picked up hc1 on saturday $1480 out the door at circuit city...lol this thing was $2000 back in jan...shoots nice stuff. I have been experiamenting with getting some good quality on the web with hd stuff and wondered if anyone has some setting recommendations for rendering using wmv for footage that was shot in 1080i. should be an intresting thread. i am using vegas but am open to any type of encoding program. trying to make a small excellent quality file. 5 minute video would like to stay around 80 megs give or take 10

Tom,

I too, have a HC1 and I like the camera. I am new to video so take this with a grain of salt. For me, the best file size vs. clarity vs. display size when I render w/Vegas is at the 3mbps w/compression setting for both WMV9 and Quicktime. For a 3+ minute clip, I am getting ~70mb file sizes, w/display settings at 640x480. Keep in mind that I am shooting in HD which I find "crisper" than DV. With a 320x280 (or smaller) display, I'd get much smaller file sizes by a magnitude of 10x (~10mb) and quicker "streaming" but I prefer not to. Interestingly enough, shooting in DV vs. HDV, my file sizes are not that much smaller, all things considered. Hope this helps.

yeah thanks paul i will try out these settings. anyone using sorenson squeze here

Thanks for the tip. I'm editing with a pentium dual core 2.8. Don;t mind the $200 for cineform. Again excuse my ignorance, but is this the process; connect HD 100 to computer by firewire at which time HD connect will recognize my camera, put camera in VTR mode and simply download?
Thanks for your help

The drives I have are 7200 RPM and I am running Vegas 5 SD. Will the slower hard drives I think 5400 rpm work as well...I am looking at laptops and a lot of them have the slower drives

Thanks

Vince

Generally speaking, the 5400 drives in today's laptops ARE fast enough to capture video and I have done so. I also capture to a firewire 7200 rpm drive on that same laptop.

Thats exactly right Joe. You have some options in HDLink(cineform capture utility) whether you want to keep the raw m2t file or convert to cineform avi or both. Little things like that. but from there you just close Cineform HDLink, fire up Vegas, and drop clips in the timeline or whatever. Piece of cake.

Vegas can capture and edit the m2t files or you can convert to Cineform in Vegas without buying Connect HD, but like I said before the performance of Connect HD is worth it. Plus you get the nifty capture utility HDLink.

AMD Athlon 64 Processor
3700+
2.21 GHZ, 2 GB RAM, 250Space

Win Xp

Is that a okay computer to edit on?

Thanks Ed.....

Edward,

The DV-PC Recorder Canon offers with its XL-2 has a "Performance Check" program that tasks the hard-drive and measures the sustained write performance.

The 7200 rpm drives in my desktop peg the graphs upper limit at greater than 30mb/sec. The 5400 rpm hard-drive on my laptop struggles to keep above the "minimum" line of about 4.5mb/sec, but it does stay above that if I've disconnected it from the network and ensured that no other programs are tasking the hard-drive. But the laptop does stay just above the line and so is satisfactory for capture. As a test, an external 7200 rpm USB drive on the laptop pegged the chart like the desktop's internal drives.

I converted an hdv clip to dv via Sony's Fx-1 camcorder to my laptop.

The same clip I've worked on with 8 minutes of video and some simple effects took less then 15 minutes, if I remember right.

I cut the edit to two minutes for a web version to be converted in Microsoft's WMV format. I added "Do not distribute!" on the entire two minute clip. It took a little over two hours! I even had the music deleted from the clip.

Now, does the render time sound about right for something like this? I just can't believe that a DV project should take this long, even if it is adding "Do not distribute!" on the entire clip. I could understand if I was working on it as an HDV file and saving it in HDV format.

Yup, that's about right. Adding a title to the product requires that all pixels be rebuilt/recompress entire frame. You're transcoding as well as modifying.
Bear in mind that HDV to HDV takes less time than HDV to wmv. The fastest of all, is uncompressed, because compression is what takes the longest time.

John,

That worked great! Thanks for the info and Glen, thanks for the info on color correcting. I'm getting into it now.

