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-   -   Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/537015-frameforge-worth-buying-storyboarding.html)

Brian Drysdale October 2nd, 2019 06:50 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Well it depends if this particular cop bends the rules. Not all police follow the rules, some well known film cops are known to sail close to the wind. There are also corrupt cops, undercover cops who have sex with members of the group they're running a surveillance operation on and other crimes.

You have to set this police character up so that it's not unexpected.

Ryan Elder October 2nd, 2019 07:06 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Well I don't want the cop to be a rule bender at first, not until the villains get away with things and go too far, then he bends the rules later. But I wanted him to start off as an honest cop, and this is early in the story, with this witness situation. So I can mention that the drink is non-alcoholic then if that's better. Some reader's thought it was unnecessary and random, that I mentioned that, but I could specify why he did it then if that's better.

Also, I am wondering how much needs explaining cause the same readers who were bothered by the alcohol, were also bothered by how I didn't explain how the cop knew she was going to be at a bar, since the sequence starts out in a bar.

But you see this in movies all the time, where the police know where someone is, and it's not explained. In The Dark Knight for example, the police arrest Maroni in a restaurant. How did they know he was going to be there? Why didn't they just arrest him at his home, and wait till he got back? It's not explained how they knew.

So do I really have to explain little things like that, like how the cop knew she was going to be at the bar?

Brian Drysdale October 2nd, 2019 08:00 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
That's for you to work out. Things can be explained in the script and then that hits the cutting room floor.

May be while out on patrol the cop sees her regularly going there. iI they've been out doing inquiries, who know what other people have said, May be she's known to be a big jazz fan and that's the place to be.Films have coincidences that solve story problems, "Doctor Zhivago" is full of them,"L.A. Confidential" has quite a few.

You should be able too work these things out yourself. Readers come with all kinds of stuff and it's your job to sort out the important stuff from details that in the greater scheme of things don't matter,

Brad Kraus October 2nd, 2019 10:47 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Ryan, I can't help but think that one of the biggest mistakes you are making here is trying to please everyone. It is great to put your script out there for feedback but when you do that, you will, of course, get critical feedback. This doesn't mean that you need to address every single point that is brought forward. Hell, it doesn't even mean that the readers are correct in their criticisms.

it is YOUR script. As Brian points out, you need to sift through all of the feedback and decide how much of it is important to YOU and which criticisms may be minor points that really won't matter to the viewers (or even to you as writer/director/etc.).

You need to stop giving even weight to every single comment that is made about your script and have the confidence to stand behind the decisions that you make and shoot the movie that YOU want to make. Remember, when all is said and done, the only feedback that really matters is whether the audience likes it or not.

Like others here have said, you may need to spend more time working on other people's movies to gain the experience that you need to be confident in your own vision and abilities. Just a thought...

Paul R Johnson October 2nd, 2019 02:42 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Brad's right. You are the CEO, we are your advisors - some of our advice is what we 'think' you want to do, some is way off the marek, some is likely wrong fro your context. Your job is to sift it, weight it, discard the chaff and keep the wheat.

Pete Cofrancesco October 2nd, 2019 03:22 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
I wouldn’t worry about Ryan he seems immune to our advice. Despite asking every conceivable filmaking question he seems to be only seeking confirmation for what he has already decided to do. What he lacks in skill and experience he makes up with unwavering determination. I’m not sure if it’s a blessing or a curse since I’m not convinced he’s well suited to be an indie filmmaker.

Someone summed it up best as trying to talk someone through landing a Boeing 747 with no flying experience. We also are in agreement that it would be better to gain experience working for someone else’s.

Ryan Elder October 2nd, 2019 11:34 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh sorry, I don't mean to not take the advice, I have taken some of the advice before. It's just sometimes I find some of the suggestions may cause more complications or problems, so I feel that maybe there is a solution out there that might be a solution I am missing, or want to cover all bases, therefore, that's all :).

As for directing this project, I actually thought it would be probably a good idea to get a co-director, so that co-director can concentrate on areas that I am not as familiar, where as I concentrate on directing the portions of the movie, I feel I am more familiar with. I asked other filmmakers and the were split, with some saying co-directing worked well for them in the past, and others saying it's a terrible idea, and it could very well ruin the movie and be a waste of money. What do you think?

Brian Drysdale October 3rd, 2019 01:11 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Writing a good script, never mind a great script, is always full of "complications or problems" if it isn't the script is probably not that good because you are unaware of them. You may be lucky and have a straight run without having any issues, but that's unusual, especially for an inexperienced writer.

