another option, instead of the particlar track, is that if u want a global timecode for teh full project (if ur working with multiple video tracks) is to add the filter to the master output
when ur done, all u gotta do is disable the filter

Greetings,

I'm heading into a shoot soon that requires the final output product to be 4:3 standard def.

I am going to shoot 1080i HDV for future needs. However, I am still in the process of determining the most effective method of conversion from widescreen high def to 4:3 SD.

If I understand it correctly, it should go something like this:

1. Shoot in HD observing the framing of the subject based on the 4:3 markers on the camera
2. Import the native .m2t stream into Vegas 6.0 in a project with its propoerties set to the 1080i 60i template as this is what the source will be.
3. Apply the pan/crop tool to the clip to set up the desired framing in 4:3 on each event.
4. Render to a new SD 4:3 .avi file
5. Edit the 4:3 SD footage as required

Any comments on the this workflow versus any other possibiliies?

As always, I appreciated the feedback on this forum!


Lance Spratt

Why don't you just downconvert from the camera while you are capturing the material?
You can elect for it to be converted to 4:3 on the fly. Saves all that time and hassle doing it in Vegas, for no real benefit...

Robin

I agree with Robin:

Shoot in HD observing the framing of the subject based on the 4:3 markers on the camera
Import the DV down convert from the camera using the EDGE CROP method.
Edit the 4:3 SD footage as required

To turn on the down convert option, when the camera is in VCR mode use the two menu options:

MENU / TRANSFER / I.LINK CONV / HDV->DV CONV / ON
MENU / TRANSFER / DOWN CONVERT / EDGE CROP

This will save you a LOT of time. I have these assigned to my P.MENU for easy access.

~jr

Try our free Vegas script plug-in called DVDPrep. It selects the proper rendering templates for you. You can find it on the VASST Freeware (http://www.vasst.com/search.aspx?entity=16&category=Freeware) page. DVDPrep takes all the guesswork out of rendering.

~jr

Saves all that time and hassle doing it in Vegas, for no real benefit...
That it saves time and hassle is undoubtably true, but as regards benefits I can think of at least two - at least with a modification to what Lance suggests. If he was to perform the edit with the HD version (downconverting the finished product) then firstly this would leave an HD master, and secondly is that this approach will allow him to correct framing errors to some extent upon conversion to 4:3 SD. The HD master should allow some latitude for zooming in without noticeable quality loss on the SD version. This may be useful not necessarily due to "mistakes" but rather that HD tends to favour a wider shot than SD.

If the delivery medium is to be DVD, then why not maintain at least SD widescreen throughout the edit, if not the HD? DVD players can be set to give a choice of centre cut or letterbox outputs when used with a 4:3 TV, after all.

Robin, John, and David

Thanks for your replys.

This is green screen footage that is being keyed in post so my thoughts were, as David mentioned, that the workflow I suggested gives me the opportunity to re-farme the subject in post before pulling the key. Once the key is complete, then I will re-render the file to an SD 4:3 file.

I will do a couple of test shots today whether there is any value in keying the HD footage before conversion to 4:3 SD. If not, I may very well use the built-in camera conversion to do the conversion on the fly, saving me loads of time.

This is a news piece going to a couple of broadcasters in Canada and the US, and the lowest common denominator for all of them is 4:3 aspect for news related material. IF this was a documentary or other type of piece, most definitely, I would stay with 16:9. And yes, editing in HD makes alot of sense if an HD master is required. All of our pre-built graphics, supers, etc. are all configured for 4:3 SD at this time. And this news piece has a very short shelf life with little to no archival need. Sounds like I better get to work and generate some new graphics in HD!

Thanks agian for your support gents!


Lance

Vegas 6c= I have converted m2t to connectHd avi file utilizing cineform trial version. I have completed the edit and now converting it back to the original m2t file to go to SD DVD. I am not able to replace 1 out of 3 scene. Is it because I used the trail version which has now expired?? If not then will recaputring that bad file work?

Thanks

Fred, I'm not sure what the problem is, but, if you are using the cineform intermediary codec, then you don't have to switch back to mt2 for render to SD DVD.
Just render to normal NTSC DV for DVD template in Vegas.

This should work fine and look great.

