Furthur to above, I did not get to shoot any shadow footage to compare with the Mini35 on JVCHD250, of the music video today due to confined spaces and the urgency of keeping the shoot on time and on track.

However, the Mini35 had inhaled a piece of dirt from somewhere and it fell to my task to assist pulling it apart. The owner had some trepidations but also met the necessity of learning to do it on set for the sake of being able to in the future should such come to pass.

I had no such trepidations. The owner suggested such, knowing full well I would not mind in the least, the chance of peering into the entrails and reading its future. Well in truth, there was a little concern I might do harm however this concern was illfounded.

The Mini35, once dismounted from the camera is fairly straightforward to deal with for dust contaminants for someone with a small flat bladed screwdriver and good mechanical facility.

In this event, we dismounted the camera and dealt with the Mini35 whilst it was still mounted to the steadycam sled, a handy loft as it turned out..

Four screws removed and the back panel with the entire prism block comes out rearwards, cleans easily and goes back on within half a minute.

Interestingly for me, I had examined such a construction method for my AGUS35 but because I was designing something which could tolerate construction errors of up to 5mm, it was an approach I abandoned - stupid me.

They had a Seitz follow focus for the steadycam and set it up to run my 14mm and 20mm Sigma for Nikon mount ultrawides.

Although these are not geared, a rubber tyre created by a thick red rubber stationery band was sufficient for the follow focus gear to move the lens focus with acceptable accuracy.

Autofocus lenses when switched to manual offer very little operating friction, so the follow focus worked. I am not sure how much sideloading these lenses will tolerate over time, so proper gears should be fitted. If the lenses are allowed to hit end of travel, they will rock slightly in the mount.

All in all, an interesting exercise. I shall post the YouTube address when I know it.

Deleted double post.

Be careful what you post in the public domain.

A while back, I posted a clip of the Red Bull Air Race in Perth as a demo of aerial image relay via an Agus35 style device.

Now, clicking on the link yields a big red sign which alleges copyright infringement by myself. There is no means to publicly plead to the contrary and realistically would most likely clog Youtube into oblivion if such got started.

I posted into the clip description text, an explanation and expression of regret for inconvenience to people who follow links from here and other forums to look at the clips.

However, the explanation does not get to first base as the clip is excluded from direct linkage and the clip info can not be accessed.

I published a large diatribe in a centre section in this post but on reflection it served my need to vent my spleen but did little to inform so I have edited it out.

As you might guess, I am a little bit vexed. As a film-maker and writer, I am more sensitive than many punters as to the desirablity of respecting the original work of others.

The lesson I guess is. Don't point your camera at any public event as some corporate entity can claim dibs on your footage and turn you into a cheating fiend with the click of a mouse button.

To remove the red letter announcement from YouTube that I am an alleged copyright infringer, I have deleted all clips and am closing the account, so none of my youTube links I have posted in this forum remain working.

Here are two new links for AGUS35 and LETUS35 origination to replace those lost when I closed my YouTube account.


The Eleventh Soldier. - http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=572028460

This clip was shot entirely with a home made AGUS35 device on a Sony HVE-Z1P.


b-movie heroes. - http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=570589631

This clip was shot direct-to-camera on Sony HVR-Z1P for the fixed high-viewpoint master wide,

direct-to-camera on a Canon XL1 for the fixed body level wide,

on a LETUS35 flip for XL on a Canon XL2 for the roving and close-ups

and on a home made AGUS35 device on a Sony HDR-FX1 for the point-of-view control booth with the blue microphone in shot at the head of the clip.

The resolution on Brightcove downloads appears better than on YouTube.

For casual interest and to bring Agus Casse' original thread back up :-,

I have also done a short test of an Agus35 during other tests on a repaired CP16R Super16 gated film camera via the camera's 10-150 Angenieux lens and a Century +4 achromatic dioptre. The lens setback was not enough to use the +7.

A collateral benefit is being able to use a wider path through the prisms and thus a wider image off the groundglass at closer to 27mm and thus sneak a bit more resolution.

The 10-150 is NOT a Super16 lens but at about 7/8th zoomed-in it is.

The image outdoors looks a little oily compared to direct-to-viewfinder screen images with the same Nikon lenses.

I now have to how work out how to get good screen grabs.