It's impossible to cover all the bases, Kubrick attempted to do this later in his career and I doubt he managed it, even through he was driving people around him crazy.

I'm not sure what directing areas you are familiar with. since, based on your threads here, even the basic stuff seems to be causing difficulty or you are unsure about. Good directors tend to be focused and even if quiet in their approach, strong characters, who can think on their feet, so there are pretty of areas for possible conflict with an unsure co-director.

Paul R Johnson October 3rd, 2019 02:33 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Yep - rather brings us back to the basic question - he's unaware of how good or bad he is at everything he tries. I tried to get him to do an audit - to produce a quality statement for himself, in the hope he'd end up with a list of things he's excellent at, or OK with or needs to improve - with the intention that a lightbulb would come on and he'd see where to focus his effort. I don't think he gets it at all.

I've had somebody angling for a job. Their teacher at college tells me how wonderful they are, and twenty minutes on the phone revealed HUGE holes in their knowledge that because of their qualification they were unaware of. However - they sounded really shocked, almost horrified they got really good grades yet didn't know some really basic stuff. They've just asked if they can work on a production next week for some real world experience. I was honest - I told her I was actually short of a number 3 sound, but I hadn't been able to find a girl - something I cannot do without. If she could commit to 3 dates she's in. I was very blunt and said that letting me down would be totally unacceptable. There was a pause and she said in a considered voice - I won't let you down. Good enough for me. It's also a test for her. She will be expected to use her own judgement and minimal experience to make it happen. No supervision, no seeking advice from others. She will have to cope from day one, or sink. I don't expect her to go on a forum and seek advice because she will discover a problem and solving it immediately, on her own is the only path that will work. From the phone conversation, I think she's a good risk.

Our friend Ryan could not manage this kind of circumstance from what I have realised here.

You get a feel for people who will be 'managers' - no matter what, in anything they turn their mind too. I've sadly come to the conclusion Ryan will be an eternal planning phase person. Never quite ready to carry out the roles he wishes to experience. Wanting something guarantees nothing.

"OK, right" seems to be a very common response, as if it means fully understood, then like politics, the follow up question appears - "so you mean.......?" Which we rarely do.

Pete Cofrancesco October 3rd, 2019 05:21 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Ryan reminds me a bit of my aunt who was always unsure if she made the right decision. Years later I read an interesting article that talked about the role of emotions in the decision process. While you would think logic and reason would be the primary driving force, it turns out it’s not.

For example if I offer you a choice between an apple or an orange, a hot dog or a hamburger, they are both equal in value, without an emotional and irrational reaction it’s difficult to choose. It’s like asking a computer it’s favorite color. All the intelligence and knowledge in the world can’t help it answer this question. Logically speaking red, green, and pink have the same value.

It makes me think this is why he needs a co-director to handle subjective decisions or why he relies on rules or classic movies to help make decisions. Maybe I’m wrong but I thought I’d throw that out there.

Brian Drysdale October 3rd, 2019 06:24 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Emotions are the reason that advertising works so well for brands.

Ryan Elder October 3rd, 2019 07:06 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Well I feel that everything turns out better in the planning phase then the final execution and thought maybe I could use a co-director who is more aware of handling problems during shooting, where as I feel I am much better in the planning phase.

But I feel like I take a good amount of the advice on here though. I was told not to break the 180 degree rule except in certain circumstances, so I won't do that again, or I was told to not shake the gimbal movement, so I will find a better gimbal operator, etc.

I'm just doing the best I can, but I feel I must keep pushing forward, but that's good in a way, isn't it?

Brian Drysdale October 3rd, 2019 07:22 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
I'm not sure how that would work, since the other director may let you do your thing and mostly ignore your storyboard/shot list. You could just end up being the storyboard artist.

Josh Bass October 3rd, 2019 08:10 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Yeah. I would say you/Ryan need to learn to get BETTER in the areas where youre weak. I still say (and the ten or more people here and in other threads whove contributed have said as much) you are not ready to make a feature. You keep asking people here for opinons, so do you actually trust what we tell you? I know you dont want to spend money on more shorts but I think you should do some short pieces, paid or not, and practice the types of scenes/techniques youve been asking about before you blow your finances on a feature. Prove to yourself that can actually pull off even a short or simple scene before you jump off a cliff onto a feature and get in over your head.

Pete Cofrancesco October 3rd, 2019 08:27 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
I’m not saying you’re obligated to take our advice. Most of your questions aren’t really questions. For example when you ask should you co-direct I can tell you’ve already made up your mind that’s what you’d like to do. If that’s what works for you by all means try it. But I agree with Brian that it’s only natural another director is going want to take over and do things his way and in the process change a lot of what you planned out. As long as you’re ok with that then you should be fine.