Fred, I'm not sure what the problem is, but, if you are using the cineform intermediary codec, then you don't have to switch back to mt2 for render to SD DVD.
Just render to normal NTSC DV for DVD template in Vegas.

This should work fine and look great.


Thanks but I also would like to print to HDV tape.

Hello all. I just purchased vegas and a sony hc1. When editing how do put words over the video? When i do it, the screen is black and the words show up but the video is blacked out. And is there a way to put the picture inside the words...? For example a pan across the city skyline within the name of the city. LIke a black screen with the word atlanta scrolling across with the skyline inside the letters? And is there anyway to make the transitions longer without overlaying the video of the two scenes? Sorry for the nub questions but this software is nothing like pinacle... I got a little in over my head but I am trying to learn. Thanks for any help.

Hey Kyle,

I switched from Pinnacle Studio to Vegas Studio Platinum a few weeks ago, and at first was overwhelmed. It is completely different in many ways, and I had never worked in "timeline" mode with Pinnacle much except in placing titles and soundtracks. Pinnacle storyboard mode was great for adding transitions and such, and the Vegas trimmer window at first was confusing.

I also found that you have to "lock" events (clips) on the timeline to keep them from moving, even when placing events on other tracks.

Stick with it and you will soon uninstall Pinnacle if you haven't already. Vegas works very well and in my opinion blows Pinnacle away. Read the full size manual (PDF on the disk) through, and play with the program. I found just taking some very short clips (just a few seconds) and going through the editing and rendering process helped immensly, instead of trying to process an actual longer project.

To do a title the way you described as I have learned how to:

1. Place a text event on the text track at the point in the timeline you want it. It will be "Sample Text".
2. Modify the text type, size, etc... by right clicking over that event and select "edit generated media".
3. Select "Transparent Text" in the "Presets" pulldown box, and change what you want, including the background color within the 4 tabs below the "Presets" box. You can modify existing presets or create your own and save them.

The video clip on the adjacent track will show inside the text. I'm not sure about scrolling or rolling text, I'll check the manual.

I know you can do this different ways with video overlays and such, but I think this covers your question.

As to your transition question, I can't help much there. If you don't have enough video to insert the transition without losing a shot, I guess you could split the clip at the last half second or so, and create a slow motion clip of 2 seconds for the video portion of the transition. Audio might be a problem though. This could be done at the start of your next scene if the same problem exists.

As you shoot and edit more, you'll learn more video available is better than less, and hold starts and stops longer for "transition room".

Stick with Vegas, read the manual, and invest the time needed. I think you'll be glad you switched over.

You might also note which version of Vegas you are using when asking questions.

Jamie

Using Vegas 6.0d and DVD Architect 3.0c, Panasonic GS-17 MiniDV cam

I'm capturing miniDV footage into Vegas as PAL DV (720x576) and then creating a DVD. Whichever way I have the project settings, PAL DV or PAL DV Widescreen, some of the video frame always ends up outside the safe areas in DVD Architect.

Obviously, I don't want to lose the edges of my footage to some technical inadequacy or trick I don't know about, so is there any way to ensure ALL the video fits inside the safe area?

Please see these two screenshots for reference:

http://www.zen8003.zen.co.uk/images/prj-paldv.jpg - Project settings were PAL DV
http://www.zen8003.zen.co.uk/images/prj-paldv-ws.jpg - Project settings were PAL DV widescreen

I just want it to look OK on a widescreen TV and a normal TV. Letterboxing is fine, I'm not fussy - but I DO want to make sure the entire frame is displayed and that the aspect ratio is correct.

dude thast what safe areas are al about..
in teh camera u cannot see the frame outside these areas. .if u can, id recommend connecting a camera to the TV and the PC, then adjsuting yoru safe zone to a level in which u can see on your tv.. this will be the closes your gonna get to having ur tv and pc share the same "viewable frame"

another option is to run square pixel which will shrink your frame, but most likely allow u to fit it all into the frame

Putting it another way: That VIDEO which is OUTSIDE the OUTTER safe area will NOT be seen in a final render. The INNER safe area is the safe area for TEXT.

