View Full Version : Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q1Q2)


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Rob Lohman
June 26th, 2004, 04:21 AM
Do **NOT** pan over a JPEG! Use a lossless file format like PSD,
BMP or uncompressed TIFF for example. JPEG is a lossy compression
that adds another layer of degredation you don't want. This is
plain JPEG I'm talking about. JPEG2000 might not have this issue
if exported properly. But just use another lossless format to make
sure you don't loose any quality there.

Now if the source is coming from a digital camera (ie, a photo)
then keep it in jpeg form (unless you also have RAW) since that
is your original. No need to convert that since it can't get any
better due to another file format.

Just use a lossless format for generated media like text or 3D
animations and effects etc.

Graham Bernard
June 26th, 2004, 05:04 AM
I use the the Placement Tool in plain old "Sample Text" in the Sony Text Media Generator .. I use the X and Y coord in conjunction with the keyframer .. excellent! I've done HUGE credit rolls, all types of fonts . . and it works AND it is quality . .. Grazie

Edward Troxel
June 26th, 2004, 06:27 AM
Remember that Vegas 5 came with a light version of Boris. For even more power, you can upgrade to the full version of Grafitti or Red. You also have options such as Bluff Titler and Ulead Cool 3D. There are actually quite a few options available. However, as Grazie said, I usually just use the placement tab in the Generated Media.

Jean-Philippe Archibald
June 26th, 2004, 08:05 AM
Rob, Graham, Edward,

Thank you very much. I should be able to do something better now.

Jason Pechman
June 26th, 2004, 02:36 PM
I just ordered the new version of vegas, how is the lite version of borris?

Edward Troxel
June 26th, 2004, 02:47 PM
It's simply a lite version of the full Boris product. I believe it runs standalone (i.e. not directly from the timeline) unlike the full product.

Stephen Sobel
June 26th, 2004, 05:52 PM
I'm trying to compare Panda Titanium, AntiVir, and AVG. I am interested in hearing pros and cons of each of these three antivirus softwares. Also, any compatibility issues with Vegas DVDA?

P.S. I am not trying to start a debate on the merits of hardware versus software solutions, nor the merits of using or not using antivirus software. I have already crossed those bridges, so to speak.

Mark Williams
June 26th, 2004, 06:18 PM
Don't know about compatibility with Vegas but AVG has worked very well for me. The "free version" located and isolated a virus on my computer that the others could not. TechTV has a very high rating for AVG. Of course if you really want to be safe don't have your NLE computer hooked to the internet. HA HA how many of us have taken this advice.....

Regards,

Mark

Federico Dib
June 26th, 2004, 06:32 PM
Iīve been using AVG (free version) for more than a year, and it performs really well...

PROS:

It hasnīt given me any conflicts with vegas or any other software...

It is very fast when loading and startup.

It doesnīt consume much resources..

Itīs transparent for me... I donīt notice itīs there...

It upgrades with no problems or hassles..

It detects a lot of stuff other donīt..

IT IS FREE


CONS:

It also doesnīt detect a few thing that others do...

I think that the scan is a little slow.. but it could be my machine...


Still, besides a daily scan with AVG while Iīm at lunch... I also do periodical scans with Panda On-line and/or HouseCall...

Glenn Chan
June 26th, 2004, 06:36 PM
Some recommend NOD32 for 2 reasons:
1- It scans fast.
2- "For more than six years, NOD32 remains the only antivirus system in the world that has not missed any 'In the Wild' virus in the prestigious tests performed by the international magazine - Virus Bulletin."

Second opinion:
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,115939,pg,1,00.asp

PC magazine likes PCIllin since it gives a great bundle of a good firewall and antivirus software.

ANG Antivirus FREE is good too because it's free. :)

Aaron J.H. Walker
June 26th, 2004, 06:57 PM
Thanks Edward, as always, you have been most helpful.

David Jasany
June 27th, 2004, 10:49 AM
Jason,

As Edward said, I also believe the Boris light version that comes with V5 runs only as a standalone product.

Many people, including myself, haven't bothered with Boris Light because of the program's complexity. It's not a very intuitive program, to say the least.

Some people are starting to use Wild FX Pro at www.wildform.com and Swishmax at www.swishzone.com for more interesting and complex titles.