I like Josh see this co-director thing as a red flag that you’re not ready to direct a feature film. We aren’t trying to unfairly criticize you. Based on what you’ve told us you seem to perpetually throwing yourself into difficult situations that you’re ill equipped or prepared to handle. It’s better to build off smaller more manageable situations where your chance of success is greater. Creating a low budget feature indie film is really hard not many of us could or would want to take on that task. So there is no shame if you decide that you’d be better at limiting yourself to a smaller role in someone else movie.

Josh Bass October 3rd, 2019 08:35 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
He probably isnt fine with it. I suspect he still wants all the control he’d have as sole director without the burden of handling the aspects he’s uncomfortable with.

Ryan Elder October 3rd, 2019 10:14 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Well my biggest weekness is directing good performances out of the actors so i thought i could get a co-director to direct the acting while i direct the shot decisions with the dp and the crew.

Josh Bass October 3rd, 2019 10:22 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Right. We’re saying you might have your other wishes outside of the performances ignored and get steamrolled by your co director. In other words he/she may overstep their bounds and do/change more than you want them to. Maybe a contract should be in place to establish clear division of duties and prevent that.

Pete Cofrancesco October 3rd, 2019 10:34 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
What you’re describing is you would be the Director of Photography and he/she would be the Director but limited to only acting and you would have final say. It’s a bit odd, I guess you can do whatever you want if you can find someone who would agree to those terms.

Brian Drysdale October 3rd, 2019 10:36 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
The director dealing with the actors may completely change your planned blocking, so that you are well out of your comfort zone because you'll have to think on your feet, plus deal with the possibly that the DP may tend to listen to the other director because they're dealing with the actors.

The successful co directors tend to have a long term working relationships, which can cover a number of roles in which they work as a partnership. The small number of such working relationships show how difficult they are to form and to survive in a world of big egos.

Paul R Johnson October 3rd, 2019 11:41 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Sharing in my humble opinion only ever works where the two people sit down and draw up a formal and agreed allocation of roles AND responsibility. Otherwise, the director wants it done his way, the DoP wants the shot his way and one person must win. I suspect I know it wouldn't be Ryan - he constantly lets people walk all over him even when they are totally clueless. I cannot think of a worse way to lose my money.

Far too often nowadays, the title is more important than what they do. I don't know ANY Directors silly enough to be under the DoP. The Directing role is 100% creative, while the camera role is a mix of art and craft. Difficult to balance with somebody with just one aim.

Josh Bass October 3rd, 2019 11:57 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
But Ryan wouldnt be the DoP...cause he’ll have a separate person with that title.

Pete Cofrancesco October 3rd, 2019 12:07 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
I’ve said this before half jokingly but I would rather see the behind the scenes reality tv show of the making of these idie pictures. Edited properly that would be vastly more entertaining. “The Reel World” I’m trademarking that! A bunch NYC film school grads living in the same apartment, trying to get their first feature film off the ground.

Ryan Elder October 3rd, 2019 12:15 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh well i wouldnt be under the dop. My idea was to have a contract in place to address such matters. I just thought a co-director would be good to handle the acting sides of it.

Josh Bass October 3rd, 2019 12:28 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco (Post 1953757)
I’ve said this before half jokingly but I would rather see the behind the scenes reality tv show of the making of these idie pictures. Edited properly that would be vastly more entertaining. “The Reel World” I’m trademarking that! A bunch NYC film school grads living in the same apartment, trying to get their first feature film off the ground.

Thats KINDA what HBO’s Project Greenlight was except it was probably heavily manufactured.

Pete Cofrancesco October 3rd, 2019 12:56 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Bass (Post 1953760)
Thats KINDA what HBO’s Project Greenlight was except it was probably heavily manufactured.

Since I don’t have cable or any of the streaming services I’m pretty out of touch with current state of tv and multitude of reality shows. Recently someone was discussing the future of the Emmys being on broadcast tv. The divide between broadcast tv and cable/streaming has grown so large that the broadcast audience would have no idea of what all these shows that live on paid tv.

yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if my idea has already been done but I’m still trademarking “Reel World”

Paul R Johnson October 3rd, 2019 01:11 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder (Post 1953759)
Oh well i wouldnt be under the dop. My idea was to have a contract in place to address such matters. I just thought a co-director would be good to handle the acting sides of it.

Confused - I thought you were more into the cameras/framing/image?

How on earth will you decide when a situation arises which Director is correct?