For my own experience, these wide-screen S.A.s have become more important to me lately as a result of recently using it with a Wide Angle PLUS Wide angle on the zoom AND in conjunction with a bellows Matte Box - this is so I can use my filters. OK this was also the case with shooting with 4:3, but for some reason I'm taking MORE care with wide-screen. This has forced me to adapt Peter suggestion/approach to ensure that I don't video the edges of the matte box or bellows - wanting as wide as can go and on wide angle. I now use a Wide-Screen monitor - oh yes!!

I have already recognised 2 fab reasons to use it:

1: That which we speak of, of above - nothing worse than a bellows appearing in the corners of your shot! YUCK!!

and

2: I get to nicely frame/compose for wide-screen. AND as my XM2 doesn't squish to Wide-screen in the tiny LCD, I get the "What-I-Shot-I-get-In-Vegas!" . Very happy now.

My widescreen gets to go through all the workflow AND the Safe Areas truly depict that which I shot. There IS stuff outside the SAs BUT I didn't see in the monitor while videoing. THIS is a good thing!

Your 1st sample I really have no idea how you achieved this. Unless you've tried out the various Pan/Cop features of Vegas.

Your 2nd sample shows the extreme backs of each head OUTSIDE the video safe areas. This part will not find its way onto a VHS, DVD or that which will be displayed on a TV. - WMP?!! Now, THAT'S another story!!

Grazie

Opening up Vegas 4 veg files, I tried to open a set of veg files when I was using Vegas 4, they didn't open. I got a 'this is an unsupported format.'

What would be my options for getting it open?

Thanks.

I don't have Vegas 4 anymore.

my footage from HC1 goes in visually acceptable and appears great in timeline. When I render it breaks apart badly? Is this my cheap vid card. DOes the vid card quality help with render quality?

Vid card bears no relevance. you didn't mention the format and bitrate to which you are rendering?

So what you're saying, in essence, is that my camcorder is capturing information that will never make it onto a TV screen - not even a widescreen one?
Damn....I should ask for 10% of my money back.

Vid card bears no relevance. you didn't mention the format and bitrate to which you are rendering?
Thank You! I guess my question is what should I do? I am shooting of road videos with HDR HC1's. I usually leave the .m2t files and transfer to hardrives. This time I down convertred to SD as it went to hardrive. The images are still great in the timeline, but as soon as I render, the edges of the rider or bike distort badly. Its less aparent on smaller screens, but still present. As for bitrate, I have no idea what that is. I am rendering the timeline in Mpeg2 with defualt setting. I have used others and its worse. Im just looking for a standard...thank you for your help

Well if you HAVEN'T all the scripts you want as tiny Icons on the toolbar - eh . .I just discovered "View Script Editor" - and yes this is for the knowledgeable creative script editors we can count to be fortunate to have amongst us - but I didn't know about this "Script Editor"? .. Well I do now!

Ctrl+Alt+0 will bring up this View. Once you have browsed for a script and have it in front of you in all its nakedness (. .hmmm .. nice! . .. ) you get to "RUN" the script and if you want to do it again .. just "RUN" it again .. and again ..

I've sometimes wanted to run a script without needing to have it on the toolbar; have its one icon and to be able to repeat its results.

We have Undo and Redo - but not Repeat Script. This is useful. Try it you might just like it. AND you get to see the innards of the script.

. .now there's a thought "Grazie! Put that script editor away!!! NOW!!!"

I guess somebody is gonna tell me that there is a simple switch/click to repeat last script??

.. so what DOES "var" mean? . .and "IncTime" ? ?

Grazie

Grazie, what app are you looking at?

var means you want to declare a variable.

IncTime is probably the variable name declared by the var (but without more reference it's hard to say)

Ditto! - Eh? vegas. Vegas 6d . .

Not necessarily. When you render for computer playback, you'll get the entire frame. When playing back on TV's, there's an overscan area which varies from TV to TV. In other words, play it back on 3 different makes/models of TVs and you'll like see three different amounts of footage.

If you wanted to send them to me, I could try to open them in 4, 5, and/or 6. Assuming it does open in at least one of them, it should be possible to work up to a Vegas 6 version.

So you can't ask for 10% back .. maybe a variable of the amount of TVs that obey your rendering . . and as I said, and Edward underlined, render for PC - viz the WMV/WMP I spoke of - gets me ALL my hidden sins "visible" from the borders - oh yes! Done that . . but we'll draw a veil over that mistake - thank you VERY much!!

