31/

Brian Drysdale · November 6th, 2020, 04:03 AM

I didn't want to say it, but "Orange/Teal" did pass through my mind when I saw the trailer before replying earlier in the thread,

There's a whole thread on doing that for an interior (which I recall included that summer block buster), so it does seem to be going over old ground with Ryan.

Christopher Young · November 6th, 2020, 04:30 AM

Yes! Back around 2013 that Orange/Teal look got hammered to death. As you say old ground but for some jobs still quite applicable. The fact that it utilized complimentary colors that work on a subliminal level was why it was very successful. Manipulation of the mind! :)

Some years ago I chucked together a bunch of LOG and 709 LUTs as quite a few people were asking for a range of cheap LUTs and some of the most popular were those Orange/Teal derivations.

Chris Young

Ryan Elder · November 6th, 2020, 06:25 AM

Oh okay thanks. I can get the blackmagic, and I did not forget about the suggestion to get it. I was going to get it later on, but thought I would work with what I have for now. I've watched a couple of those tutorials before and can watch the rest. They talk about keying out the skin tones, it's just when I do it, I get noise problems.

But I thought it was a me problem and not a camera problem. I was going to get the camera though.

The movie Drug War doesn't have a typical teal and orange look though, because the skin tones are a lot more neutral than orange. Their is also no teal and it's blue instead. So I thought it was a blue and neutral look, rather than the usual teal and orange look you see so much.

I wouldn't say I am copying the look, but am inspired by it. I have a different look in mind, that is a combination of looks, but this is just one of them, where I have to figure out how to get the sky blue, and separate the skin tones, in order as a step to that look I have in mind. I wasn't planning on copying the Drug War look exactly.

In the tutorials the skin is way too orange for what I want, and I just want a neutral skin tone though.

Brian Drysdale · November 6th, 2020, 06:55 AM

With these programs you can make adjusts. Use a RAW or Tiff still image to experiment with, rather than the compressed 8bit 4;2.0 video that your current camera probably records.

Paul R Johnson · November 6th, 2020, 11:53 AM

I really don't get it Ryan. With all the really vital elements you're now faffing around with colour in your head. Recording decent audio, decent camera operation and basic editing are things that baffle you.

Teal/orange again? The people in that movie have different skin tone from some of the others you have considered in the past, and the trouble with using the word 'teal' is that it is very subjective. We have RGBYCM as terms that have very precise colour meaning. Orange and Teal are not objective, they're subjective. In every piece of software that can colour correct and change, you never see a fader marked 'teal' - so maybe you should stop thinking until you are sitting in front of a monitor, with people and backgrounds of all types - different skin colours and things like suntan to contend with. See what you can do. Do't forget that noise often comes from putting colour into something where there is nothing to boost, so trying to add blue to a coloured surface that is yellowish produces noise because you are having to add far too much.

These movies you used as the example here are the kind of movies I'd not get past the credits - I'm genuinely interested why you even have these movies on your watch list? They don't seem to offer anything very much?

Ryan Elder · November 6th, 2020, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

I really don't get it Ryan. With all the really vital elements you're now faffing around with colour in your head. Recording decent audio, decent camera operation and basic editing are things that baffle you.

Teal/orange again? The people in that movie have different skin tone from some of the others you have considered in the past, and the trouble with using the word 'teal' is that it is very subjective. We have RGBYCM as terms that have very precise colour meaning. Orange and Teal are not objective, they're subjective. In every piece of software that can colour correct and change, you never see a fader marked 'teal' - so maybe you should stop thinking until you are sitting in front of a monitor, with people and backgrounds of all types - different skin colours and things like suntan to contend with. See what you can do. Do't forget that noise often comes from putting colour into something where there is nothing to boost, so trying to add blue to a coloured surface that is yellowish produces noise because you are having to add far too much.

These movies you used as the example here are the kind of movies I'd not get past the credits - I'm genuinely interested why you even have these movies on your watch list? They don't seem to offer anything very much?