Dave

David Jasany
June 27th, 2004, 01:44 PM
All of the DVDs I've produced with Vegas4,5 and DVDA 1, 2 use interlace format. Recently I've been shooting with a Canon Elura in Progressive Scan mode. However, I've always rendered in interlace format. I know there's no advantage to shooting in progressive scan if I render in interlace format. Maybe there's even some degradation.

But now I would like to burn a test DVD using progressive mode and compare it to my interlace burned DVD. In V5, I've rendered a loop region using Main Concepts MPEG-2 encoder, and I've selected the custom template, and chose progressive only field order.

Render completed, opened the project in DVDA2, and burned DVD.

Is there a way to tell if my project on DVD is really in progressive scan mode? I didn't see any choices in DVDA2 file properties for progressive vs. interlace. Or, can I somehow look at the properties of the rendered MPEG-2 file and see that it's in progressive scan video format?

Thanks.

Dave

David Jasany
June 27th, 2004, 01:57 PM
As luck would have it, I found the answer to my question just after posting it Using the explorer view in Vegas, all I had to do is click on the rendered MPEG file and it shows me it's in progressive scan.

I'm still curious if in DVDA2 I can view the project's video properties and see that it's in progressive video format.

Joe Carney
June 27th, 2004, 05:37 PM
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com
is down. So if you didn't download 5b (like me) you will
have to wait. They didnt say how long, only that the site was being upgraded.

Edward Troxel
June 27th, 2004, 07:56 PM
The pre-messages announcing the down time said between 5:00pm and 11:00pm Central Time. So it should be up in a couple more hours.

Rob Lohman
June 28th, 2004, 02:55 AM
If you have a software DVD player installed you can usually
set how it de-interlaces the footage and if it should de-interlace
at all. If you setup it that it doesn't de-interlace you should
be able to watch the footage in there and see horizontal
crawling of lines with moving footage if it is interlaced instead
of progressive.

Adi Head
June 28th, 2004, 03:19 AM
i am completely new to making DVD's. i went through the DVD ARCHITECT 2.0 manual and a couple of questions came up.

1. from what i understand DVD ARCHITECT 2.0 will only make uncompressed DVD with the following file formats: MPEG-2, AC-3 and PCM. so when i render a project with VEGAS, i should render it to the mentioned file formats. is this correct?

2. the DVD ARCHITECT, under PAL MPEG video (pg. 23), says the following: "If you're using the MainConcept MPEG-2 encoder in the Vegas software, use the DVD Architect PAL video stream template to render your video stream (you'll need to render your audio steram separately according to the parameters listed in the AC-3 audio or PCM audio sections)."
does this mean that when i render the project in vegas, i have to render the project twice? once only the video tracks to an MPEG-2 file and then render only the audio tracks to an AC-3 or PCM file, making seperate video and audio files to work with in DVD ARCHITECT?

thanks

Rob Lohman
June 28th, 2004, 03:37 AM
1. No that is incorrect. DVD is *NOT* uncompressed. MPEG2 is a COMPRESSION (format). Therefor it is NOT uncompressed. Also DVDA can ALSO do the compression to MPEG2. So it also accepts at least AVI in. But yes, you can do this encoding in Vegas as well.

2. yes, that is the best method to do

Adi Head
June 28th, 2004, 04:00 AM
so if i have a project (length: 1 hour) which i edited on VEGAS and now i want to make it a DVD, using DVD ARCHITECT, should i render the video tracks as .avi or mpeg-2? and audio tracks as AC-3 or PCM?

i know that MPEG-2 is a compressed format, but an .avi file of 1 hour will be too large to fit on a DVD so it'll have to be compressed somehow. the DVD ARCHITECT manual states the following (chapter 2, pg. 21): "The following files will not require recompression if encoded with proper parameters: MPEG-2, PCM, and AC-3."
does this mean that it is a prefered method to render to MPEG-2, etc. so that the files don't have to be re-rendered? or are there better methods, as far as preserving quality is concerened?

my question basically is: what is the prefered method of rendering a project on VEGAS, to be made later into a DVD using DVD ARCHITECT, while preserving quality as much as possible of both video and audo?