Grazie

Bitrate rules! If you don't know what bitrate is, you'd better be for figuring it out. Low bitrate and high motion equal disaster/bad quality. You should likely be in the 8Mbps range for high motion. We shoot a LOT of MotoCross footage, andyou need a high bitrate. Additionally, do you have the stabilization in the camera turned on? That too, will affect the encode.

Bitrate rules! If you don't know what bitrate is, you'd better be for figuring it out. Low bitrate and high motion equal disaster/bad quality. You should likely be in the 8Mbps range for high motion. We shoot a LOT of MotoCross footage, andyou need a high bitrate. Additionally, do you have the stabilization in the camera turned on? That too, will affect the encode.
Thanks Douglas! Im looking in V6 now! Is that mod in trhe "render as" screen under "custom"/video/variable bit rate? I chose 15mbps all the way down...?

I've got a JVC H150C hooked up through my Panasonic PC-DV203 cam (firewire -> composite) but can't view any video except individual frames.

If I try to run the video, all I get is a blue screen on the monitor, and Vegas freezes when I stop the video. I have to turn off the little Panny to get Vegas back.

DMA is enabled, I've tried changing the Preview RAM and thread count, and video sync settings in Vegas. Nothing helps.

Anything else to look for or do?

P4, 1 GB RAM, 7200 rpm hard drives, XP Pro, MSI with AMI, Vegas 6.0d

I'm looking for some recording equipment. Is anyone familiar with the M-Audio Podcast Factory?

Heroglyph has an very frustrating non-standard UI but it does have "path motion" and you should be able to do handwriting - works as a Media Generator plugin to Vegas, 30day demo at
http://www.heroglyph.com/

/magnus

Shot a motorcycle race in HDV on Sony HDR HC1. Down converted to Sd as it went from Camera to hard drive. Everything looks great in the timeline-as soon as I render, dump it to DVD using architect 3, all the edges fall apart...? What is a good render template for fast motion SD?

When all was said and done, I had a bad video file, I'll have to recapture that particular file. It was the last file that was 'missing.'

Thanks as always Ed. I wanted to get this file open because it was the one I did the Starwars ending on. Kinda cool.

Problem fixed. I just re-captured that clip. The m2t file I was trying to swap back was corrupted probably due to a hard drive issue.

I don't use templates, but if I did....I'd use the NTSC DVD Architect video stream

The problem with Vegas' MPEG-2 templates is that they are VBR single pass. After choosing a template (DVDA NTSC etc.) click on 'Custom...', go to Video tab and check the 'Two-pass' box. You can also try CBR.

After finding what settings suit you best, you can save your own templates.

I have a subject with the green screen behind them but some of the green i cannot remove is it possible just to mask out that part of the background and leave the subject in? if you have any info that goes through this step by step please let me know

Thanks for your help

I capture from my JVC SR-VS20 deck via firewire to my pc using Vegas. All was working perfectly until yesterday--now I get audio crackling and dropped frames. I am able to capture perfectly using Premiere. The only thing I've done recently, which I greatly regret, was upgrading Nero 7 from the 6.6 version I had previously. It's total bloatware (I foolishly installed the full package, which includes Vision and some other video applets) and I've uninstalled it and gone back to 6.6. Since I'm able to capture with other software I know it's not that big of a deal, but I'd like to get the Vegas capture working the way it's supposed to anyway. I've reinstalled Vegas 6.0d. Soundcard and video drivers are all updated and I'm not sure which way to go with this other than a complete reinstallation of windows xp pro, which I'd love to avoid if possible.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Vin

Jim, try this suggestion I grabbed from one of the many Sony Vegas forums.

Insert the following tools in this order:

Chroma Blur set to Medium or Heavy blur depending on the edge.

Chroma Key effect.

Secondary Color Corrector (This is for spill supression)

The Secondary Color Corrector is used for the spill suppresion. The key is to leave it turned off until you have a solid key. Now that may leave a little green cast on the edges if your subject was too close to the background or if there was a bunch of bounce. DV also introduces some of this just by its color sample nature.