Jeff

Greetings everyone,

I've been browsing the threads here to get an idea what options are best for a project I'm going to be editing (well, co-editing). The producer wants to edit a 90 minute feature in Vegas 6 in his office. I have editing experience in Avid, Final Cut HD and Premiere Pro, but I've never touched Vegas. I don't anticipate too much of a learning curve on the software, but this will be the first HDV project I've done.

The producer currently has a P4 2.8 with 1 gig of ram and he told me this system was choking on the conversion of HDV (to Cineform files, I assume - he didn't specify). He is looking at getting an AMD dual core 3800 with 2 gigs of ram to speed things up on all the conversions.

We are going to start with about 20 hours raw 24p footage from a JVC HD-100. I was also the script supervisor on the set and I have time codes for most of the takes, but I would like to have scene detection to avoid logging everything individually before capture. Occasionally time code was reset within a tape because of power loss to the camera, so could be some issues if we need to recapture using an EDL later.

I am also going to suggest going with either Gearshift or Connect HD to help our conversions. I have thought about either a DV proxy edit or a Cineform HD edit. Disk space will obviously be an issue with 16-20 hours of Cineform files. It would be nice to be able to output a SD video with time code burned in to target footage that will not be used at all to free up disk space.

There will probably be a fair amount of color correction and some compositing (from green screen shots) in this project. Time (Final cut must be ready in June. Picture lock is probably by the end of May.) and cost are factors.

Here are some questions I would like opinions on:

If we had to rely on capturing an entire tape to m2t before splitting up individual sections, would there be issues with audio sync or time code that I should be aware of?

What kinds of limitations are there on performance in Vegas with large projects? I worked on a 90 minute project in Premiere Pro and we ended up splitting into three separate projects or else the computer would slow down and eventually crash.

Would there be any issues with copying the DV proxy files from Gearshift or Connect HD and using them elsewhere? (For instance, loading the DV files into my Final Cut system at home for test cutting.)

Lastly, any tips with dealing with 24p footage and time code would be appreciated. This whole project will be quite a new experience for me, and I want to know what to expect.

Thanks,
= Derek =

If we had to rely on capturing an entire tape to m2t before splitting up individual sections, would there be issues with audio sync or time code that I should be aware of?
No issues, or shouldn't be. we routinely capture 3-5 hours of tape, no problems.

What kinds of limitations are there on performance in Vegas with large projects? I worked on a 90 minute project in Premiere Pro and we ended up splitting into three separate projects or else the computer would slow down and eventually crash.

None, really. Not if you have a fast system, and RAM. most of our work is 30-90 mins in length, often with at least 4 hours of HDV on the timeline.

Would there be any issues with copying the DV proxy files from Gearshift or Connect HD and using them elsewhere? (For instance, loading the DV files into my Final Cut system at home for test cutting.)?

You'll be able to transfer the files to FCP, but FCP sometimes hiccups with the Vegas-originated VFW DV files. Depends on the machine.

Lastly, any tips with dealing with 24p footage and time code would be appreciated. This whole project will be quite a new experience for me, and I want to know what to expect.

Depends on the cam. If you're shooting JVC HD100 or Canon XL H1, nothing to worry about at all. T/C is T/C if all things are equal in the project. Vegas manages it just fine. Simply open a 24p project, start capturing/dropping in footage.
If you're shooting Sony HDV, consider testing 25p or 50i with the camcorder in advance. Converting this to 24p is very, very easy, and personall, I prefer the look.

Hi,

I have rendered PAL DV (as well as downconverted HDV) to MPEG2 for DVD Architect PAL Video Streams on a number of occasions using either a Constant Bit Rate of 9,800,000 BPS or setting the Maximum, Average, and Minimum Bit Rates to 9,800,000 BPS.

Although the files are extremely large I have not had any problem playing them in any of my set top DVD players (4 x different brands of consumer set top players) or computer DVD players.

My question really is - would this cause other problems that I am not aware of?

I mean, other than the file sizes (which are not a problem if you are only putting about 15 or 20 minutes of footage on a DVD like 3 x demo music videos for example), there does not seem to be a problem using these very high bit rates and large files.