Insane? - Probably.

Regarding the AGUS35-onto-16mm-film test, I received a message back from the telecine place to advise me the film test was "all good". Does that also mean the AGUS35 footage?????????

Now I "am" looking forward to receiving the film and the telecine dub. The downside is I had to have it telecined to MiniDV so there is a resolution loss in SD. Still I can look at my pieces of film on a microfiche reader to see just how sharp it is.

At the following YouTube address is the full version of the truncated motion clip previously posted at www.dvinfo.net/media/hart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxfjt0Y-EXk

This clip was shot with an early non-flip version of AGUS35 I called the Australian plumbers version because of it being built of sewer pipe and pipe caps.

The relay lens was made with the optics from an unbranded 50mm 2" telescope eyepiece for Tasco scopes. The packaging bore the product ID of SW5042. It comprised an achromatic doublet and a biconvex element. Used in reversed orientation, the biconvex element behaved as a condenser.

It was a powerful but difficult lens system to set up. The front of lens to groundglass distance was only 12mm - 18mm which enabled a very close couple to the video-camera. This was convenient for handholding but as a non-flip system, handheld framing and focus was very difficult.

I moved on to building an erecting or flip version using prisms and abandoned the telescope eyepiece optics for the less powerful 7+ achromatic dioptre which was set back from the groundglass far enough to allow the prism pair to be added between the dioptre and groundglass. No condenser was used in the prism version.

The distance from front of video-camera lens to this lens group was critical. Too close or too far and barrel or pincushion distortions became eveident.

The groundglass disk was a clear CD-R spacer, not glass. The initial groundglass texture on this disk was pressed into the plastic with 600 grade silicon carbide wet and dry abrasive paper and a generator bearing for a pressure roller.

The disk was later refinished with the more common method of aluminium oxide abrasive water slurry.

The clip was initially assembled and titled in Premiere6. The image flip was redone in Adobe After Effects and the filmlook methods published here at dvinfo were also applied.

I had to do a shutter timing test with a CP16RA film camera converted to Super16 so also stuck the AGUS35 on front with gaffa tape and shot a short test of this as well.

The framing is a little bit wide as I do not have safe area markers on the film camera for Super16., so I picked up the edges of the prism path on the lens test itself. I framed wide on the test chart to show the edge of the disk and compare aerial image to groundglass image in the same shot.

I forgot to fit the 85 correction filter so the image is a bit blue.

http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=712988243&channel=570698206

Another oldie.

This clip was shot on my first AGUS35, a non-flip version close-coupled to a Sony DSR PD150 PAL videocamera. TheSLR lens was a f3.5 55mm Micronikkor.

The adaptor used the reversed SW5042 telescope eyepiece lens set and groundglass made of plastic CD-R spacer, a sheet of 600 grit wet and dry silicon carbide paper and a generator bearing on a stick rolling back and forth across the paper on the plastic disk for about 40 minutes.

It yielded lousy resolution of 350 lines, lousy contrast. An initially dreadful thing to set up and try to use, I despaired of ever getting the it right and justifying my thus far wasted time.

Things slowly improved in increments from there. Some massage had to be done on the clip, like flip the image and mask off the vignette on the right hand side.

The clip is of Kim Bettenay singing his song "The Sock On Her Front Door", which features on his CD album "Strange Days".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBvAmbxMCA0

Given that I have let the innards of a Letus35 see the light of day it is probably fair that I should let people have a look at what I have been cobbling together.

Apologies to Agus Casse. I have not kept it as simple as it could have been but I did try.

With the exception of the prism block itself and its relativity to the groundglass outer rim, construction errors of up to 5mm in some places can still be tolerated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnweOEEqlRY

Is there a wrong way to mount a vibrating motor? I've made a mount from a plastic card for a Nikon F3 Type D. Because there wasnt enough room to mount the motor vertically, I attached it horizontally to the base of the focus screen. Looking through the LCD I can't see an appreciable difference in the grain fuzziness unlike a rotating ground glass.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/84946364@N00/458075232/

And are these supposed to be loud? Thanks for reading ...

Update: Used the Type D's tab as an anchor for the motor to mount vertically. But I still don't see the effect. Maybe the tube is absorbing too much of the vibration? Wish there was more space in this tube.