Rob Lohman
June 28th, 2004, 04:22 AM
As I explained it does NOT matter. There is no preferred method
since both DVDA and Vegas use the EXACT SAME MPEG and AC3
encoder!

So it is up to you. Encode to MPEG2 / AC3 in Vegas or load the
AVI (then you don't have to export the audio seperately) file
into DVDA and let it do the MPEG2 / AC3 encoding.

The choice is yours so do what you like best. It will not matter
which one you choose in terms of quality. It's just what you like
best in your workflow.

One tiny difference might be disk space. If you output as AVI you
require much more space to save the file before DVDA encodes
it. If you directly encode to MPEG2 / AC3 from within Vegas you
will need less disk space.

That is the only difference.

Adi Head
June 28th, 2004, 04:29 AM
got it. thanks.

Adi Head
June 28th, 2004, 08:15 AM
this is another DVDA question. i'm asking it here, because after all, DVDA is VEGAS bundled software.

i managed to create a scene selection menu. as default, the picture shown within each scene button, is the first frame of the scene the button is representing.

this creates a problem in a situation where the scene begins with black, therefore the button representing that particular scene will show a black picture. how can i select a different frame from that scene to be shown in it's representing button?

thanks.

Edward Troxel
June 28th, 2004, 09:13 AM
Click on the button, On the right-hand side look under the "Graphics" header. Below that is a "Thumbnail" option. Below the "Thumbnail" is a "Start time" box - change this to be the frame you want shown.

Adi Head
June 28th, 2004, 09:39 AM
thanks!

Adi Head
June 28th, 2004, 09:52 AM
if i want to render ONLY the video tracks or a project, or alternately ONLY the audio tracks of a project. would the simplest way of going about doing this be activating the MUTE button on all of the tracks i wish NOT to render and then go ahead and rendering the whole project? or am i missing something?

Edward Troxel
June 28th, 2004, 10:06 AM
For video only, just deselect audio on the audio tab under "custom".

For audio only, just pick an audio format (such as WAV). OR you can deselect the video on the video tab under "custom" but it makes more sense to just pick an audio format.

Or, you can just mute the tracks you don't want.

Brad Higerd
June 28th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Link to scripts which includes a script to change aspect ratio for entire media pool:

http://s92274348.onlinehome.us/vegas.html

Imran Zaidi
June 28th, 2004, 05:26 PM
Woohoo - just got my brand spanking new Contour Shuttle Pro v2 to use in my favorite editing program! I wanted to find out, of those of you who are using this thing (v1 or v2), how do you have your keys programmed?

Looking for some ideas... I've never used a shuttle like this before.

http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro/

David Jasany
June 28th, 2004, 06:27 PM
Thanks Rob. My PC DVD player is Cyberlink PowerDVD and it doesn't have any config options for setting de-interlace.

As a side note, I played my Progressive Scan test DVD on 3 players all configured for interlace playback. Both my Pioneer and Sony DVD players played the DVD fine.

When I changed one Pioneer DVD player to progressive scan mode, and changed my Pioneer TV to progressive scan, I could not see any obvious difference between the interlace and progressive format playbacks.

Barry Rivadue
June 28th, 2004, 06:32 PM
I have a very annoying story to relate I will try and keep brief:

Long before I discovered Vegas I bought Ulead DVD Workshop. I then discovered Vegas, and then had a chance to upgrade to the Vegas 5/DVD Architecture combo at reduced price. I opt only for Vegas 5. Baaaaaad mistake. Why? I figured I already have Ulead and decide to get their upgrade (I know, I know, the Vegas DVD thing would have only added fifty bucks). So I spend a not insignificant amount on Ulead's DVD2 Workshop upgrade. To make a very long story short, the upgrade discs just don't work with my computer(s). I exchanged a disc and still nothing. Yadda yadda etc. I wish I could now just grab the Vegas Architecture program, but it's now priced way high and I blew the earlier opportunity. So, right now I'm just too damn mad to use the basic Ulead program, and with the Vegas thing unavailable, does anyone have a suggestion for a wonderful >third< choice for DVD creation? I'm willing to write off this awful experience if maybe there's something else out there I can use with Vegas. I STILL want Vegas Architecture, but that's the way I rolled the dice. Anyone, pardon the rant; any suggestions welcomed.