I am assuming that by doing this I am getting the highest possible MPEG2 quality.

Am I missing something?

Any reason not to use these high bit rates?

Comments anyone?

Regards,

Dale.

Something I can’t understand? I edit my video from my DV camera with Vegas 6,
then with Debugframeserver encoding video to MPEG 2 to TMPGEnc 2.5 for best results.For example for 1 hour of video (720x576), 1 audio track 224 kbits/s, it takes about 8000 kbits/sec video bitrate for best quality. I decided to use native encoder In Vegas 6 but here are the problems. First at all, there is no calculating how will be the final project depending of chosen video bitrate.O.K., I use video bitrate calculator, and it says for instance , 1 hour and 30min of video (720x576}
1 audio track with 224 kbits/sec takes 6570 kbits/sec video bitrate for final project
of 4,3Gb. I use these parameters in Vegas 6 but final project is smaller then 4,3Gb,
about 3,90Gb.So what is the point?Which video bitrate calculator to use that coresponding with Vegas MPEG encoder for best results. I think that Vegas use Mainconcept encoder , and from my experience it gives little bit low quality comparing with TMPGEnc but it takes much less time for encoding. So for example what is the highest video bitrate in Vegas I can use for 1 hour 30min of video, or simple how to manage these parameters when rendering with Vegas, what video bitratecalculator, some plugin for this option or something???
Regards.

How to split rendering project into 3 separate MPEG video clips.
For example I edit wedding party that is 4 hour long and split to 3 separate project 1 hour and 20min long to fit in to 3 DVD discs for
optimal quality. Then I edit these 3 project one by one, and save to HD.
So main question is : How to render these three separate project to MPEG 2
out of timeline, some kind of batch rendering.Maybe there is some plugin for
batch rendering without using the timeline.
Regards.

The Event Pan & Crop and Event FX icons show up in each clip on the time line.

Can someone tell me how to them off?

I can't seem to finf the preference setting that turnd them on.

Thanks for you help.

Frank

They are on by default. To turn them off, go to View - Video Event Buttons (in older versions of Vegas, it's under the Preferences).

View/Video Event buttons, or SHIFT+CTRL+C will toggle them on/off

So... bottom line is that you have three projects and then would like, once ALL are finished, to batch render all three products. Probably the best batch rendering program out there today is the Veggie Toolkit http://www.peachrock.com/software/veggie-toolkit.html

Alternatives include opening Vegas 3 times and starting all three renders, using Network Rendering on a single machine to queue up the projects back to back, or searching for other batch rendering scripts looking for one that explicity handles VEG files as the source.

Are you taking into account the audio? Which preset in Vegas are you using? The DVDA presets do NOT include audio so that will be added to your final total. The audio must be rendered separately as AC3 or WAV.

You have video only at those rates? You need to take the audio into consideration as the video PLUS the audio should not exceed the max.

Try Connect HD and I think you'll buy it. I've used it a lot and it is much better than Vegas capture and the avi files it produces are very good. On the slower computer it captures m2t in one step, then converts it in the second. The converted files are easy to handle in Vegas. On a faster computer, Connect will capture and convert in one step but a duel 3800+ X2 is marginal. Cineform says it works but it doesn't on mine. Anyway it is still easier. You can capture a whole tape in one file, convert, and in the conversion process it will scene detect, splitting the clips.

Anyone who hasn't should probably try Connect HD trial version. Connect creates great avi files that edit easily in Vegas. It captures and converts m2t. In the process it scene detects. (It does it in one step on a fast computer, in two steps - capture, then detect - on a slow one.) It is very much faster to use.

Is there a setting that will reduce motion blur in Vegas 6?
My subjects look fine until they start moving. Then they look like The Flash trail while the background is perfectly sharp.

Does Connect HD allow for batch conversions? I'm capturing (or soon to be) with DV rack and will dumping the .m2t files directly to the HD. Can I import them into Connect and have them all convert at once?

