I've got a B+W +10 diopter on order for my GL2. Can't wait to test it out.

I have figured out a static (no moving parts) solution. The test is very promising. I'm still waiting for parts to complete the whole thing. Once complete, I'll have an adapter which:

1. produce upright image
2. smaller (6x10 cm)
3. higher image quality and brighter.

The downside is that the complete cost to produce such adapter will cost a few hundred, might cost more depending on the quality of the coating and glass.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/louisfeng@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/35mm+Adapter&.dnm=model.jpg

Vendi35 !!!

Sounds interesting. No moving parts though? How is the image plane resolved? Onto what?

Bring it on.

- don

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : I think, and I could be the minority but I wouldn't think I am... if it is a loss of quality or light steps flipping the image is not needed if you could somehow see the image right side up while you are shooting (ie flipped on a monitor or lcd).

I would rather that then lose quality. -->>>

peter,
(and others, of course)

i think that there is a place where you can put a prism for inverting!
if the small prism (DOVE PRISM) is mounted as kind of EXPANDER of normal viewfinder (between your eye and a viewfinder) - you will NOT change a picture (quality) at all, you will se everything in a proper way - but you will of course need to flip recorded image after the shooting.
considering small monitor already with the cameras - i think that VERY simple device can be added to commercial version of agus35 - small mirror laying down on one side of "LCD chimney" - so if you are turning your camera monitor bit down - you will look at that mirror which turns everything upside down. so the image foer the viewer will be again proper one.
does this make a sense?

For people who don't use the viewfinder as much as a lcd or crt monitor this viewfinder idea is not good. If you're going to do any handheld work we'll need to see an lcd right side up.

As for the mirror LCD idea, I implimented this with my unit weeks ago... this still has the BIG problem that everything is still flipped horrizontally.

Vendible Book,
Sounds good ...what type of camera are you using??
Looking forward to pix

The limiting factor of the current method (mini35) is the requirement of moving the GG. P+S was able to create something fairly small because they probably machined the parts as small as possible. The sole purpose of the rotating/vibrating GG is to reduce the artifacts produced by the coarseness of the GG.

I have been testing a number of solutions, ground glass and other kind of materials to produce a diffusing surface that is very fine, so fine that it appears to be white to the camera. With such surface, you can project image on to it and there won't be any noticeable artifacts. The result is pretty close, but not yet there. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : As for the mirror LCD idea, I implimented this with my unit weeks ago... this still has the BIG problem that everything is still flipped horrizontally. -->>>


of course, peter - you are absolutelly right. i was too fast with that one.

mea culpa.

filip

This is a very rough test of the my static solution. I am still looking for method to improve the quality. Especially in terms of transmitting more light and to be able to "distribute" more light to the corners. Maybe a frensel lens would help.

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/louisfeng@sbcglobal.net/lst?.dir=/35mm+adapter

Venible

If you use a screen that is diffuse enough, like the one i decribed to you, it should not need any fresnel, well from the tests i have read of it, it hasn't required one.

Zac

Hey, I tried to post this yesterday, but I may have found a way to not have to use a spinning CD. I had to scrap the spinning CD because of the size of my camcorder (which made it virtually impossible for me to have a spinning cd). The non moving method has no scratches, dust, etc. The image is bright too.

I used very thin, slightly diffused plastic and if i triple the layers it becomes diffused enough to create the projection. Worked for me. I was using other still pieces and the scratches from the sandpaper were just too noticeable. I knew there had to be an alternative. I'm not sure how it compares to the spinning CD, but it works for me.

Yeah, you need to zoom or magnify it. If you are zoomed in as far as possible, then you need to magnify it before you capture it. I have had problems with the vignetting, but that was due to my holes being off and not totally centered. I was able to zoom in a little more and that fixed the problem...this is just with the lens going straight into the camera without the frosted glass. Haven't got my hands on the sandpaper yet. Hope it works!

Hey Corey,
Can you post some pix?

Corey,

What is this plastic you are talking about? And, where did you pick it up...as stated, I am waiting for the frosted CD, frosted plastic, etc. to complete generation 2 of the Agus35. Let us know ASAP! Thanks in advance...

