How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography?

Ryan Elder · November 9th, 2020, 01:42 AM

Oh okay, but I thought it matters how much time is spent in the sense that the character, the witness being interviewed, would not choose to wait there for three hours. She would want to leave soon, so the cops only have about 30 minutes to go things with the prosecutor before taking her home.

So if she were to stay for 3 hours, it be inconsistent in her character to do so, and she has no reason for wanting to stay. So wouldn't the audience think 'why is she waiting there this long when she has no reason for wanting to stay'?

Brian Drysdale · November 9th, 2020, 02:13 AM

Unless this person is a suspect they will probably send her home after she finished giving a statement. The discussion with the prosecutor can take place anytime if she's just a witness, if she's a possible suspect or a victim that may be another another matter. In the latter case it's more likely they'll drove them home.

If they've been inside the police station, in a room without any windows, they won;t know if it's dark. If their room has windows they can see it's now dark outside and they'll know that time has past.

If they walk out and it's dark, the witness can just comment on it now being dark. That's what people say if they leave and are unaware of how long these been inside a building.

Again watch those TV shows I mentioned to see how they do it. They have scenes like this all the time and also have levels of complexity way beyond anything you're thinking about.

You don't need a lot of business, the policeman can give a brief summery to the prosecutor over the phone and tell her he'll forward her the witness statement. She''ll pass an initial reaction during the conversation that the policeman can act on that.

Unless it's dramatically important that the witness spends time waiting, you're building a mountain out of a molehill. Plus, also boring the audience while you send statements around, have people read them and have yet more discussions. The police won't want a witness hanging around the police station, unless there's more to it.

The character doesn't need to stay after giving the statement unless they're under arrest.

Ryan Elder · November 9th, 2020, 02:21 AM

Oh okay, well it's just that after they pass her statement onto the prosecutor, what if they have some follow up questions after the prosecutor looks it over? Sure they could ask her later, it's just there is a court hearing the next morning, and her statement will greatly effect the hearing. So wouldn't they want her to wait, while the prosecutor looks it over, so they can ask her follow up questions there, so it can be completed for the hearing tomorrow, rather than wait till later to ask her? I mean what if the prosecutor thinks of additional questions after looking over the statement that they didn't think of? Wouldn't they want to hold onto her, until he is done looking it over therefore?

Also, I wanted the main character to go over the statement with the prosecutor himself, because it establishes his relationship with the prosecutor which is a set up for things to come later. If he is busy taking her home, and someone else talks over the statement with the prosecutor, then that relationship with the main character cannot be established.

So I will have to write another scene where it is established earlier then. But then that's another scene. So shouldn't I write it so that the main character goes over the statement with the prosecutor to establish the relationship and kill two birds with one stone so to speak, rather than write another scene for it?

But as far as TV shows go, I haven't seen a TV show, where they wanted to get a statement in before the next morning though, so wouldn't they want to keep a witness waiting therefore, to get it in the night before?

Brian Drysdale · November 9th, 2020, 02:37 AM

All this is pretty boring for a thriller, they'll be switching channels. .

Doesn't the policeman know what details are required for the court hearing? Wouldn't he have known before doing the interview? Can't he think for himself if he;s an experienced officer?

Ryan Elder · November 9th, 2020, 02:41 AM

No the policeman cannot know what she is going to say unless he interviews her first if that's what you mean? What do you mean by 'details'? Do you mean the details in her statement for the hearing?

As for it being boring, well there have been fictional stories that deal with crimes, and witness statements and court cases before, so is this not normal for that type of writing?

Brian Drysdale · November 9th, 2020, 03:15 AM

If there's going to be a court hearing they will have already been putting a case together. If there isn't at least part of case against someone they won't usually proceed to the court. The police will want to either confirm or elaborate on what they already know, so that can be presented in court.

The French TV serial "Spiral" does this type of stuff, although, the French legal system is different, it is built around the relationship between the female detective and the much older justice (the gray haired man below) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examining_magistrate who is in charge of the case.

It's the way that you're telling the story that will have the audience switching off.

