60i is not the best mode if you intend a film transfer. As the 60Hz motion conversion to 24p is tricker than 50Hz to 24p (or 25Hz to 24p is better still.) Also a 60i DVD and 24p film have completely different motion characteristics, normally you would select one look for all your outputs, but I don't do if you project would benefit for the 60Hz motion (sports and reality TV looks do, drama doesn't normally.)

Most film transfer facilities prefer 60i or 50i because they've all invested considerable research and effort into making 60i/50i transfer well. DFG (Digital Film Group), one of the leaders (and who many major production companies use) have a great white paper on how they prefer media come in. They prefer 60i over 50i, because it's a more common need, but we've done two projects that have been acquired in 50i, and they looked stunning when transferred.

All that said, film transfers for most of us will be a thing of the past very, very soon. More than 50% of the films here at Sundance this year are digital projection, and at the producers summit day before yesterday, aside from the Cinemark dedication to be all-digital over the next 24 months, so are many major chains going to be. They're enthusiastic about it for numerous reasons, but bottom line is...this is where it's all heading. Listening to the discussions, it was almost comical and certainly serious deja vu, as I clearly recall the debates of CD vs vinyl back when the Sony 1630 became so common for master output. It's almost verbatim the same discourse. "44.1 vs 48k=24p vs 60i. Analog has sweet harmonic distortion and pushed dynamics=film has greater latitude and depth of color.

Ok, supposing I`m interested ALSO in getting a final product in 24p NTSC (besides the 24p filmout), and I opt for shooting 50i and use Vegas (5 in my case), what should be the workflow (with Vegas) to deinterlace the footage edit it and obtain the NTSC 24p printing it to tape?
Thank you
Ron

Do you guys convert both the video and the audio on vegas time line into cineformavi thats supplied with vegas6? I was thinking of just doing video since it will render less data.

Wow these are great, thank you sir.

Also it actually wasnt that hard to find the newsletters, I was just a bit not in my right mind last night ;) , so sorry about that.

Heya's

I'm a new HC1E owner from Perth, Australia. I have Vegas Studio+DVD platinum. Used to get between 15-25 fps for previews dependent on how many streams are going for SD DV. With HDV the max I'm getting is 5fps on just one stream. I figured my PC might only just make the mark before getting into HDV, and while I'm sure you can edit with 5 fps previews, it will be hard.

So I'm trying to figure out what to upgrade. I currently have:

AMD Athlon 64 2800+ (yes a 2800+ ath 64 did exist)
512mb RAM (Hynix)
128mb Geforce FX5900
1x 80gig, 1x 200gig HDDs (both non SATA)

I've read 3D video cards make no difference with vid editing, so I figure mine should be fine. Hard drives should be fine, though I guess SATA drives might help a little bit.

The cheap way out I thought would be buying another 1gig of RAM. Though I've heard conflicting reports on wether RAM actually makes much diff with native HDV editing. Would getting another gig of memory make the difference I need?

I've read HDV is mainly processor dependent (with all the compression going on), which would mean hefty upgrading if I was to do that (i guess a dual core ath 64, new mainboard...and therefore a new vid card seeing my current card is AGP no PCI-E, and new memory). Almost a whole new computer.

Does this sound like the only option to get usable performance? Am I being unreleastic about editing native HDV without using the best of everything computer wise? Is there any websites with lots of info on real minimum requirements of native HDV editing and what hardware it relies on most?

I really don't want to have to buy and use one of those Cineform plugins as I'd rather use that money towards hardware which would be useful for audio production as well and other applications (while the Cineform plugin just helps HDV editing).

Also...could doing a offline/online situation work. Capture the HDV footage as SD DV, edit it, then recapture the final product as HDV? Would this work in Vegas studio?

Thanks

Interleave the audio in CineForm, or you'll be recompressing MPEG audio, which isn't the best thing to be doing. Plus, Vegas is optimized for dealing with PCM audio. The space saving isn't worth the hassle.
Aside from that, (not directed to any one person here, but for benefit of future readers) if you're doing HD of any kind, get past this silliness of worrying about HDD space. Either stay in SD, or realize that you need approximately 40 GB per hour of storage for intermediary codecs, perhaps more if you're not using an efficient codec like CineForm. It's simply silly to believe that shortcuts can be taken without compromising either end product quality or workflow. Hard drives are cheap, and very necessary for HD of any flavor.

Long post, and it's late. Maybe I'll answer more deeply later...
1. Don't edit native HDV. Read the HDV book that came with your software.
2. RAM makes no difference, it's all processor and HDD speed.
3. No, you cannot offline/online with HDV in VMS Platinum. There is a tool for the professional version of Vegas which allows you to do this, but not for the Studio Platinum product.