Oh okay, well how do I find out what the exact tone of blue I want would be called then specifically?

Also, are you saying that the movies I am inspired by do not have good cinematography? I mean I thought Drug War looked good, and you don't see anyone ripping apart the cinematography on it. Should I be inspired by different movies? Are there other movies with not as good cinematography I was inspired by before that you were thinking of as well?

Brian Drysdale · November 6th, 2020, 05:46 PM

The choice of look is up to you, although the fashion for that particular look may be passing. That's the nature of these things.

How blue or variation on blue you go for is something that your colourist will have control over, It's going to be a matter of making the final decision during the grading.

Ryan Elder · November 6th, 2020, 05:49 PM

Oh okay, but shouldn't I plan the look more in the shooting, rather than the grading? I didn't think the fashion of the look may be passing because you hardly ever see it. Sure you see a lot of teal and orange, but this is blue and neutral, which I thought looked and felt quite different. I know that is not the right color term, just not sure what else to call it. It's just this look feels a lot more cold and gritty compared to teal and orange, which is more popular these days, but feels a lot more warm in comparison I thought.

Brian Drysdale · November 6th, 2020, 06:05 PM

You can plan to do it, but this look is something that you apply in post. You're not applying it in the camera, so what's in the camera is probably going to be pretty neutral.

.

Ryan Elder · November 6th, 2020, 06:18 PM

Oh okay. Now I can shoot with a filter on the camera that makes the sunlight come through blue as well, if that is better, and may reduce noise in post, since filters do not create noise?

Brian Drysdale · November 7th, 2020, 01:43 AM

As has been said before, if you're going to do this type of post production work don't use a lower quality codec for acquisition. Your test is worthless if you're not going to shoot with your camera or a similar camera, so don't your waste time doing it as a serious test.

Again, use an appropriate still file. One of the high end cinematography sites uses TIFF files of their tests, so that members can use colour correction software on them in order to confirm the results from various the camera and film stock tests..

When I said applying it on the camera, it wasn't just using filters, it involved using the more complex menus found in the broadcast type video cameras that were used in the 2000s when they were using 8bit recording formats on HD like HDCAM.

November 6th, 2020, 02:02 AM	#16
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? If you're going in for heavy duty colour correction you need to get a decent camera that either records a heavy duty codec or RAW. It's pointless you even doing the tests in a serious manner unless you have the right kit. If you don't, complaining about noise only really deserves a "what else do you expect" response. The BlackMagic cameras are the probably cheapest.cameras for doing this. If you're planning to do the colour correction on this feature film yourself, be serious about the whole thing and go on a course. At the moment, you're just playing around sticking things up on a forum.

November 6th, 2020, 03:23 AM	#18
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Over the years Kubrick owned other cameras, not just the Arri 35 IIC. I don't know if the bone shot in the film was a blow up from 35mm to 65mm, although Kubrick did some hand held operating with a 65mm camera on "2001". Before Ryan starts asking questions 70mm films are shot on 65mm stock, but the prints are 70mm because of the sound tracks,

November 6th, 2020, 04:03 AM	#20
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? I didn't want to say it, but "Orange/Teal" did pass through my mind when I saw the trailer before replying earlier in the thread, There's a whole thread on doing that for an interior (which I recall included that summer block buster), so it does seem to be going over old ground with Ryan.