Go back and turn off the check box on the Chroma Key effect. Move over to your secondary color corrector. Under FX range, use the eyedropper to select the same general green area that you selected for the chroma key effect. Now slide all of the smooth sliders to the right. Most of the time you can slide the highs and lows for the Luma and the Saturation controls wide open and then just adjust the hue width to taste. Now go to the top section of the control and desaturate or rotate the hue to taste. Watch the offending edges only. Don't worry about the green sections that are going to be removed by the chroma key. The filter you are adjusting is after the chroma keyer, so they won't be there anyway.


Keith Kolbo also has a good tutorial at http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/viewarticle.cgi?id=31596

Have you tried a system restore point prior to the Nero 7 installation? But I doubt if it will work with all the installations you have done since...

Although I had been capturing to my SATA Maxtor 300gb 7200 secondary drive without a problem before, by switching the capture destination to my Raid 0 pair of drives, the dropped frames problem vanished. I assume my secondary drive needs a good defragging. Am I right to assume that I'd rather capture to my secondary drive since all of my editing apps are on my raid array? I also keep my fixed swap file on my secondary drive. Does this seem like a good disk arrangement for vid editing?
Thanks for the quick response, Dion...

The problem with Vegas' MPEG-2 templates is that they are VBR single pass. After choosing a template (DVDA NTSC etc.) click on 'Custom...', go to Video tab and check the 'Two-pass' box. You can also try CBR.

After finding what settings suit you best, you can save your own templates.
Getting there! I finally figured out the interleave issues and was in "Lower filed first". Changed it to Upper Field and it got a whole lot better. I also changed to "constant bitrate at 10mbps". I will try the "two pass" box as well. Thanks for your help. I spent most of my life in audio engineering with Avid and this video stuff is a bit different..

Just a thought but check to see if, during all these uninstall-reinstalls, your SATA drive didn't get switched to PIO mode instead of DMA/UDMA mode somehow. This would definitely cause drop frames.

I'm working with some of the filter presets that I downloaded from the VASST site -- cool ones like Another World. However, when I try to add an FX filter chain to a clip, it completely erases all the other FX I've already applied. Is there a way to add a set of FX filter presets (chain or packages or whatever they're called), without erasing the others?

For instance, I have a clip with a chroma key. I then click and add an FX chain. This FX chain is added, but the chroma key FX is erased off (because it's not part of the chain). I'd like to keep the chroma key FX without having to redo it, but add the chain after the chroma key. Is there a way to do this?

(Hopefully, my question made sense. I'm working in HDV, but I think this is a more general question that can apply to DV as well.)

Sorry Mike, but I don't understand what you are trying to do in selecting green in the SCC after the Chroma Key. That green will be keyed out when you re-enable the Chroma Keyer. What's the point?

While it's not a solution to the actual problem, here's a workaround:

Add a dummy event to the timeline (picture, text event, anything). Add the filter chain to that dummy event. Copy the dummy event. Paste Event Attributes to the original event. Delete the dummy event.

Oh yeah I have that actually! Thaz not a bad idea.. I could give it a try... someone else told me I could use AE to get it done as well. Thanks!

There's also a tutorial on this page showing how it can be done.

http://www.debugmode.com/wax/

Mike, you're damned good, 'cause when I went to defrag my sata drive, Perfect Disk analyzed it as not needing to do it, so I hopped on over to my device manager and, sure enough, my sata disk was in PIO mode...
I guess it's understandable that the bios on my moboard can get confused since I'm running raid ide, udma sata, and udma ide all at the same time. I may be a bit behind the times, but I love my Asus P4P800, very stable and very flexible.
Thanks Mike! If I hadn't checked on it myself first you would have saved the day!
Vin

I have just purchased and watched the new disk 4 on color correction from Vasst, Spot and Glenn. It answered a lot of questions. I don't want to make color correction simplified but the video showed me a lot of the tools offered in Vegas to color.

I have posted several issues that I have been having with my first professional project and I am going through the learning curve. Thanks for the help from this sight.

My project is a songwriter showcase of studio performance and interviews. It was done in HDCam with 3 cameras. I used Ultimate S to do my sd edit and I wanted to tackle some minor color correction to save me money from subbing it out. Is it good logic to say I could correct say 3 3 minute avi's and then perfor the say 20 cuts per song. There is not much if any change on each camera. One was a stationary pedestal, one was a hand held moving about the room and one was on a dolly with vertical movement.

My concern only is the change from cut to cut. Would it make sense to match each cut or try to balance the three tracks before cutting?

Jeff