Your arrangement can not work for the following reasons.

The vibrator motor movement is parallel to the lens centre axis.

A groundglass movement must be at 90dgrees across the centre axis to deresolve groundglass texture (grain).

The cut down plastic card does not appear to allow movement at 90degrees across the centre axis only parallel along it.

The cut down plastic card is a hard acoustically live plastic and the air space inside the tube will help amplify the sound much as a speaker cone and air enclosure does so what you actually have is a fairly efficient acoustic driver.

Assuming that everything is changed to move in the correct direction, what may also be against your combination of components is the relatively heavy mass of the focus screen versus the eccentric mass within the small motor.

The movement may not be enough to disappear the groundglass texture completely.

To allow movement across the centre axis but support the groundglass on the focal plane in a self-centering rest position, Quyen Le uses three pillars with flexible attachment points for his Letus35.

The system uses no control linkages to form the orbital excursion path which in its normal orientation becomes elliptoid, not truly circular.

The cinedof movement employs four more-or-less quarter-elliptical spring/control linkages to support a groundglass screen in a controlled movement across the lens centre axis.

The system uses the four linkages to provide a self-centering support for the groundglass and are intended to form the excursion path into a circular orbital motion.

Thanks Bob! I'm still trying to digest it. But I think I understand that the motor has to be laid on the same plane as the focus screen (vertical in my case) and center. The idea being to move the small grains in the screen in small vertical circles like when someone pans sand through a sieve (only a sieve is used horizontal). In this case, the holder shouldn't be too rigid or well attached to the tube body to allow movement. This is going to be a challenge.

My next hare brained attempt ...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/84946364@N00/458381455/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/84946364@N00/458381459/

I recently exchanged messages with a video enthusiast at Youtube who linked me to a pic of his own home-made adaptor, an affair which used a frosted CD-R and appeared to constructed of pillar bolts and plywood panels.

It has to be the meanest looking machine that ever drew breath. But before one judged harshly, the foundation of the design included ability for a spring loaded, three-axis backfocus adjustment, in general the principle I followed.

Agus Casse's vision of 35mm adaptors for the masses lives on and people have a lot of fun doing it purely and simply.

Here's some web addresses to some dated and useless information.


http://putstuff.putfile.com/87145/6797357

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87147/8689395

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87148/6909524

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87149/9241206

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87151/8192538

Thanks for these, Bob.

Two of the files seem to be the same, however. The first one
http://putstuff.putfile.com/87145/6797357

and the 4th:
http://putstuff.putfile.com/87149/9241206

are both "AGU35APVNEMOTORMOUNT.pdf"

Here's some web addresses to some dated and useless information.


http://putstuff.putfile.com/87145/6797357

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87147/8689395

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87148/6909524

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87149/9241206

http://putstuff.putfile.com/87151/8192538

There seems to be a fashionable phrase around "my bad". I've oft times marched to the beat of my own drum so it becomes "my incompetence". Either way, apologies for duplicating the file - too much haste, will try to find the missing one.

About time to kick the original thread back upstairs where it belongs.

I went along to the product demonstation at Curtin Univeristy hosted by Tino Liberatore (not Tony as previously incorrectly mentioned by me) from P+S Technik and Steve Rice, local film maker.

Screened in the cinema for the session at FTI in Fremantle, was a demo clip for the JVC GY-HD100/Mini35 combination, shot by Steve the previous weekend.

I went along to the shoot at "The Rock" nightclub in Northbridge, Perth to take some shadow of the shoot.

I used a Sony HVR-Z1P with AGUS35 on front. It is not a head-to-head test against the MINI35 as I used an entirely different lens set and had to stay out of the way of the main camera.

Here it is posted for interest of builders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu46tmYmRY0

Optics used were :-

Nikon f1.4 85mm
Nikon f4 12mm - 24mm zoom
Peleng f3.5 8mm fisheye

Zoom movement in the early portion of the clip was compositional adjustment in the relay stage by camcorder zoom, not the Nikon 12mm- 24mm.

The Youtube clip is a bit more gloomy than the actual footage. One day I'll learn to get the dark art of Youtube posting right.