Clay

This may seem like a dumb question to some, but after some browsing, I couldn't find an answer.

On a canon FD lens, how do you open the iris? Does the lens have to be attached to a camera?

I turn the aperture adjustment ring and it clicks, but the iris doesn't budge. Do I have to hold one of the pins on the back of the lens and then turn it or what?

Here is a picture of the lens:
http://www.canonfd.com/lenswork/lenswork010.htm

Thanks in advance

Spass

Jeremiah (or is it "Spass"?),

Sounds like the silver locking ring collar on the back of the lens is locked into "lens detached" position.

If you are looking at the back of the FD lens:
1) Press down on the tiny Positioning Pin closest to the Red Dot on the outer back ring.
2) Move rear locking collar fully counter-clockwise.
3) Swing the rear "Automatic aperture lever to the right until it clicks into position.

You will now be able to open and close the iris by moving the iris control ring on the lens. Note that as you move the iris ring, the rear "Aperture signal lever" will move to a new position, depending on what you set the iris control ring to.

- don

I'm surprised that no one has yet asked that classic inevitable question: How does the Agus35 compare to the Vendi35 in terms of Low Light performace? >joke<

Well,,, I guess you could possibly mount a Lomo Night Vision scope to your adaptor,,, ;-)
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightvision.html

- don

Don, that's a good one. Actually I think Agus's last video looks really good. However, it's an outdoor shooting, lighting is much more abundant in that case. I have yet to see anyone that can handle in door lighting well.

It should be noted that the video I shoot was shooting directly from the GG without any cover and was not modified or color corrected in anyway. I'm sure it will look brighter when everything is in a blackbox. But I'm not expecting dramatic improvement from this type of GG (hint, hint).

In fact I am wondering how good the mini35 is, considering there really isn't that much light passing through the lens. I don't believe there is any magic that somehow they can "squeeze" more light from how much there actually is. Again, it probably works well outdoor with bright sun light. I haven't seen any "bright" indoor shots on their web site (most are dark and smoky).

Having played with different kinds of real ground glass, I can tell you that the best/finest ground glass can only produce ok results in a static solution. However, there are other materials can do much better job, both transmitting more light and produce clearer image, but also cost a lot more. Let science do the magic, that's what I'm going to test next. I might even impress myself.

Regarding using ground glass/plastic/consumer products

All the materials above will work fine with a rotating/vibrating solution. The downside is they scatter too much light in every direction. They are not specially made for this video recording.

A static solution is even harder. Ground glass won't work, plastic CD won't work, any short of consumer product won't work. They all produce uneven illumination or visible noise.

I am only considering a static solution for myself, because it would be much more cumbersome to produce an upright image with the rotating/vibrating solution. The missing part right now is to find the best material for the projection. I might have found what I need. I'll know in a few days.

Plastic Sheeting. It's real cheap. 3-4 layers should be enough. Works pretty good. It doesn't need to be rotated, because it's not all scratched up. I'm not sure how it compares to the CD though. I will see if I can get some photos or videos up later. I'm still having some vignetting issues.

Vendible Book,

i noticed some plans you posted earlier, but they don't make much sense and the picture is a bit small to study properly, is there anyway you could label what goes in and where from a few different angles, with bigger pictures so i can see how it is working?

Thankyou,

zac

If people want to go the non-moving groundglass route, then medium format objective lenses onto a larger fixed forsted glass might be the way to go., ie., bigger format bigger groundglass, smaller grain defects across the image.

It may be feasable to use the whole of a secondhand medium format camera or modify it to mount the small camcorder.

Originally posted by Agus Casse:

hey Jim, thanks for that credit dude !!

i see that you are having some vibration problems, are you using a cd motor ? did you sanded the cd or was a already frosted one ?

Re: the credit -- of course, man!

Re: the shaking image -- that's a design problem that will be overcome when I build and mount my rail system. For the moment, the adapter is "free-standing," attached to the front of my GL1 with a piece of rubber coupling and an adjustable metal strip that tightens around the lens housing. While the weight is nice and it keeps the adapter tight to the front of the camera, the rubber has enough give as to shake when I make any adjustments to the film lens...