Ryan Elder · November 9th, 2020, 10:41 AM

Oh okay. In my story there were already putting a case together and there was a new development with the witness that they wanted to bring her in for a statement before the hearing the next day.

But what is it about the way I am telling mine that is a turn off? Isn't it pretty straightforward, or is that bad?

Brian Drysdale · November 9th, 2020, 11:51 AM

You're labouring over statements and then discussing it, while keeping the witness waiting.

Having been involved as a witness in crimes, they got your statement and sent you on your way. A detective will know how to interrogate a witness, if they're the main character it weakens them as an expert in their job if they need to check up, they'll know what's needed for the case.

Any such discussions will take place before the interview. That will act as a set up for the audience.

Paul R Johnson · November 9th, 2020, 11:51 AM

Boring Ryan. Unrealistic and boring - too much emphasis on the trivia, not enough guts and it sounds totally un-gripping. Too much dialogue about unimportant things. Frankly, even your explanation of the plot here is the same. What is the hook? What exciting things are going to happen. Legal dramas are very specific, dramas that need legal stuff in them rarely spend any time on reality.

My Police Officer son cannot sit and watch TV when they are doing Police things because they NEVER follow the reality of his job, just the bits the public are aware of. Procedural issue are so dull. He's had the TV people working with him in the Station for a couple of months - they sit in the back of the police car and one shift he drew the short straw and had them with him and they complained that nothing ion the 8 hour shift would be of any use - all boring. They HATE it when somebody gets arrested, because on TV the Police Station work takes air time of two-three minutes but the reality is 3 hours at the very least. None of this stuff EVER gets on TV.

Ryan Elder · November 9th, 2020, 12:28 PM

Oh okay, I can have the main character cop take the witness home, but then someone else will have to go over the statement with the prosecutor because the prosecutor needs to make a decision that drives the plot after seeing the statment. But I wanted the main character to go over this decision with the prosecutor, so he knows more of what's going on and to establish the relationship.

Is there a way I can do this with the prosecutor and the main character, and also drive her home because when he drives her home, another plot point happens there as well. Or can he not do both, and I have to pick one?

But why is it unimportant? There are major plot points here that are set up for a pay off later, so why are they unimporatant? Don't I need them for the pay off to make sense later? Because if I cut them out, then I have a pay off with no prior set up.

Brian Drysdale · November 9th, 2020, 12:58 PM

The whole scenario sounds clumsy and I don't believe it.

Ryan Elder · November 9th, 2020, 01:13 PM

Oh okay, thanks. Is it just that they want to stay until the prosecutor seees the statement first, and decides he has no follow up questions, that is clumbsy or are there any other parts that are clumbsy? Any specifics?

Paul R Johnson · November 9th, 2020, 01:27 PM

It just doesn't happen like this in the real word Ryan - it just sounds dull and word heavy. Somebody told me once I should always think of how deaf people would cope if you had a signer in the corner. Could they keep up? Would people be able to follow if watching the signing, and not able to look at the action? Using dialogue in this way is a very heavy way to write.

Ryan Elder · November 9th, 2020, 01:54 PM

Okay thanks, but what are the specifics though? You said it just wouldn't happen this way, but what are the specifics of how it wouldn't happen this way? Is their more than keeping the witness around, or is that it? If there is more, what are the specifics of that?

Plus I don't see how using dialogue to tell the story is that bad, as there are many crime thrillers that do use dialogue especially in scenes of police talking to witnesses and discussing the next move on what to do in a case. It's normal and I've seen it before, so what am I doing different?

Also, I could write it so that the arrest the witness because she keeps dodging subpeonas if that's better, and then they can hold her longer for questioning, because has been arrested then?

Brian Drysdale · November 9th, 2020, 03:11 PM

There's dialogue which pure exposition, which is what a good writer tries to avoid or tries to bury. Good writers can use exposition in a way that Robert McKee calls like firing bullets. Poor dialogue, as commonly found in soap operas. is on the nose, which is to be avoided.

If you can write dialogue in a manner that avoids these pit falls it's fine. However, you create the impression that yours is expositional.

You should try to be more natural about how you do these scenes, At the moment they sound plot driven, rather than driven by the characters.