Even if you WERE to edit native HDV on your current computer, you'd be in significant pain. Use the Cineform codec that came with VMS Platinum, and even that will be very slow. Your best bet is to upgrade proc and mobo

Thanks for the response Mr Eagle. I got no responses on another forum, so even a quick one is good!

I did read your book (great book by the way, learnt a lot). Seeing it seemed to be about 1 - 1.5 yrs old, I thought that some of the information regarding what was possible editing wise with HDV may have changed. I guess it's still not overly realistic to edit native HDV. Rendering the m2t audio to WAVE has upped my frame rate from 3-5fps upto a bit 6-7fps! Better than nothing.

Thanks for confirming that RAM makes no diff. Saves trying out that avenue.

So even upgrading upto a dual core ath 64...i'd still need Connect HD or Gearshift to edit comfortably?

At first I thought there was loss of quality thru using these codecs, but I keep hearing people mentioning native HDV suffers generation loss during the editing process, while Connect HD and Gearshift don't. Is this true? Guess I'll have to research these two codecs a bit.

Tiz a shame about no offline/online feature in VMS Plat, but I guess that's to be expected with a application costing 1/4 the price of the full version. You said "there is a tool for the pro version of vegas"...is this a seperate plugin or something you have to buy, or is it a tool within the pro version of Vegas?

Sorry if I'm repeating questions others have asked before. I do try and search for these answers through the forums.

You don't need to worry about loss in the conversion, no. GearShift is the tool I mentioned that will allow you to edit offline and then shift to online with the larger media.
Yes, the book is just about exactly 1 year old, we shipped it on Feb 4 of 2005. The second edition is much larger and more in-depth on all sides now that there is more information available. It will ship shortly.

So Gearshift is only useable with the pro version of vegas and not VMS plat?

Just been reading the manual of gearshift and was getting quite excited about it. In which case I guess that only leaves Connect HD? Or is that not compat with VMS plat either?

Gearshift does not work with Platinum, only the professional version of Vegas.
CineForm is a standalone tool that is indeed, compatible with Platinum.

Long post, and it's late. Maybe I'll answer more deeply later...

Even if you WERE to edit native HDV on your current computer, you'd be in significant pain. Use the Cineform codec that came with VMS Platinum, and even that will be very slow. Your best bet is to upgrade proc and mobo

DSE: Boy, I'm talking with you in two threads. Its great to have someone with your knowledge to learn this stuff, I only hope your patience holds out.

So I don't seem to have the Cineform Codec in my current version VMS Platinum. I previously had installed the HD Connect trial, and then uninstalled it when the trial expired. Is it possible I removed the codec at that time? I had the impression that HD Connect is what gave you access to the Cineform Codec in Vegas, and that otherwise that intermediate is not available in Vegas.

Chris Barcellos

Read all about it here...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58881

- ShannonRawls.com

from capturing to printing back to tape should the field order be kept upper fields for fx1/z1?

Fred, I STRONGLY recommend you use the templates to render to, instead of playing with the settings. You'll more likely than not mess up the render. If you're rendering for HDV, HDV is upper field first, but the template will set this up for you. There is a lot that can go wrong, hence the value of the templates which are tried and true, and assure no problems with printing to tape. Otherwise, you'll end up reencoding your video and it will suffer quality loss, not to mention the time loss.

Regarding a movie my brother and I are making using a Sony Z1 and editing in Vegas:

1. We have three minutes of Super-8 film (35-years old) that we want to transfer to video that will be included in an HDV movie. Besides that, we want the highest resolution video copy possible of the Super-8 footage for posterity.

2. Anyone know of any transfer shops in the San Francisco Bay area that transfers Super-8 film to Sony Z1 HDV 60i tape? The film is priceless and we don't want to risk losing it in the mail.

I've never used them, but this place looks pretty good.
They don't seem to list HDV explicitly, but maybe they let you mount your own HDV camera to their optical rig?

Might be worth asking.
Good luck.

http://www.super8mm.org/

Louis,

I live in the SF bay area, you might check with Monaco in the city. They do 35,and 16mm telecine... I'm not sure if they do S8, but you can ask.

Beyond that, there's Super 8 sound in Burbank, and "moviestuff' down in Houston. Good people, good processes.

You have to decied if you want rank cintel, wetgate, or 'projection' transfers.

(I just checked Monaco, they don't appear to transfer s8. So your best bet is Pro 8mm in Burbank. http://www.pro8mm.com/main.php )

Just my luck, Gearshift looked like the goer, seeing it's a 1/4 of the price of Connect. There's no plans to make Gearshift compatabile with VMS Plat? Seems like scripting isn't available in the menus, so I guess that's why.