Any tips on where you got the parts for your rail setup? I really like the curved handle you put in place...but the overall design is nicely simple and effective.

- jim

Hey Jim, do you have some pics to share? I too have a xm2 and would like to see your setup being that we have the same camera. Thanks

Perhaps we should separate this thread to continue the progress about the agus35, and make a new one for the new vendi35

Charles:

I've got pics up but they're hardly conclusive:


http://ideaspora.net/agus35/front.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/rear.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motor.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/assembled.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motordetail.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/sanded.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finished.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedmount.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedrear.jpg



I will have tutorial up by the second week of January.

- jim

Thanks Jim. Looks pretty neat :)

To those who have completed their systems: what type/power macro lenses do you use? I know some have used the macro portion of their WA adapters, but some must be using regular macro/close-up filters. What power are you using? Can you zoom through these a bit and still pull focus on the projected image? Since this is the only portion of the project that involves purchasing a legitimate piece of equipment I'd like to be well informed about what works. I'd like this thing to be as compact as possible. Thanks!

this is just a thought but would the material they use for rear projection TV's work for the static solution? same principle something is projected onto it from the rear and you see it on the other side. might not pass enought light thru though for this application.

Now if anyone has acess to some of this material it might be worth a try

oh yea, I just had to say:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/positive10.jpg

hello people.!

Vendi, you are wrong about NO GROUND GLASS that provides a good static solution.

I went to a used photo cam store and i found a cam by ZENITH that has a GROUND GLASS with a DIFUSING (fresnel?, im a brazilian, here we call it `lente difusora`)

lens attached behind it!

man, IT REALLY WORKS >expletive removed< GREAT

the GG was made 40 years ago. is perfect, besides only a scratch that i dont notice everytime.

and the grain is very little, it only adds a more film look aspect.

no vignette, no nothing, cause the DIFUSING LENS behind it just EXPAND the lens image to the WHOLE GROUND GLASS!!

if you tell me where to send the video i made (without the things adapted to a box), i will upload right now.

CIAO

Hey Daniel,
If you want to send the video to me I can post on my site.
Can you also take photos of your rig and post them.

Just an idea.
taylor@moorefilms.com

...AH, the man who selled me, said that its almost impossible to find one of those these days!!!!
i bought it for 10$ .

NONE of others photo cams ground glasses is the same CLEAN as this one.

scratch my rear projection Idea all they use is a fresnal no acutal screen. looking back on what daniel discoverd though maybe we should take a ground glass and a fresnal sandwitched together?

"the grain is very little, it only adds a more film look aspect."

I said that no GG will work for high quality. You saw the grain, and I know exactly what you saw.

To me it only produces ok results. Try move the camera and have objects move in front of it, also try different light angles. The grain is certainly not film like, the grains are static, makes it look like it's shooting behind a glass (which is true).

If you scale your video to smaller size, this works fine, because the grain will be averaged out and not as visible. But for real things like DVD, or indy film, higher quality is needed. But again, Super fine GG will produce ok results, just not great. If you think it's good enough, then it's good enough.

If you want to produce an upright image, take a look at my design, better yet, improve it.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18690

I said that its very little.

i know that im talking about.

i cant see no grain even when the lens projected image is not covered from light, i dont see any grain at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i put this on the tv, and no grain, and the test was even without a cover.

i can show you the footage.

by the way, have you ever tried to use a real photocam ground glass?

man, ZENITH is RUSSIAN COMPANY, they know it all.

ciao

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : ...AH, the man who selled me, said that its almost impossible to find one of those these days!!!!
i bought it for 10$ .