Rob, I've been reading hundreds of posts and dozens of threads, but I can't seem to find a complete guide on doing a 35mm Adapter. I am willing to do one myself, but can't get to decide what kind of configuration would be the best.
On your opinion, will a rotating or a vibrating GG will give best results? What kind of GG is the best? I will be using a Sony Pd150. Do you think I will need an achromat?
I don't want to bother. If there's a comprised guide on the best configuration of a 35 mm adapter, that would do for me.
Thank you in advance!

I'll answer for Rob, if he doesn't get to you. You will need an achromat. I have the VX2000, and it needs one.

Redrockmicro.com has a full set of plans for a spinning adapter. You can modify from there. I built my first adapter using the plans as a guide.

I also now have the Letus35a, which is as close as you can get to a self built, while having someone else do it. It has both a condenser and an achromat, works great with the Vx2000, my FX1, and HV20, the latter two maybe requiring, for optimum performance a little stronger achromat, or an extension tube to allow zooming.

Thanks Chris.

Redrock's published design and the groundglass they supply is probably the best way to go from scratch otherwise there's a lot of wasted time and effort just getting the GG right.

My generic formula for the PD150 and a 24mm wide image off the groundglass.

Nikon lens mount >> (46.5mm to rear face of groundglass) >> groundglass (with aluminium oxide 5 micron finish) >> (approx. 5" or 125mm distance) >> Century Optics 7+ achromatic dioptre >> PD150.

For a closer couple between camera and groundglass you can substitute a stronger dioptre but good ones are hard to find. You need at least 44mm exit pupil on the dioptre or it will vignette. The alternative is to use a 58mm to 72mm step-up ring to fit 72mm diam dioptres made for the Brevis and SGPro. .

My chosen parts are determined by my also fitting a prism pair between the GG and dioptre which requires this distance along the optical axis.

Jim Lafferty also published a design and how-to instruction set on his website but I don't know if it still up. Both the Redrock and his design used electroncs project boxes.

Ok, so the GG of Redrock will do great. That's good. Now, Bob, what's that "with aluminium oxide 5 micron finish". Is that an another thing I have to add? I heard the GG Redrock gives is just a CD-R. Is it? 'cause I would save the money and buy it from Frys.

"My chosen parts are determined by my also fitting a prism pair between the GG and dioptre which requires this distance along the optical axis."
Is this for flipping the image?
Also... the Century Optics Achromats seem too expensive for my budget. do you think any of theese may do the work? Or do you know of any other solution?
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/category/achromats_1.html

And I couldn't get the "electroncs project boxes" thing. Is that a brand?
Thanks!

I had a quick look only.



http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3719.html

Very likely to vignette as the exit pupil is smaller than 44mm.


http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3841.html

Very likely to be okay, depending on condition, but may not get you close enough to the groundglass on max zoom to get inside hotspot.


http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3861.html

Might be okay but you would have to experiment with how close or far from the camcorder lens you put it to eliminate the edge distortion. Take care not to allow it to make contact with your PD150 lens otherwise the PD150 lens may be permanently damaged by scratching.

All will likely require an appliance which is 4" or longer from GG to camcorder.

Redrock's disk is already a groundglass and likely to be close to AO5 grade finish. It should require no furthur work. I believe it may be acrylic not glass, so be careful not to scratch it or put fingerprints on it. Protect that groundglass surface like gold.

If it gets dust on it, unless you have a lens brush or canned air, leave the dust there as any polish marks will show as a flicker. The dust will disappear when the disk spins or fly off. Don't go near the groundlgass surrface with a lens pen. Email Redrock to find out for sure.

CD-Rs with a home-made finish are very hard to get an even finish around the entire disk and will likely flicker with a variable density artifact. Easier to buy in the pre-made part.

The newer ones are also of a very durable plastic and harder to get a good surface finish on as they are formulated to resist scratching.

The prism pair is for image flip. The necessary size of the prisms means you need about 5" of optical centre axis. the prisms fold the optical centre axis back on itself, thus shortening the appliance length.

If the path is too short, you can't get the camcorder close enough to the GG, so a 7+ power dioptre is about as strong as you can go for a flip version for the PD150.

A project box is a plastic or aluminium box with a lid which fastens on with four or more small screws. Hobbyists build electronic kits like pre-amplifiers or metal detectors inside of them. Electrical junction boxes are another similar product. I don't know who retails electronic kits in your country.