I cleaned up my timeline and was able to export this edl. I sent it to my online guy and he could open it but the system doesn't recognize the timecode. I have attached the 1st page of my edl. He says the time code should be in the format of xx:xx:xx:xx. These #'s on my list are unrecognizable. Could it be these #'s are the location on my TIMELINE vs. the captured timecode?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Jeff

PS I see I can't post an attachment. Here's what my edl looks like:

003 KW V C 32,558.526 32,565.174 145.940 152.588
from clip KW Pedestal - Clip 001

One thing you can do is flatten your computer (do a format and reinstall windows fresh) it's a bit of a pain but if you've had your computer for a while (1-2years) the registry file is probably bloated with tons of junk and other stuff installed by progams that you don't use anymore. Doing a full reinstall can really add some lost zip to your computer and you would have the bonus of being able to try that demo again(I'm pretty sure). It's way too much work just to get 30 days of vegas, but the benefits are significant.. Mark

Bear with me... coming from Premiere Pro and trying to adapt.

I'm trying to use BorisFX in Vegas. Having to jump out of the timeline and use the Boris keyframer is driving me nuts.

I know I must "manually" change the duration of the vegas clip within the keyframer but I can't get the keyframer's preview to show more than the 1st frame after I've applied an effect.

How do I "keyframe" the effect when I don't know where I'm at?

Boris forums aren't much help. (Not much here either).

The Dynamic Ram setting is "0".

Thanks!

monaco does not do super 8 nor HDV

www.bonolabs.com does super 8 to 10 bit 1920x1080 24p ( black magic codec) delivered on hard drive - you choose either 16x9 pillar , full 16x9 or inverse 16x9 squeezed .. for extra $40 they'll render to HDV .. your 50ft ( 2.5 min - 3min ) would fall below their 15 min charge ( 165) ...
The Super 8 frame size does not contain more information that can not be stored into 1440 x 960 frame size so pillar ( they set the 4x3 image inside 16x9 = black on left/right side) will do the trick

if your super 8 has scatches and you do not want to see them on tape then you can transfer using wet gate at www.posthouse.com to digibeta format ( delivered on hard drive for extra $50) again your 50ft falls into their min charge area aorund $90 ...

there is no wet gate for HD transfers ...

make sure you have either AE or combustion as bono uses premiere/decklink to capture the HD files and it may not playback in Vegas ( sometimes they do sometimes they don't = it's a premiere-decklink problem) but i have found they do play back in combustion and AE = you convert to windows uncompressed avi or HDV or use sony YUV codec for vegas ...

I just switched computers, still running Vegas 5. When trying to preview to an external monitor like I've always done (through my camera), it shows "preview on external monitor" in the preview window, but I don't get pass through to my camera. Then when I stop the playback, the program freezes and I have to restart. I hooked up my other camera just for the heck of it--same story.

Any ideas? Sorry if I haven't provided enough info--I'm not sure what else to add.

Thanks to those of you who answered my previous posts. I cleaned up my timeline to 1 layer and edl worked great. I used a JH3 deck to capture my HDCam as dv. I did a window burn of the cameras timecode so I could have backup data if I needed it. Now it appears my problem is that the timecode on the edl does not match up with my window burn. There is no consistency between the two sets of numbers. They are close but not off the same amount from cut to cut. Out of 4 sets of numbers, the first two appear to be in and out poins in timecode and the second two appear to be in and out on my timeline. I'm really out of time and think the only way to fix this is to put markers on the timeline of the online edit system and lay each of the three tracks on where the window burn corresponds to my window burn on each of the first frames.
Any other suggestions?

Jeff

the TC for window burn - you need to add the TC filter to the clip from the media pool ... if you add it as event or at output it will not be the TC on the clip ...

why are you using EDL and not AAF ?

Hi,
My friend wondered if the SoundBlaster Audigy2 on this Alienware was causing the problem so I swapped it out for the card I had in my old computer. (His thought was that the integrated firewire port on the Audigy2 might be blocking the signal to the firewire card I installed....or something like that.)

I've got sound, but still the same deal with no pass through and then Vegas freezing up on me. Even though my PC recognizes the camera, could a faulty firewire cable be a problem? Or is it this darn computer?

I'm running Vegas 5 and I can't bring the Pan/Crop box up. It doesn't matter if I try to use the event, track or the drop down pan/crop function.