November 9th, 2020, 01:42 AM	#61
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Oh okay, but I thought it matters how much time is spent in the sense that the character, the witness being interviewed, would not choose to wait there for three hours. She would want to leave soon, so the cops only have about 30 minutes to go things with the prosecutor before taking her home. So if she were to stay for 3 hours, it be inconsistent in her character to do so, and she has no reason for wanting to stay. So wouldn't the audience think 'why is she waiting there this long when she has no reason for wanting to stay'?

November 9th, 2020, 02:13 AM	#62
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Unless this person is a suspect they will probably send her home after she finished giving a statement. The discussion with the prosecutor can take place anytime if she's just a witness, if she's a possible suspect or a victim that may be another another matter. In the latter case it's more likely they'll drove them home. If they've been inside the police station, in a room without any windows, they won;t know if it's dark. If their room has windows they can see it's now dark outside and they'll know that time has past. If they walk out and it's dark, the witness can just comment on it now being dark. That's what people say if they leave and are unaware of how long these been inside a building. Again watch those TV shows I mentioned to see how they do it. They have scenes like this all the time and also have levels of complexity way beyond anything you're thinking about. You don't need a lot of business, the policeman can give a brief summery to the prosecutor over the phone and tell her he'll forward her the witness statement. She''ll pass an initial reaction during the conversation that the policeman can act on that. Unless it's dramatically important that the witness spends time waiting, you're building a mountain out of a molehill. Plus, also boring the audience while you send statements around, have people read them and have yet more discussions. The police won't want a witness hanging around the police station, unless there's more to it. The character doesn't need to stay after giving the statement unless they're under arrest.

November 9th, 2020, 02:21 AM	#63
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Oh okay, well it's just that after they pass her statement onto the prosecutor, what if they have some follow up questions after the prosecutor looks it over? Sure they could ask her later, it's just there is a court hearing the next morning, and her statement will greatly effect the hearing. So wouldn't they want her to wait, while the prosecutor looks it over, so they can ask her follow up questions there, so it can be completed for the hearing tomorrow, rather than wait till later to ask her? I mean what if the prosecutor thinks of additional questions after looking over the statement that they didn't think of? Wouldn't they want to hold onto her, until he is done looking it over therefore? Also, I wanted the main character to go over the statement with the prosecutor himself, because it establishes his relationship with the prosecutor which is a set up for things to come later. If he is busy taking her home, and someone else talks over the statement with the prosecutor, then that relationship with the main character cannot be established. So I will have to write another scene where it is established earlier then. But then that's another scene. So shouldn't I write it so that the main character goes over the statement with the prosecutor to establish the relationship and kill two birds with one stone so to speak, rather than write another scene for it? But as far as TV shows go, I haven't seen a TV show, where they wanted to get a statement in before the next morning though, so wouldn't they want to keep a witness waiting therefore, to get it in the night before?

November 9th, 2020, 02:37 AM	#64
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? All this is pretty boring for a thriller, they'll be switching channels. . Doesn't the policeman know what details are required for the court hearing? Wouldn't he have known before doing the interview? Can't he think for himself if he;s an experienced officer?

November 9th, 2020, 02:41 AM	#65
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? No the policeman cannot know what she is going to say unless he interviews her first if that's what you mean? What do you mean by 'details'? Do you mean the details in her statement for the hearing? As for it being boring, well there have been fictional stories that deal with crimes, and witness statements and court cases before, so is this not normal for that type of writing?

November 9th, 2020, 03:15 AM	#66
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? If there's going to be a court hearing they will have already been putting a case together. If there isn't at least part of case against someone they won't usually proceed to the court. The police will want to either confirm or elaborate on what they already know, so that can be presented in court. The French TV serial "Spiral" does this type of stuff, although, the French legal system is different, it is built around the relationship between the female detective and the much older justice (the gray haired man below) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examining_magistrate who is in charge of the case. Spiral Season 2 (Trailer) - YouTube It's the way that you're telling the story that will have the audience switching off. Last edited by Brian Drysdale; November 9th, 2020 at 08:07 AM.