Hi all! This is my first post and i've been a reader for a few months now so i'm happy to finaly be part of this community! As a francophone from Montréal, please excuse my grammar!

I want to show off my 35mm project I made thanks to you guys. I got the concept out of the mediachance website and all the valuable technical knowledge from all from you.

It is made from 1/4 inch MDF (wood). Made 3 pannels, one for the lens, one for the cd to spin and one for the macro, then I made a box with the rest! Since my mic was hidden by the box, I bought a mic and put in on the box so I have no interference from the mecanism inside the box!

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN3yFyse_GA&mode=related&search=

If it dosent work, check out Daref93, I have 2 videos posted! I posted some pics but dont know where they ended up?!?!

Thanks to you all for making this project worth while! I am so happy with the results! Have a nice day and wish you success in your project!

Jonathan

You have every reason to be well pleased with your efforts.

Unless you created your fades with closing the aperture on your front lens, there is some observable pass-through of aerial image during the fades.

You can observe this on the very last few frames of the last fade when the window frame becomes sharp.

This however would also happen if you close the iris for a fade as the depth-of-field would increase at the same time so it may not be pass-through at all - a bit hard to judge on YouTube resolution.

It looks good and that is all that counts.

You have achieved an even finish. I did not detect flicker so the coarse finish and dressing of the disk with hand-lotion seems to have worked well.

Don't alter the adaptor you now have if you seek to improve it. Instead, make a new one so that you can continue to enjoy what you already have.

Hello Bob!

Sanding down the CD to 320 grit, the hand lotion...it did a wonder to my machine. My clip was edited with Premier Pro so all the transitions was from there, color correction was from Magic Bullet in After Effects. Funy you observed this, I never saw it and you are right, it tends to go in focus! I shot this with a handycam, a DCR-HC8! So my next adapter will be for a DVX! (In my dreams!) Thanks for the comments, and thanks too all of you guys who made it possible!

Jonathan



You have every reason to be well pleased with your efforts.

Unless you created your fades with closing the aperture on your front lens, there is some observable pass-through of aerial image during the fades.

You can observe this on the very last few frames of the last fade when the window frame becomes sharp.

This however would also happen if you close the iris for a fade as the depth-of-field would increase at the same time so it may not be pass-through at all - a bit hard to judge on YouTube resolution.

It looks good and that is all that counts.

You have achieved an even finish. I did not detect flicker so the coarse finish and dressing of the disk with hand-lotion seems to have worked well.

Don't alter the adaptor you now have if you seek to improve it. Instead, make a new one so that you can continue to enjoy what you already have.

Do to the good computer now longer being the good computer, I shall be quiet and muted for a while as I have had to revert to the dial-up mule train on an even older one.

Downloads and uploads of clips and long techie messages is out of the question for the time being until the finances permit repair or replacement and time is available to re-install everything. Other priorities compete so it will be a while.

Regards to all.

Here's a link to a prelim version of a clip shot to demo the JVC GY HD100/MINI35 combination at product days at Curtin Uni and FTI Fremantle. The audio is a bit gappy in the last half and this posted version should not be held representative of the final version of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aabJj2EED38

I shot shadow footage of the shoot on the Sony Z!P/AGUS35 which can be found below, a link I have posted previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu46tmYmRY0

I think I may have a little work to do on the AGUS35 yet and my need to wear my close-up glasses next time I want to look at the LCD viewfinder is well demonstrated in my shadow clip.

Here's a link to a low-light test I did whilst also location testing for a project. The lenses used were the Sigma for Nikon f1.8 20mm and the legendary Nikon f1.4 28mm, which is regarded by some as a "noct" lens. It was a loaner. They are pretty heavy costwise.

The brightcove recode seems to have dropped the 16:9 aspect ratio so I will have to re-do it sometime.

http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155181078

If you like easy listening all acoustic music of the Neil Young genre, here's a link to a clip just finished and posted to YouTube.


Techspec :

2 x Sony HVR-Z1P direct-to-camera.
2 x sony HVR-Z1P plus AGUS35.

One AGUS35 was the Century Optics 4+ long setback arrangement.
The other was the Century Optics 7+ close-coupled arrangement.

