The difference is the DVX does not have macro lens like the Sony does the DVX's minium focus distance is like 4ft.

Where as the Sony TRV can focus alot closer.

Did ever find out what camera that ground glass came from? I'm still interested and would like to give the static way a chance first. Thanks, Corey

I dont think that the frosted cd at high speed produces grain, thats not true, but what you get is lower light perception, and thats even considering thatt we are not yet flipping the image yet.


Hey Daniel,... your adapter rocks !!!!! excellent video and optics !! you got there some treasure.

Got some footage capped with my new mini50 adapter on my Sony VX2000. Check out "Mini50 on VX2k" in the tests section here:
www.par-t-com.net/media.html

I'm pretty sure the distortion is gone, and I'm very happy with the image, hopefully the random shots of my friends playing video games will show enough to prove it. ;)

Thanks again everyone on this crazy-huge thread!

Spencer Houck

Spencer. Is there any chance of getting a frame grab from your Mini50 as a .jpg file up somewhere, maybe even here. Chris has been putting my tests up here so would probably be no problem if you request putting it in with my lot.

Landline speed here is as slow as 752 bytes per second so meaningful Quicktime just is not an option.

I'd like to see if the Samigon is good into the corners as my options are not so good.

I am in the process of redesigning my adapter. I posted a couple of questions regarding the fresnel len. I didnt get any response so I'll try posting the question again.

1. Is it always neccessary to use the fresnel in the design of the adapter?

2.From the description given by Devin and Spencer regarding their design, am I to understand that the fresnel lens is the same lens used by a typical pocket magnifier. Wouldnt that be the same lens as a magnifying glass?

Thanks for your help
Mike Perkin

Bob, Spencer and I worked together on both adapters so maybe I can shed some light on the Samigon adapter. First of all, let me post 2 pictures of our adapters:

- the first model for my GL1 http://www.par-t-com.net/mini50_wide.JPG
- the second model for Spence's VX2k http://www.par-t-com.net/mini50/wide_side.jpg

If you watch the test below the one that Spencer just posted on our media page http://www.par-t-com.net/media.html entitled "Completed Mini50 (w/ ground glass)" you'll see that there's distortion in the corners due to the samigon +10 macro. Spencer's new test has no distortion using the same filter. How? The boxes vary in size. Since mine is a bit longer you must move more towards the telephoto end (zoom in) and therefore distortion is introduced. Since Spencer's box is smaller, and the image is projected no further than 1/2" away from the lens, little zooming is necessary. I returned my Samigon and ordered a +10 macro that had glass covering the whole 58mm diameter, not just 40mm or however much the Samigon does. Hopefully this will correct the distortion on my end. +10 adapters generally do introduce distortion, it's just a matter of getting around it. So, if you're interested in the Samigon, build a shallower box. I think overall it's a better image when all the optics are as close as possible, but then you run the risk of not having enough room to adjust everything. I'll keep you posted on which macro I end up using.

hi there,

i just bought a pack of 25 CDs produced by (unknown for me, never saw it before) company named MSONIC, from Taiwan.

on the top side of the disk is written:
48x
80min/700Mb
CD-R
Silver-Silver
price (at least in poland for 25pcs approx 4$)

and here is GOOD PART!

there are TWO frosted disk in this pack. One on the top, and one at the bottom. for me they are identical to MAxell ones. (i have one maxell's)
i sent to taylor my pics of it. i beleive the link will follow soon.
i bought it in "Geant" hypermarket (the french supermarket chain common in Poland, where i live).

maybe this will helps someone.

Here the link to the frosted CD's and pkging.

www.moorefilms.com/frosted.htm

Spencer, Awesome job. Footage looks great!!!!
Three things:

1. Are you getting pulsing when you rack forcus? Meaning is there a slight image shift....when going between 2 different focal planes.

2. Really want to see some exterior day shots.


3. What is the diameter of your and Devins lens. As the DVX is 72mm and I might have problems getting this rig to be workable.