John Nantz October 3rd, 2019 01:34 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder (Post 1953750)
Well my biggest weekness is directing good performances out of the actors so i thought i could get a co-director to direct the acting while i direct the shot decisions with the dp and the crew.

Someone who is good with directing the actors will, after a short time, probably have the actors on his side with regard to any issues, and once that happens, probably some of the other staff. In effect, the actor-director could easily wind up running the show.

It isn't necessarily how much one knows but how the personalities play out. Based on my past experience I've seen it so often when the "Boss" knows less than the people under him but because the boss is a good talker, schmoozer, (what ever), he runs the show (office, department, etc.).

It would not be a good situation if someone was brought in with a decent title wound up getting everybody on his or her side.

Even in the military where one has to follow orders, there have been cases where the troops under the leader have sabotaged or done away with the one above them. This problem even happens in politics (many recent cases for example in the media). Not a nice scenario.

The co-director better be someone who is a known quantity and who will never undermine your direction.

Don't think I'd want to start with someone on a feature film. Maybe start with some commercials and work the way up over time.

Something to consider.

Edit: Case in point. Captain (that is, CAPTAIN) Vancouver performed a remarkable voyage for the crown by charting the Pacific Northwest to Alaska and actually charting much of the Pacific Coast down to Chilie under the most arduous conditions. A crew of mostly convicts and some passengers who were along to do science and hopefully make big names for themselves. Five years away from Great Britain, almost lost his ship on a rock in British Columbia. This at a time when many voyages into the unknown resulted in the death of many of the crew due to illness from things like scurvy or work related accidents. Climbing a tall mast in a gale going through the Strait of Magellan is not for sissies. A remarkable accomplishment charting the coast and much of the charts that were made were used even up until relatively recent times.

Question: Why wasn't Captain Vancouver ever rewarded what he deserved? A little back story. One of the passengers was a son of a highly placed person in the British government (House of Lords? don't remember what but had a lot of pull). This passenger did not get along with Captain Vancouver and caused a lot of hate and discontent between the other passengers and, I think, even crew. On the return voyage this passenger jumped ship (not an exact term) in one of the Spanish ports and got back to England before Captain Vancouver's ship did and arranged to put Captain Vancouver on trial. Captain Vancouver managed to escape a court martial or worse but his reputation was severely damaged.

In this case it was nearly all about personalities. Once leaving port [f.e., starting the movie] there was no changing the situation until the return [the movie is completed]. I'm admittedly biased because Captain Vancouver is one of my heroes and from what I've read was done wrong. Never the less, there are many example throughout history where the boss got s*****d.

An interesting side note: Back then the higher-ups often wore wigs and the wigs had lead in them. The constant wearing of the wig caused the wearer to "go mad". Pictures of Captain Vancouver show him with a wig. Not saying this was the cause of a personality problem but may have been a factor. Being stuck with a passenger problem bordering on mutiny for five years would cause anybody to have problems.

Ryan Elder October 3rd, 2019 02:43 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh ok thanks that makes sense. There has even been some sabotage on some sets i worked in as well. One time some of the the actors and crew lost confidence in the director and the DP started running the show.

But if i don't have a co-director, can another person help with the performances like the AD then perhaps?

Brian Drysdale October 3rd, 2019 04:09 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
You could employ a dialogue coach, the AD has nothing to do with directing actors, only the background action, not the main cast. However, the risk is that the actors may look more towards them than you, if your communication skills are poor..

In the longer term, you won't have much of a career as a drama director if you can't direct actors. It's something you have to learn if you wish to be a feature film director. There are other types of productions you can direct without needing to work much with actors, but with feature films it's mostly what the job is about.

Writer/Producer is not unusual, with the director doing the directing. Some co-directing credits are actually this, but the people involved know each other extremely well, so blur the edges,

Ryan Elder October 3rd, 2019 05:20 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Yeah, that makes sense. I can just do my best to direct the actors then, if that's best.

Paul R Johnson October 4th, 2019 01:31 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
"If that's best?"

Ryan, if you want to be a director, then for goodness sake, direct!. Be in charge, be authoritative and in your case where the money is yours, YOU are paying these people. They are working for you, you are paying their personal bills by providing funds. If you really want to be walked over, disregarded, overruled and ignored then let it happen, otherwise you have two options. Take charge. Accept no compromise and follow the vision. Your cop out of having somebody else co-direct is a 100% cop out. You're actually saying I'm no good with confrontation or instant decision making and have little confidence in yourself. If this is correct you are ill suited to direct anything. You seem to want the best bits and have somebody else do the worst bits, but the director is the centre of the world, and ego bashing between two directors won't work. If one of the two can control things and one can't, what's the point of being outmanoeuvred at every decision stage.