There was a path alignment problem with the long setback version which will be evident with the f2.8 14mm wide shots. It shows in the YouTube post which is in effect an underscan image. It does not show in the normal TV safe area.


FOOTNOTE: Clip has been taken down from YouTube by the user. I'll post new URL when it is restored.

FOOTNOTE TO FOOTNOTE: The clip has been uploaded to here :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOPz08uLcI

Lenses used were Nikon f1.4 85mm, Nikon f1.2 55mm, Sigma for Nikon f2.8 14mm.

Looks like the clip has been taken down again for furthur polishing. I think there has been a couple of colour grades done on it since it first went up.

The Youtube user name for search is "johngeopix" It will be on the bottom of the list of clips. Have a look at the Wise Family with Andy Irvine music clip if you like old country music. It is not groundglass work but worth a listen regardless.

The clip is back up again at the same address

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOPz08uLcI

Sorry for the confusions.

At this address is a short behind the scenes of a short movie, "TEARS IN THE RAIN", in production with the JVC GY HD100/Mini35, Skater Dolly, filmed on Sony HVR Z1P with Agus35.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBjmXkwec8

I just spent the better part of today filming some stocks of the Red Bull Air Race - can't publish as IMG Entertainment will shut the clip down. They have a lot invested in bringing this event to the world so it is understandable if a little frustrating.

Instead of removing the GG I left it in place, too lazy to set up the backfocus and everything again. I mainly wanted the support events for local pilots involved. This version of the device is the 4+ achromatic dioptre long setback setup.

I also kept the GG in because with the 4+ there would have been a distinct vignette in aerial image.

Here's the conundrum. The groundglass images despite the f6.3 narrow end of the Sigma 50mm-500mm look better and sharper than aerial image. Because verything bent and warped through trying to follow very agile aircraft, I picked up the bottom corner of the disk when things shifted.

If the Red Bull Air Race comes your way next year, take a look.

Agus.


If you are still out there somewhere, could you email me through dvinvo.

Do you have access to webcam for speaking to a forum about your first groundglass machine and how you made it? Would you want to talk about this?


Regards.

Bob Hart.

For those with an interest, here is a link to a clip shot on the Agus35 with a Sigma f4-f63 50mm-500mm zoom lens of a recent aerobatic display. An aperture of f6.3 is in the red zone for most groundglass imaging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gnLzWVxdnI

There are a few things wrong with the image, firstly the prism block got dusted and there are some marks in the image, secondly, the rods and bridgeplate arrangement I have fell in the vehicle and disrupted the Agus35 so the bottom left corner of the groundglass is also in the image as well as the edge falloff from the prism path on the left.

Although the edge of the disk, complete with fingerprints is in the frame and the disk running only at about 1500 rpm, there is very little flicker, which is one saving grace of large diameter disk adaptors which will tolerate higher shutter speeds.

Once IMG Entertainment get wind of this, they will probably block the clip so it may not be up for long.

Here is a link to a later clip of behind the scenes of "Tears In The Rain", a short feature which has just wrapped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KZayueFxcQ

The footage is of the second last day of the shoot, some well rehearsed enactment of gratuitous violence.

The production camera is a JVC GY-100 wearing a P+S Technik Mini35-400.

The behind-the-scenes footage was shot with a Sony HVRZ1P, some with AGUS35 with Nikon 35mm, some direct-to-camera.

I hope this is the proper place for me to post this question. I've recently started to learn more about enhancing the quality of my video and I decided to purchase this lens for my GL2:

http://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1462&IID=855

which will allow me to natively film in 16:9. I've been wanting to build a 35mm/DOF adapter and my question is as follows:

Is it possible to build such an adapter and use this lens at the same time? More importantly, does it even make sense to use this lens in conjunction with a 35 mm adapter?

I ultimately want to be able to both use the features of a DOF adapter AND film natively in 16:9. I guess I'm not experienced enough in this area to know if such a concoction is viable or logical.

Diverting the subject probably is not good form but if it is limited to one question and one reply it should not hurt.

The wranglers will intervene if it becomes a problem. If you want to get into a more lengthy discourse of several posts then maybe it should be raised as a new topic.

Short answer to your question, the 16:9 adaptor will work with some caveats. I have tested with a PD150 and home made AGUS35 adaptor. The PD150 is optically very similar to the GL2. I think the same offset between CCD centre and optical centre exists.