When I try to activate any one of these it seems like the pan/crop box opens and immediately goes behind Vegas (I see a flash and the pan/crop header going towards the bottom of the screen and then it disappears).

Has anyone else had this problem?

Should I just reinstall Vegas?

Hi, there, I am upgrading my video card to support broadcast monitoring. I want to connect my HDTV directly to my PC/component out on my video card.

I am still a novice and don't have much experience. I have a sony hdv hc1 camera and the only HD monitor I have is the HDTV.

On another thread someone mentioned Matrox Parhelia APVe Video Card as a good option for dual monitoring.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58399

this sounds like a solution. On the other hand, the reviews/specs mention some features that are specific to other NLE. From the specs:

WYSIWYG PureVideo plug-in for Adobe Premiere Pro , Adobe After Effects , Photoshop , Autodesk Combustion and 3dsmax, along with NewTek Lightwave 3D , you can see your final output on an HDTV monitor without the necessity for looping your signal back through the 1394 port.

Also, I noticed that another review sheet http://dv411.com/matroxgraphics.html#nles
shows that "video output preview with Matrox graphics cards." is not supported for vegas.

Does anyone have experience using this card with Vegas 6? do you recommend it and/or recommend another? I'm making the purchasing decision today (hopefully!).

Thanks.

Sounds like you've moved it OFF the screen. Try changing the screen resolution higher, locate it the window, move it back to the main area, and then change the resolution back.

Alternately, hold down CTRL-SHIFT when you start Vegas. That will reset EVERYTHING back to the factory defaults.

It could definitely be a faulty firewire cable. Changing the cable would be the next thing I'd try.

Edward

I did what you suggested but I still can't bring up the pan/crop box.

Any other suggestions?

I don't understand. First of all, the online guy asked for an edl. This is my first time in dealing with an outside source so I never had to do this before. I don't know the difference in edl vs. aaf. I also don't understand the timecode filter you mentioned. Can you tell me what you mean in detail? Sorry for the seemingly simple request but I guess we all have to start somewhere. I stayed up late last night writing down all of my cut locations and am meeting the online guy today at lunch to start the edit.

Jeff

Jeff,
You can export the EDL from Tools/Scripting/Export EDL. Is this what you're doing?
I do have a workflow for the JH3/export EDL for Xpri if you think it will help you any.

Douglas, I really appreciate your help. The edl seems to work fine but the timecode on the tape doesn't match the timecode on the edl. How I know that is that when I set up my captures with the JH3 deck, I set it to window burn the t/code from the tape onto the captured image. While I am watching my footage and making my cut, I can see the camera's t/c on the clip near the bottom of the image. When I did the export to edl, the list that printed lists the in and out points for both the the timeline AND the timecode. When I match up the t/c that printed with the edl, it doesn't match the burn that is on the image. The numbers are off randomely seconds to minutes.

All of this is secondary to the online guy not being able to open my edl. He says 3 or 4 minutes comes in and then his system crashes or freezes up. He is using a program called Speed Razor. Sounds like it might be compatability issues with that.

Thanks for the help.

Jeff

You tried resetting Vegas? If you hold down CTRL+SHIFT when you start Vegas, that should reset everything back INCLUDING the screen positions for the windows.

Hello everyone,

I am in the latter part of week #2 spending approxiamtely 16 to 18 hours a day trying to get my fishing show created in HD. For those of you who don't remember me, my name is Captain Ben Chancey and I host a fishing show out of Florida called "Chew On This." I have been filming and producing shows in DV for a couple of years now. I have three complete shows filmed in HD. Up until a few weeks ago there never was any reason to do anything HD wise because there wasn't any channels in my field that aired HD programming. Fortunately now there is. Unfortunately though, everything I have ever created has to be created from scratch accept for the three shows I did in HD. Over the past week with the help of some great patrons (Ed Troxel for leading me to BT, and Heroglyph) of this forum and others, I was able to get past several sticking points. Last night I actually rendered and printed the meat of my first HD show ever. There has not been any half stepping. I have had to do things I never even new existed as far as editing and capturing. The footage is spectacular and true to life. The biggest problem I have with HD is "Boy does it make me look UGLY." I mean to tell you if there is a flaw or a hair out of place, it will be picked up by the camera. It also really will make you look quite a bit heavier. I am on a diet right now because I've got to do better.