Years ago I discovered a problem with how I managed. I wanted to not be the bad news person, so I'd make a decision that X had to change but I'd say something like "a couple of people have pointed out this, or even say that the producer won't like this, we have to change" and the big famous person would preen and say " I'll get my agent to call John, I think it's fine" John being the producer. I suddenly realised that the buck stopped with me, so I changed and started like this. "I don't like this bit, we need to change it to this" and oddly the highly paid, well known people said " oh, OK, how about this?" When you want things done, you're the boss, so just make decisions, don't try to rationalise them, they'll fight back with alternatives. Just state it. "We're going to cut that last bit of your speech, and move straight to the door opening" it's weird but silence, hesitation and pauses invite discussion and you lose control. It doesn't even matter if your idea is bad, because it's your call.

David Knaggs October 4th, 2019 03:12 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
That is really great advice, Paul. In fact, it's great advice for anybody looking to direct (not just Ryan).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Kraus (Post 1953724)
You need to stop giving even weight to every single comment that is made about your script ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Kraus (Post 1953724)
Remember, when all is said and done, the only feedback that really matters is whether the audience likes it or not.

Also great advice!

Ryan Elder October 4th, 2019 07:08 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh okay. Well I didn't think that a co-director was a cop out, since some movies that are successful have had co-directors working together. Plus it was said that I am not ready for a feature, so I thought that might help.

But I already got other people interested in it now, and I feel I should do it after years of working on other sets, and I feel the time is just now, with the money I have rather than spend it on more shorts. But I guess that's just me. I feel I can do it if I have really good actors and a really good DP, since I was told the acting and cinematography are my weaknesses.

I am actually much more authoritative on set, and act much more confident, and that I know what I want. Is it bad for director's take suggestions from others though, if the suggestions are good?

Paul R Johnson October 4th, 2019 07:47 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Not at all, it's like the armed forces, the number two is expected to offer suggestions to the commanding officer for consideration, and only a stupid no. 1 would ignore a better suggestion - but the problem is you won't know if it's better and have to get on your computer to ask us with the usual 'I've been told ........."

We're not picking in you Ryan, but trying very hard to make you consider your abilities and make progress - but it's painfully slow, often stuck in loops and frequently a bang head against a brick wall moment.

I'd be an impossible person for you to direct. How long does it take people to work out your unsureness, or reluctance to make a plan and stick to it? I'd be one of those throwing continual 'better' suggestions, because many of us are really good at making decisions of people's capabilities. I do it all the time. Speak to somebody new for five minutes and then decide if I can just leave them to it, or will I have to keep checking?

When I was a teacher we did this all the time in college - first impressions, first day and it was very rare to have got it wrong. I used to have three private categories Leader, follower and no hope and I'd make the selection the first day and get it right most times. When I got it wrong it was usually not noticing a follower had grown into a leader. I don't think I ever labelled somebody a leader, and had to change this in 14 years!

Ryan Elder October 4th, 2019 12:24 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh ok, thanks, i know you are helping and not oucking in me, thanks ☺.

I just thought it was a good idea to take suggestions if i felt someone had an idea better than mine. One time an actor asked if he could change a couple of lines for example and i though his lines were better than in the script.

Or one time the DP recommended a shot that was unplanned for more coverage so i said sure since we had time.

Is that bad of me?

Brian Drysdale October 4th, 2019 01:50 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
No, as director, it's your job to grab ideas from where ever you can get them. This happens regularly on films.

Paul R Johnson October 4th, 2019 03:39 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
These changes are not a problem Ryan - taking on good ideas is a sound policy.

Ryan Elder October 5th, 2019 11:48 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Oh okay. Well when it comes to coverage and getting shoots done rapidly, I was thinking for all the major characters that need coverage, I should give them no more than two shots each. So if I have a scene between two people for example, two wide shots and two close ups. Unless I really need other shots for this scene during certain moments.

But what do you think, is that enough? So far it seems to have worked, unless people mind a minimal amount of shots like that?

Paul R Johnson October 5th, 2019 12:07 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
 
Rather defeats the idea of your storyboard? You don't allocate shots like this, you choose them to tell the story!!

We are just wasting our time here - you have gone straight back to your needing a rule for everything.

Do you honestly think any of the movies we've used as examples ever had a rule about how many shots they'd need for each scene?

Running time, divided by scenes, multiplied but the inverse of the quantity of lead characters divided by supporting cast, multiplied by the number of times the 1st AD went to the toilet!


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