The adaptor has to go on front of the still-camera lens which is attached to the 35mm adaptor.

The SLR must be one on which the front of the lens barrel does not rotate when being focussed because the 16:9 adaptor will turn with it.

A custom adaptor mount has to be made for each prime lens whcih has a different size filter thread diameter.

There were two styles to the 16:9 adaptor, one with custom PD150 bayonet mount, another with 58mm filter thread mount. Threaded mount is easier with only simple step-up rings required, however these must be parallel face type otherwise the 16:9 is set too far forward of the lens it fits to and the optical performance will go off.

The image area off the groundglass has to be about 22mm to 24mm wide, no larger.

It will work for the basic set of primes, 28mm, 50mm and 85mm with a little bit of vignette on the 28mm. These represent the zoom range for which the 16:9 adaptor was designed except for the wide end.

The sharpness starts to go off with the 85mm and the 135mm whilst it will work is unacceptably soft. There is a softer return on ther other lenses which you should expect when adding more glass and stretching the image.

There is an artifact introduced to out-of-focus areas as you also observe with film anamorphic, soft foreground is stretched one way, soft background is stretched in another.

Have a look at this image :-

http://www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus35%20in16.9+some%20filmlook.JPG

which is two grabs which were colour corrected by the process published here at dvinfo. - also

http://www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/aguscne1.JPG

done with a Proskar anamorphic projection lens for 16mm film - vignettes on wider than 50mm.

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart

is an undisciplined and random collection of images which go right back to my own first simple experiments with sanded microscope slides, pringles cans and rolled up socks jammed in the ends to hold the lenses and the camera together.

I abandoned this approach as it denied me too many lens choices.

If you still want to go this route there are two more files for you to look at :-

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus3516.pdf

and

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus3516b.pdf.

Both illustrate a way of building the PD150 adaptor for the Century Optics 16:9 for the Micro-Nikkor lens.

Time to slide this historical icon of a thread back to the top of the heap and also to advise those who might vaguely recall, I shot some shadow footage of a feature project, The Eleventh Soldier and posted a clip on Brightcove in about January last year.

The trailer for The Eleventh Soldier has been updated and can be found at this address :-

http://www.cinemascorestudios.com/theeleventhsoldier/home.htm

The shadow footage can be seen at this address :-

http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=572028460

or at Youtube :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Kfupy53s0

The home-made AGUS35 I built some time back, finally got its first serious gig on Wednesday on a local shoot of a small feature. It was third camera for an action scene.

It also showed its true contrary form and a hasty jerry-rig of gaffer tape, a thick pine stick harvested from the forest floor and part of the tripod mount was needed to deal with slump in the case which was causing a top edge of the prism path to vignette.

Maybe now I'll pull my finger out and rebuild the case as one piece instead of all the cuts and joins it now has due to trimming and rebuilding over time and experimentation

The main cam is a JVC GY-HD100/P+S Technik Mini35 combination. There was a second HD100 as back-up shooting direct-to-camera. There was also a pyro-guy who set things in the ground to explode and throw up debris.

An enjoyable day for all.

A Kinoptik 9.8mm f1.8 also got its first use here on the Mini35 for the same project. The lens is actually a rebarrelled and geared version by Century Optics, already fitted with a PL Mount.

As was the caution by a competent DoP here, this lens does have corner brightness falloff and requires careful lighting to light evenly. With that attended to, it works well in a confined space like a small office.

For those with an interest in things both groundglass and aviation, this address leads to a rough and ready assembly of some footage shot this weekend at Serpentine in Western Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-FrlHKsurs

The very first aircraft and last two aircraft were shot using the Mini35. All other footage was via the Agus35. The lens was a Sigma 50mm- 500mm f4 - f6.3 zoom with an optical doubler. Due to the possibility of clash of internal optics, the Sigma lens becomes locked into 200mm - 1000mm range when the doubler is fitted.

The available aperture range becomes tightened to the ballpark of f5.6 -f8, which is hostile territory for groundglass work against light bright overcast which prevailed on the day.

Artifacts were observable with both groundglass systems however did not impact adversely on the images. The Mini35 is observably sharper than my own device.