Now to the point. I need to put the most professional touch I possibly can on the show. In my previous shows graphics, titling, and text have all been mediocre at best. One thing I really, really need is the ability to create the cool captions or whatever you call them that goes under a person to name them. I have had fishing shows on everyday for nearly 2 weeks now attempting to figure out how to create just that simple titling. Some of the ones I have seen make sounds and scroll on the screen quick. They look great. I know I can make them but I just have not been able to find the groove yet. I have Bluff Titler but it seems to be jaggy and when I chroma key it, there is a wierd tint that darkens the picture. I am not very happy with chroma keying yet. I have downloaded Heroglyph but so far I have yet to find anything in there that has that polished TV look. As of right now I kind of feel myself stressing. I really needed to have the show done and overnighted by tomorrow but I am not comfortable with what I have created so far with the glitter and glaze portion of the show. I am confident and very happy with the meat of the show. I just want to be able to send the network the highest quality complete package that I can.

Sorry for the long post. I like to read DV Info and hear what others are doing out there with their video knowledge and abilities. I hope you all don't mind reading what I am doing. Any advice or help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Capt Ben Chancey

Hey Captain Ben!
You might find this tool to be useful:
http://www.vasst.com/product.aspx?id=91b2b3d4-1e38-43a3-8941-13ca5d685527

There are the freebies for it, plus there are purchaseable packages for it.
what you're looking for is "lower thirds" which are sometimes called "name boards."

They're easy to make in Vegas, but there are myriad packages on the web, too.
If you really wanted fancy, one of our designers could make a "fishing" themed lower third package set for you.

Douglas you are great. For whatever reason I was not able to figure out what they were called. I am typically fairly creative but I just didn't know where to start. Your help and advice is greatly appreciated. Now I can get to work for another 24 to 36 hours and maybe get it done.

Regards,
Capt Ben

How do make a background transparent in Vegas.

I have captured a clip, on a blue background, and want to make the blue background go away, and then lay the remainder on top of another clip.

I can't figure out how to make Vegas 6.0 do that.. Any help

Keith Kolbo's article "Chroma Keying DV in Sony's Vegas " at http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=31596 does a good job of walking you through the entire process.

you can also find Keith's article, along with several others on the subject of keying/masking/compositing at http://www.vasst.com/search.aspx?text=Chromakey

Like most people, I use a camcorder as a digital/analog converter between my computer and video monitor. Is there a cheap solution that would let me replace my camcorder and still be compatible with Vegas.

I know Pinnacle has some external video cards with s-video output (which is what I connect my camcorder to my monitor with). Is anyone out there using this or a similar video card successfully with Vegas?

Even better would be a PCI card with an S-Video output. I just need one that's known to work (selectable in video preferences) with Vegas.

Hello. I am relatively new to digital editing and as such have so much to learn.
I have an old 1 inch tape (35mm footage/4 minutes in length) that I want to have converted to a file so that I can re-edit it in Vegas 6.0c for output to DVD in 24p format. I found a nearby production house here in Phoenix that still has a one-inch machine and they can convert it to just about any file type. My question is what would be the best file format to have it converted to for use in Vegas 6.0c that would result in the highest retained image?
They mentioned using MPEG4 of which I only know that there are two types; (MPEG-4 part 2 …a.k.a. MPEG-4 simple profile. And MPEG-4 part 10…a.k.a. H.264 which is for HD although my 1-inch is not HD of course).
..Or, would an MPEG2 or AVI file type suffice? Note that this is for a reel which I am putting together and timeline footage will be mixed with HD24P footage coming off of a JVC HD100U in case that has any bearing on it.
Thanks in advance!

Hi all-
Messed around with DVD3 for a day.....and now I am proud to say that I have my project completed with menus/menu selection, great background, the works. Even has music loop on menu. It was fairly easy to learn. DVD3 is great just like vegas. (Now that I have my computer stable to edit, lol)

One question I do have is in DVD3. Is there like a safe zone for titling that I can turn on? or you kinda just hmmm. looks good. hahaha.

Thank you all especially Edward for all the help you have extended to us newbies.

What resolution should the compostition be in After Effects when the clips are later brought into Vegas for final output?

I was using 720 x 480 but the video was stretched. I find 654 X 480 gives me better results.

Is this the proper way for best results?

The odd thing is the AE template is 654 x 480 0.9 pixel size but when I bring the clip into Vegas the pixel is 1. If I change it to 0.9 it looks stretched again so I leave it 1 even though it was rendered in AE at 0.9 654 x 480. There must be something wrong but it works.

Is there like a safe zone for titling that I can turn on?

Sure is. View - Workspace Overlays - Show Title Safe Area & Show Action Safe Area.

Thanks for the info Mike.

Get a convertor similar to a Canopus ADVC-100. There are several different models and several different companies make them. This will replace your camera and work well with Vegas.

I recommend capturing into standard DV-AVI. This will allow editing without the additional quality loss that rendering from MPEG to MPEG will give.