NONE of others photo cams ground glasses is the same CLEAN as this one. -->>>

daniel,

i didn't tried it yet, but here in poland you can find TONS of that ZENIT (wthout "H") - if this is the same producer - this was USSR 35mm still camera. Are we are talking about the same thing? What camera (type/model) you have?

if you find it interesting - (the zenit ground glass) - i can check here and there and maybe send it where needed. i'm sure that you can find here zenit in proper working condition - the whole photo camera (WITH the lens) for 15-20$ max (which means that theoretically GG will cost much, much less).

so, if yo buy the whole camera - you can use the GG and experiment with the rest - the lens, maybe also pentaprism - who knows. but i'm not sure about packing and transport fees...
anyhow - at least you can try.
is it possible to find somewhere your tests with that ZENIT GG?

filip

Here are a few Zenit links:

http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/zenit_cameras.htm

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

http://www.rus-camera.com/camera.php?page=zenit&camera=zenit

it not a new zenith camera.

it was from an old zenith, 50's

the seller told me that those flat ground glass (with no grain) is almost impossible to find these days cause all the cameras are with the same glasses but the flat ground glass is marked with something, like a ball inside it.

ciao

Hi Daniel,

How is it spelled on your camera?

Is it spelled like "Z-E-N-I-T-H"? (with an "H" at the end?)

OR is it spelled like "Z-E-N-I-T"? (with NO "H" at the end?)

- don

i dont have the camera anymore, just the ground glass

i think is zenit, only.

Taylor Moore said that was going to put the pic of it on his web site

Video from Daniel Moloko

Here is Daniels link
www.moorefilms.com/daniel.htm

about the test:

it was just for you people to take a look at the ground glass.

and i just put it on the front of the lens i got. it doesnt grain.

anyway, i think its better than the AGUS rotating project cause the fresnel attached just does everything i need - no vignetting.

and if u think it is still graining, i say that it may be graining, but just as much as the spinning frosted CD.

daniel,

do yo remember which model was that one you took the ground glass from? i mean not the year, but type... ZENIT E, ZENIT B... or other?

(i do not know if this is clear enough, english is not my native language. to be honest it's my fifth)

filip

Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?

Originally posted by Peter Sciretta : Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?
i think it would be awesome if it didn't move. then you woudnt need that big ugly cd spindle+motor. but, can some1 take a pic of their ground glass? i used 400 gritt and cannot see clearly through it so i am wondering how the camera would get a clear picture?

Might be of some help:

http://lists.kjsl.com/pipermail/acg/2003-October/000639.html

Someone talking about ground glass and substitutes he has tried (for making cameras).

Quote:

"I have used frosted acrylic film purchase in a tablet of about 25 sheets from an art supply store. This is intended for Ink Drawing and is frosted on one side only. It produces excellent images. It is available in different thickness. I happened to like 0.005" inch thick. In-fact I will be using the thicker sheets and plain clear-glass to replace the view-screen on a TLR I have been completely restoring. The plain glass will be on the outside to allow durability."


I haven't tried this as I am still waiting for a few parts, however, it may be a viable alternative to the sanding.


Best,
Von

"Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?"

There are materials beyond ground glass and spinning cds. Don't be hasty, I have something in mind and as far as I can tell, it would be perfect for this application. But it's not something you can find in Walmart.

"i used 400 gritt and cannot see clearly through it"

400 grit? You'll see something better when it's over 1000 grit, and don't use sand papers, they only mess things up. Use these aluminium oxide dusts. But I can tell you that I have tried and it only gives ok result. For high quality, you need something more special.

For what it is worth, you may find the following Optics FAQ handy:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/TechSupport/optics.cfm

Optics:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Browse.cfm?catid=10

Fresnel Lenses:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?Productid=2039

this looks very familiar
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1966

T-Mount Adaptors (hmmmm...):
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1460

More Lens Adaptors:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1459

Video Lenses?:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/Catalog/Custom/218.cfm

Cool!!!:
http://www.nightowloptics.com/addframe.asp?main=http://www.nightowloptics.com/products/modeldetails.asp?product=NOCA42

- don

Maybe i found a solution.

i was thinking about a MOVING SYSTEM MOTOR that can vibrate something while not spining it. (i have a ground glass thats like a 16x9 screen)

so, have u ever seen the system of a ELETRIC SHAVER?????

the eletric shaver can vibrate doing a moviment from left to right, left right, really fast so that the shavers knifes (lamines? dont know the english words for it) vibrate till then dissapear...thats just what we need, remember???????????


when we are going to try it???

ciao