November 6th, 2020, 04:30 AM	#21
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,528	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Yes! Back around 2013 that Orange/Teal look got hammered to death. As you say old ground but for some jobs still quite applicable. The fact that it utilized complimentary colors that work on a subliminal level was why it was very successful. Manipulation of the mind! :) Some years ago I chucked together a bunch of LOG and 709 LUTs as quite a few people were asking for a range of cheap LUTs and some of the most popular were those Orange/Teal derivations. Chris Young ARRI, Canon, Sony, Panasonic and Blackmagic LOG & Rec 709 3D LUTs Pack (.CUBE format.) - YouTube

November 6th, 2020, 06:25 AM	#22
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Oh okay thanks. I can get the blackmagic, and I did not forget about the suggestion to get it. I was going to get it later on, but thought I would work with what I have for now. I've watched a couple of those tutorials before and can watch the rest. They talk about keying out the skin tones, it's just when I do it, I get noise problems. But I thought it was a me problem and not a camera problem. I was going to get the camera though. The movie Drug War doesn't have a typical teal and orange look though, because the skin tones are a lot more neutral than orange. Their is also no teal and it's blue instead. So I thought it was a blue and neutral look, rather than the usual teal and orange look you see so much. I wouldn't say I am copying the look, but am inspired by it. I have a different look in mind, that is a combination of looks, but this is just one of them, where I have to figure out how to get the sky blue, and separate the skin tones, in order as a step to that look I have in mind. I wasn't planning on copying the Drug War look exactly. In the tutorials the skin is way too orange for what I want, and I just want a neutral skin tone though.

November 6th, 2020, 06:55 AM	#23
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? With these programs you can make adjusts. Use a RAW or Tiff still image to experiment with, rather than the compressed 8bit 4;2.0 video that your current camera probably records.

November 6th, 2020, 11:53 AM	#24
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? I really don't get it Ryan. With all the really vital elements you're now faffing around with colour in your head. Recording decent audio, decent camera operation and basic editing are things that baffle you. Teal/orange again? The people in that movie have different skin tone from some of the others you have considered in the past, and the trouble with using the word 'teal' is that it is very subjective. We have RGBYCM as terms that have very precise colour meaning. Orange and Teal are not objective, they're subjective. In every piece of software that can colour correct and change, you never see a fader marked 'teal' - so maybe you should stop thinking until you are sitting in front of a monitor, with people and backgrounds of all types - different skin colours and things like suntan to contend with. See what you can do. Do't forget that noise often comes from putting colour into something where there is nothing to boost, so trying to add blue to a coloured surface that is yellowish produces noise because you are having to add far too much. These movies you used as the example here are the kind of movies I'd not get past the credits - I'm genuinely interested why you even have these movies on your watch list? They don't seem to offer anything very much?

November 6th, 2020, 05:46 PM	#26
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? The choice of look is up to you, although the fashion for that particular look may be passing. That's the nature of these things. How blue or variation on blue you go for is something that your colourist will have control over, It's going to be a matter of making the final decision during the grading.

November 6th, 2020, 05:49 PM	#27
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Oh okay, but shouldn't I plan the look more in the shooting, rather than the grading? I didn't think the fashion of the look may be passing because you hardly ever see it. Sure you see a lot of teal and orange, but this is blue and neutral, which I thought looked and felt quite different. I know that is not the right color term, just not sure what else to call it. It's just this look feels a lot more cold and gritty compared to teal and orange, which is more popular these days, but feels a lot more warm in comparison I thought.

November 6th, 2020, 06:05 PM	#28
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? You can plan to do it, but this look is something that you apply in post. You're not applying it in the camera, so what's in the camera is probably going to be pretty neutral. .

November 6th, 2020, 06:18 PM	#29
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Oh okay. Now I can shoot with a filter on the camera that makes the sunlight come through blue as well, if that is better, and may reduce noise in post, since filters do not create noise?

November 7th, 2020, 01:43 AM	#30
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? As has been said before, if you're going to do this type of post production work don't use a lower quality codec for acquisition. Your test is worthless if you're not going to shoot with your camera or a similar camera, so don't your waste time doing it as a serious test. Again, use an appropriate still file. One of the high end cinematography sites uses TIFF files of their tests, so that members can use colour correction software on them in order to confirm the results from various the camera and film stock tests.. When I said applying it on the camera, it wasn't just using filters, it involved using the more complex menus found in the broadcast type video cameras that were used in the 2000s when they were using 8bit recording formats on HD like HDCAM.