Except for the ability to reach furthur than the lens-in-camera Sony Z1 camera type used, there is limited amenity in using such a long lens except perhaps to beat the tub and say it can be done. Following a dynamic subject with 1000mm offers some challenges.

Its amazing, how come over the past 5 years, this proyect have grow up that much, i recently read an article ina magazine and found out that there are many companies now making new adapters from what at the beginning just a proyect.

Thanks Bob, to still keep this thread growing, i would love to come back to the project again, with a new model, lets see whats happens this year.

Agus.


Long time no see. Welcome back. Having you walk this thread is a bit like Francis Ford Coppola posting on Zoetrope's "The Virtual Studio" website.

My guess is that the days of groundglass image relay as a professional level production tool are probably numbered.

It's been an interesting ride. I'll bet you never imagined just how far people would pick up and go with what you started off.

The new Nikon and Canon digital stills cameras have become video capable. They have much room to improve but it will come. The RED and Kinor 4K fullframe sensor motion video cameras and others which come along wait for more capable computers and storage able to handle 4K images so for low-budget film makers, there is time for the groundglass relay adaptor yet.

You may have recalled my previous posts on a local indie, then worktitled "The Cage", created on the JVC-GY-HD100 camera system.

The DVD version has found a home on Netflix as "Death Bet".

The feature was shot direct-to-camera. Some of the "behind-the-scenes" footage was shot
on a Sony HVR-Z1P with an early version home-made AGUS35 35mm adaptor.

How much of the adaptor footage was used in the featurette if any I don't know.

The revised trailer can be seen on YouTube at this web address :-

YouTube - Death Bet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4NdNofKWsg)

I just want to post this clip which I made using a DIY spinning adapter as a sort of tribute to the DIY spirit started by this thread which inspired me to start making mine in 2004.

ALLAN on Vimeo

Shot with JVC HD200 with 2 lenses, a 50 and 80-200.

Originally intended only as an audition reel, this clip was selected to represent my province for the first time in a Film Festival in the capital of my country last week, Cinema Rehiyon 2010.

Ted.


A fitting tribute.

Has the medium format adaptor gone back into the back storeroom with all the old plate camera bits and pieces for the grandchildren to discover one day or do you still use it?

Hi Bob!

I have finally put together a Camera museum, on our 2nd floor, since schools often come for a visit, I got tired of setting the old cameras out and putting them away after the tour,
I have on display and cataloged different cameras that our family have used, the oldest which is a hundred year old korona from manchester optical and some glass plate negatives I managed to rescue.

I have a glass case reserved for the MID FORMAT adapter prototype that I made in 2004, I think it deserves a place in our history that once upon a time such devices were contrived to help filmmaker achieve the DOF control not possible with the prosumer lever cameras of the time.

Having used the canon 7d on several high paying high profile projects recently, I think the phase of the adapter is coming to an end. It deserves its own glass showcase.

Ted

A bit of a venture in history back I dug up off an old drive. Who back then would have thought that 35mm adaptors would have become feather dusters so soon.

DEATHBET INF BTS.wmv - YouTube

I shot this short assembly of behind-the-scenes shots of a local indie low-budget project on a home made flip 35mm adaptor I called the AGUS35APVE. It was mounted onto a Sony HVR-Z1P camera with 12mm - 24mm Nikon, and 50mm and 85mm Nikon primes. For my own curiosity, I desaturated and roughly graded the image for the sort of cold hard look I thought would fit the fight scenes.

The fiklm-makers kept the look of the JVC GY-HD101 camera they shot the project on.

For a bit of a reminisce to history back - how few years it has been. The groundglass adaptors discussed on this forum established a general consumer discontent with 1/3" sensors, then the digital cinema cameras had their genesis here on dvinfo and gave the big players that final message that developmental holdback was not going to cut it anymore.

Anyway, here's some student clips shot on the original Sony DSR PD150 and an AGUS35 homemade 35mm groundglass adaptor in 2005.

SCENE EXERCISE. HOME AND AWAY W.A.. - YouTube

SCENE EXERCISE. COFFEE SHOP. - YouTube

"ROODOG AND THE PULL OF THE MOON". SCENE DEMO. PACSCREENWORKSHOP - YouTube


All the best to everyone for the rest of the New Year.