Yes, it does support batch conversion

I have rendered PAL DV (as well as downconverted HDV) to MPEG2 for DVD Architect PAL Video Streams on a number of occasions using either a Constant Bit Rate of 9,800,000 BPS or setting the Maximum, Average, and Minimum Bit Rates to 9,800,000 BPS.

I echo Edward's question: Is that only the video, not including the audio? If it's only video, that is an awfully high bitrate. I've authored DVD's with video track bitrates as high as 9Mbps, which is still higher than it ought to be, but I would definitely not go over that. One video I did recently had a 9Mbps video stream, and a 384kbps Dolby Digital audio stream. One of my DVD players seemed to have some trouble keeping up, so I reduced the audio stream to 192kbps and it seemed to be okay. Ideally, the video plus audio should probably be around 8Mbps or less for best compatibility with DVD players. I'm a quality freak, though, and like to take my video streams up to 9Mbps. So far I've gotten away with it, with no reports of problems. But I've only done limited distribution of my DVDs so far. If you're going to be make a large number of copies it would be best to have a lower bitrate.

I can't tell the difference between 5 mbps video and 7 mbps video, so I do all my high quality stuff at 5 mbps. I normally do things like VHS/Hi8 transfers using 3 mbps and it works pretty well. I've never tried 9 though... for audio, I tend to stick with 160mbps or 192mbps but never lower than 160

Heath,

Be aware that HDV Powerpack on DVRack does not properly support time code in M2T captures. All M2T clips will start at TC 0:00.

I was first going in circles on this back in November, when SM finally confirmed what I was experiencing.

Their latest communication was in late February, indicating that this issue had been recognized and was finally going to receive some development attention - all I know is that a fix is not there yet, but I hope it will be soon.

Of course if you don't need time code reference for matching field logs or syncing double system sound or multiple cameras this wouldn't be an issue.

Alternative - if all completed projects are on one timeline, or, if you don't split the projects in the first place...

Define each 1hr20min segment as a region. Use the batch rendering script that comes with Vegas to set up all your renders.

If you don't like the default rendering templates that Vegas ships with, just save your own, they're accessable in the batch interface.

I'm puzzled by my various editions of Vegas (5.0, 6.0, Platinum Edition) and DVD Architecture (2.0, 3.0, Studio) having different in-program fonts available. I'm disappointed that some of my favorite ones somehow are excluded from certain editions-unless they're hiding somewhere. Anyone else have this problem? Can missing ones be downloaded from Sony?

Thanks!

P.S. Does Vegas on different computers make a difference?

Vegas simply uses whatever fonts are on your systems. If you want more fonts, add them to Windows (in the Control Panel in the Fonts section). You can download new fonts from a variety of sources on the internet and can also transfer them between machines (i.e. copying the font files from the Windows\Fonts folder to the other machine).

Good Morning,

In my tests I rendered with a 9,800,000 video bit rate and a 48000kHz 16 bit AC3 stereo audio stream and do not seem to have any playback problems (and none of my set top DVD players are anything out of the ordinary - I mean they are just your common garden variety).

I have not tried with proper Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround yet but it's coming.

I actually have a question about rendering with Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround but I will start a new thread for that.

I assume that these bit rates then only really have to do with possible playback issues and if space is not a problem and playback is not a problem then there is no reason for not using these bit rates?

Regards,

Dale.

Good Morning,

I need clarification on this issue:

If you have a look at Vegas' Dolby Digital AC-3 5.1 Surround Template you will see that under the Bitstream tab there is a 'Center mix level' and a 'Surround mix level' both of which default to -3.0dB.

Is this in any way related to the level of your individual tracks in your Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Project?

In other words:

Let us say that I always ensure that my individual audio tracks in my surround projects are normalized to -3.0dB.

Does the surround template then attenuate the level of the tracks BY A FURTHER 3dB or am I not grasping the concept correctly here.

Also - how do the different types of surround panning correlate to the template if at all.

What I am trying to get at is that there are three different 'settings' in a 5.1 surround project i.e. there is the normal 'track normalization', there are the different types of surround panner e.g. 'Add channels', 'Constant power', etc. etc. for the tracks in the project, and there are the mix levels in the template as stated above.