Jeff Toogood
June 28th, 2004, 07:24 PM
Here is a link to download a section of video to see what I am talking about.

The widescreen footage looks fine, but the 4:3 is all squashed in the center.

When I pre-render this section and watch it through my camcorder connected to a 27" TV, everything looks great. But as soon as I render to MPEG2, it gets messed up.

Video Link:

http://www.alcanada.com/other/problem.mpg

Vegas Veg File:

http://www.alcanada.com/other/problem.veg

Thanks

Edward Troxel
June 28th, 2004, 08:02 PM
I put several scripts along the top row like Excalibur, Tsunami, and Neon. Just find the functions you use most - that's what I would put on the buttons (i.e. jump to next/previous clip...)

Michael Wisniewski
June 28th, 2004, 08:05 PM
Call Sony and see if they'll let you pay the difference for the upgrade.

You should probably put a hold on all software purchases, you sound like a crazy software addict :-p

Paul Jason
June 28th, 2004, 08:08 PM
And if that doesn't work, I saw this on another forum. Someone said it was good.
http://www.mrbass.org/dvdburn/

I have never used the program but it's free:-)

Edward Troxel
June 28th, 2004, 08:13 PM
Unfortunately, the upgrade from Vegas 5 to Vegas 5 + DVD has now gone up significantly. You could try, as Michael suggested, calling Customer Support to see what they will do for you. Who knows, you *might* get lucky.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
June 28th, 2004, 08:40 PM
The new http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1578202442/qid=1088475506/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8644837-2007019?v=glance&s=books Sound Forge 7 book is shipping now, written by Jeffrey P. Fisher. Amazon has a deal going for $17.50 Good book, low price, great Sound Forge information. Has some information relating to the export/import from Vegas to Sound Forge as well, not to mention the authoring of ACID loops.
Jeffrey is a terrific author, wait'll you see the new Instant VASST book on Vegas that Jeffrey and I are doing together. In the meantime, enjoy Jeffrey's newest book on Sound Forge! This is one book that isn't a rewrite of the owners manual. It's all tip/technique oriented.

Michael Wisniewski
June 28th, 2004, 08:43 PM
Cool, I can't wait for the Instant Vegas book too.

Barry Rivadue
June 28th, 2004, 09:34 PM
Thanks so far for your suggestions.

What does anyone here think of DVDlab?

Aaron Koolen
June 28th, 2004, 10:51 PM
My settings are pretty much the default.

I do have the trim right point, left point and exit edit on the 3 buttons above the wheel. makes it easy to jump to event trim mode, jog with the wheel and exit. This is a great tool. While I can use keys for most stuff, just being able to easily move 1 frame to adjust some footage is great. I wish though that there was something in Vegas that would allow you to "enter" an adjacent trim mode (Not just hold down qualitier and if mouse is over a point, then you can adjacent trim). That way I could use the wheel for that too.

Aaron

Rob Lohman
June 29th, 2004, 02:09 AM
Keep in mind that all DVD players can playback progressive since
it doesn't know there is any difference. The timing has just changed
between the fields, that's all.

It sounds like all went the way you wanted it to go.

I just checked my WinDVD and I see I can change the way it
does de-interlace, but it looks like I can't turn it off indeed. Hmmm,
I could swear the software supported that in an earlier version.

Sorry!

Rob Lohman
June 29th, 2004, 02:22 AM
I would stick with the big names in DVD authoring Barry. And
first call Sony. Only start looking futher if they are not willing
to help you out.

Josh Bass
June 29th, 2004, 04:23 AM
I've got Vegas 4, and Vegas 4 has quite a few fonts to choose from. . .


Or does it?

Some of them work fine, and some, when I select them, the text changes in the "edit generated media" dialogue box, but NOT in the Vegas preview window, which I'm assuming means that if I used that font, I'd just get nothing, or, more precisely, the font I selected before that DID change in the preview window. What's up with this?