November 9th, 2020, 10:41 AM	#67
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Oh okay. In my story there were already putting a case together and there was a new development with the witness that they wanted to bring her in for a statement before the hearing the next day. But what is it about the way I am telling mine that is a turn off? Isn't it pretty straightforward, or is that bad?

November 9th, 2020, 11:51 AM	#68
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? You're labouring over statements and then discussing it, while keeping the witness waiting. Having been involved as a witness in crimes, they got your statement and sent you on your way. A detective will know how to interrogate a witness, if they're the main character it weakens them as an expert in their job if they need to check up, they'll know what's needed for the case. Any such discussions will take place before the interview. That will act as a set up for the audience.

November 9th, 2020, 11:51 AM	#69
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Boring Ryan. Unrealistic and boring - too much emphasis on the trivia, not enough guts and it sounds totally un-gripping. Too much dialogue about unimportant things. Frankly, even your explanation of the plot here is the same. What is the hook? What exciting things are going to happen. Legal dramas are very specific, dramas that need legal stuff in them rarely spend any time on reality. My Police Officer son cannot sit and watch TV when they are doing Police things because they NEVER follow the reality of his job, just the bits the public are aware of. Procedural issue are so dull. He's had the TV people working with him in the Station for a couple of months - they sit in the back of the police car and one shift he drew the short straw and had them with him and they complained that nothing ion the 8 hour shift would be of any use - all boring. They HATE it when somebody gets arrested, because on TV the Police Station work takes air time of two-three minutes but the reality is 3 hours at the very least. None of this stuff EVER gets on TV.

November 9th, 2020, 12:28 PM	#70
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Oh okay, I can have the main character cop take the witness home, but then someone else will have to go over the statement with the prosecutor because the prosecutor needs to make a decision that drives the plot after seeing the statment. But I wanted the main character to go over this decision with the prosecutor, so he knows more of what's going on and to establish the relationship. Is there a way I can do this with the prosecutor and the main character, and also drive her home because when he drives her home, another plot point happens there as well. Or can he not do both, and I have to pick one? But why is it unimportant? There are major plot points here that are set up for a pay off later, so why are they unimporatant? Don't I need them for the pay off to make sense later? Because if I cut them out, then I have a pay off with no prior set up.

November 9th, 2020, 12:58 PM	#71
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? The whole scenario sounds clumsy and I don't believe it.

November 9th, 2020, 01:13 PM	#72
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Oh okay, thanks. Is it just that they want to stay until the prosecutor seees the statement first, and decides he has no follow up questions, that is clumbsy or are there any other parts that are clumbsy? Any specifics?

November 9th, 2020, 01:27 PM	#73
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? It just doesn't happen like this in the real word Ryan - it just sounds dull and word heavy. Somebody told me once I should always think of how deaf people would cope if you had a signer in the corner. Could they keep up? Would people be able to follow if watching the signing, and not able to look at the action? Using dialogue in this way is a very heavy way to write.

November 9th, 2020, 01:54 PM	#74
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? Okay thanks, but what are the specifics though? You said it just wouldn't happen this way, but what are the specifics of how it wouldn't happen this way? Is their more than keeping the witness around, or is that it? If there is more, what are the specifics of that? Plus I don't see how using dialogue to tell the story is that bad, as there are many crime thrillers that do use dialogue especially in scenes of police talking to witnesses and discussing the next move on what to do in a case. It's normal and I've seen it before, so what am I doing different? Also, I could write it so that the arrest the witness because she keeps dodging subpeonas if that's better, and then they can hold her longer for questioning, because has been arrested then? Last edited by Ryan Elder; November 9th, 2020 at 03:06 PM.

November 9th, 2020, 03:11 PM	#75
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How do you get this type of blue sunlight cinematography? There's dialogue which pure exposition, which is what a good writer tries to avoid or tries to bury. Good writers can use exposition in a way that Robert McKee calls like firing bullets. Poor dialogue, as commonly found in soap operas. is on the nose, which is to be avoided. If you can write dialogue in a manner that avoids these pit falls it's fine. However, you create the impression that yours is expositional. You should try to be more natural about how you do these scenes, At the moment they sound plot driven, rather than driven by the characters.