How do each of these settings relate to each other if at all?

Regards,

Dale.

"P.S. Does Vegas on different computers make a difference?"

Answer - yes. But is not just Vegas. It would be WORD, WORKS, Paint Shop Pro in fact ANY software that needs to access your fonts on THAT pc. And as Edward described the process very well, the answer to your "ps" question is yes - but that's your particular pc's range of fonts and NOTHING to do with Vegas!

Grazie

I don't know if this will help you but in order to ensure that all of my workstations have the identical fonts installed I copy the \Windows\Fonts folder to my network and then on each of the other workstations I use the font import procedure to install the fonts on each of the other workstations.

Also - I seem to remember that somewhere there is a switch to show only Truetype fonts (although actually I think that this was in an application and not a Windows thing).

I assume that all of the applications that you are asking about are all installed on the SAME workstation. If that is the case, to be honest, I also do not understand why you are not seeing the identical fonts in each of the applications (unless one of them has the above switch as an option but then you would only be hiding the system fonts anyway which are terrible and I am sure that that is not what you are looking for).

Regards,

Dale.

hey all. i am looking for the absolute besy place to get motion backgrounds in hd format...any suggestions where to buy

Hello,

I would like to create a 'textured bar' (I'm not sure what the correct name is) that appears throughout the length of my footage sort of like the bars that appear on news clips where they tell you the name of the person being interviewed for example.

I have already created a DV texture loop and with a combination of cropping and panning etc. I can get it to the lower portion of the screen but it goes all the way across the screen - I want it to be faded out about two thirds of the way across not just end in a straight vertical line.

I have managed to sort of fade it out by using a blur filter but that blurs the whole texture loop and my color and movement are also blurred. I suppose I am trying to ask - how do I blur or fade just the end of the bar on the right?

Also - is there a way of adding a clip, for example, to the video track bus, so that it repeats itself for the entire length of the clip (like you would add a timecode)?

And while I am on the subject:

I have never been able to extend the length of generated media by typing in the desired length in the appropriate box. I can stretch the event (to a point) but no matter what you enter in the length field it does not seem to make a difference. What am I doing wrong?

Regards,

Dale.

Thank you for the help.

Frank

First, www.dolby.com will answer your questions about all the settings in the encoder. Or, Jeffrey P Fisher's book on surround, call "Instant Surround"

Second, set your normalization to -31. Set the LMP and Film Mode to "None."
then you'll have nothing further to worry about.

12inchdesign.com
These guys had the first HDV backgrounds in the world, and they've got a good collection.

They are called "Lower Thirds". All you need to do to get it to fade out is to lower the opacity on the right. You can create a mask that will do that for you:

Track 1: Generated media - Linear Black to Transparent. Track Composite mode set to "Multiply (Mask)", and add a Sony Mask Generator effect to the track or generated media

Track 2: Your Lower third - make a CHILD of track 1

Track 3+: Your background video + whatever else you need.

Do a test for us:

Render a small segment at 9,800,000
Render again at 9,000,000
Render again at 8,000,000
Again at 7,000,000
and finally at 6,000,000

Burn them all to the same DVD and watch them for comparison. Tell us when you start to see a difference in quality.

With video only at 9,800,000 - you're asking for trouble. It may work in YOUR player but probably won't in a lot of players out there.

Thanks for the info so far.

I downloaded some TTF fonts. and tried to import them into Vegas but I read a message that said "cannot open; file is an unsupported format."

What then is a supported format?

You don't load it in VEGAS - you load it in WINDOWS!

Start - Control Panel - Fonts - Import Fonts - point to the TTF file(s).

Vegas will automatically see them once they're added to WINDOWS.

DOH!!!!!

Thanks for the valuable insight. :D

Hello Douglas & Ed,

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my question. I am using Vegas Movie Studio Platinum as a primer for the full release Vegas 6. Will most of what I learn be useful in the full release?

This is great resource!

Frank