Adi Head
June 29th, 2004, 05:01 AM
i am trying to make a dvd using vegas 5 + architect.

the way i am doing it is by rendering the project in vegas 5 into 2 seperate files, a video file and an audio file:
1. mpeg-2 DVD Architect PAL video stream (containing only video)
2. AC-3 Stereo DVD (containing only audio)

then i open these files in architect and create the dvd.

i just have a question regarding the rendering of the audio to AC-3 Stereo. in the "DESCRIPTION" box, in the "RENDER AS" dialogue (below the template menu), i noticed that the audio is data rate is set to 192 kbps. by entering "CUSTOM..." i have the option to select a higher data rate in the "Audio Service" tab . my questions are:

1. is there a particular reason that the default is set to 192 Kbps?
2. if i change that variable in the "Custom..." menu to a higher data rate, will i be affecting anything besides the quality of the sound? am i risking anything? will the sound be suddenly out of sinc or something of that sort?

Peter Jefferson
June 29th, 2004, 05:46 AM
1. is there a particular reason that the default is set to 192 Kbps?

No, this is a standard set by Dolby Labs. Reason is strorage vs quality

Mainly, this is used for larger projects and the smaller audio bitrate requires minimal disc space.. this is ideal for 2hour + dvd5's

2. if i change that variable in the "Custom..." menu to a higher data rate, will i be affecting anything besides the quality of the sound? am i risking anything? will the sound be suddenly out of sinc or something of that sort?

It will affect the size of the file as well as quality. Think of it as an MP3 (coz thats basically what it is)

Brad Higerd
June 29th, 2004, 07:55 AM
David,

I just ran a similar test last night. We've been shooting in Canon's "Frame Mode" and I wanted assurance that MPEG progressive burned from DVDA2 would work in a standard Home DVD player. The burned DVD has 2 buttons on the menu (1 interlaced and 1 progressive of the same widescreen scene). Playback on a standard DVD player monitored on an NTSC TV was not significantly different for either clip. Motion interlace distortion seemed slightly more noticeable on the progressive clip, but this is probably due to the timing issues brought up by Rob.

Brad

Steve Crisdale
June 29th, 2004, 08:06 AM
<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Rivadue : Thanks so far for your suggestions.

What does anyone here think of DVDlab? -->>>

Pegasys (same people who do TMPGenc) DVDLab is an excellent DVD authoring app for someone without DVD Architect.... which means I still prefer DVDA as it's selectable data/compression rate, selectable audio format (PCM, AC3 and Dolby 5.1) options give the best looking results while maximizing disk usage. DVDA's interface is a lot easier: i.e. intuitive than DVDLabs' in my opinion, let alone the fact that Vegas will write MPEG2 DVDA format video to make things even easier!!!

David Jasany
June 29th, 2004, 08:26 AM
Brad,

Thanks for confirming my test results. Since my Elura can shoot in Progressive, I was considering always shooting and rendering in progressive. However, my target TVs are mostly interlace and one progressive capable set.

After not noticing much difference, I think I'm going back to shooting in interlace mode.

Another concern I have with shooting in progressive is the original tape footage. It seems like most consumer or pro-consumer miniDV cameras have dropped progressive scan mode. I don't know if my progressive scan tapes will play properly in a camera that doesn't support progressive scan.

I want ensure I can grab a few frames from my original source tapes regardless of the camera I'm using at the time. One of these days I need to run to a store and try one of my progressive scan tapes in a standard camera.

Brad Higerd
June 29th, 2004, 09:26 AM
Lots of our progressive (frame mode) footage shot on GL2s has been downloaded to a computer on a JVC MiniDV with no progressive capability. The footage comes up in the media pool as progressive, so I don't think that should be an issue for you.

As far as the look of progressive vs interlaced, I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. the marketplace doesn't seem to have decided the fate of progressive vs interlaced HD TVs at this point. And as far as prosumer DV or HDV camcorders go, I'm not sure that progressive has been abandoned. It looks like it's here to stay (an opinion).

Peter Jefferson
June 29th, 2004, 09:48 AM
I carry a Dolby TSA, so I can use their logo's and stuff.. but when I go to use that as an intro, DVD2 always wants to reprocess/re-render it..

Is there a way to stop this from happening in the disc optimization??

Any thoughts; ideas would be greatly appreciated..

I've used from project, other times I've used PAL (I'm in Pal land) but it always wants to change it.. and when i select to NOT re-render, (from yes to no in the drop down) it automatically switches back to yes..

not happy!!!!