Thanks, and to answer:
1. Yeah, there is some "breathing"(i think thats what it's called) when shifting focus, things in different planes grow or shrink, but thats due to it being a still photo lens not meant for racking while recording. Real 35 mm film lenses have complex systems to fix that.

2. We'll try to shoot some exteriors with good light, may take a bit, seeing as it "feels like" -1°F outside.

3. Devin's GL1, and my VX2000 both have 58mm threads.

Spencer Houck

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Perkin :
2.From the description given by Devin and Spencer regarding their design, am I to understand that the fresnel lens is the same lens used by a typical pocket magnifier. Wouldnt that be the same lens as a magnifying glass?
>>>

I was about to say no, but stopped myself. From my (limited) understanding of optics, fresnel lenses are designed to spread out light. Upon further thought, that's what a convex lense seems to do, too.

The advantage of a fresnel lens (and why they were first made) is that they weight less and are much thinner than a regular lens.

Anyone experiment with a regular magnifying glass? I'll see if I can dig one up today.

Ryan

Latest image from Bob Hart:

http://www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/testpnew0+5.JPG

Bob says: Here's another .jpg for the album. I printed another cleaner copy of the
test pattern on photo paper for crisper lines and ran the comparative tst
again. The result is intriguing and confounding at the same time.


It is framed smaller than a test pattern would be therefore the resolution
must in theory at least be lower. But it seems to be up there at around 600
lines horizontal. The Agus image which is the one beneath also seems to have
less stepladdering on diagonal lines than the image direct into the PD150.
It seems the softer image rules. Setting the sharpness on the PD150 might
achieve the same result. The tests are far from scientific as the shots are
in low light and the camera and test pattern not mounted to a common frame."

I'm almost done building mine and am ready to buy a new lens for this. The one I've been using really sucks. Please can anyone one suggest a decent lens to look at for around $200.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Well if you buy used you wont' have to spend anywhere near $200.

I would go with a Nikon len, 1.2 0r 1.4 as fast as you can get.

I really want to jump into this... but I think i'm going to wait until someone has some schematics and a solid design. Great job guys! Spencer your footage really looks promising. Could you maybe post some pictures of the Agus50 for the GL1? I have a GL2 and I'm just wondering how to go about making one if I come across some money soon. Thanks! great job!

-Kay

Curt, we posted pics earlier in the thread. However, Paul Doss was nice enough to copy that post and pics over to his webspace. Visit http://www.thecountrybulletin.com/new_page_14.htm.

Hey i was reading a lot on this subject. I have been navigating through all of the 48 pages and i have noticed Daniel's posts where he talked about the gg from an old Zenit camera. I also noticed some one mentioning the soundless brushless vibrating motor. Since i know nothing about motors and not much at all about ground plates i am wondering if anyone knows how to make the "brushless soundless motor" work say with an old GG from the Zenit camera. Guys i own one of those cams they are 70s model of a Zenit B! ( i bet after this post you won't be able to find it on ebay ha). From Daniel's pictures of his model the adaptor is incredibly small and sturdy looking. I am not really that technical, anyone want to contribute some ideas?

here is another test video of mine

www.metafilms.net/upload_files/agus35.avi about 1.3mb

and guess my setup

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Hart : Spencer. Is there any chance of getting a frame grab from your Mini50 as a .jpg file up somewhere, maybe even here. Chris has been putting my tests up here so would probably be no problem if you request putting it in with my lot.

Landline speed here is as slow as 752 bytes per second so meaningful Quicktime just is not an option.

I'd like to see if the Samigon is good into the corners as my options are not so good. -->>>

Hey Bob, sorry for taking so long for this.

Screen grabs from mini50 test on VX2000(in a relatively dark room):

www.par-t-com.net/mini50/grab1.jpg
www.par-t-com.net/mini50/grab2.jpg
www.par-t-com.net/mini50/grab3.jpg
www.par-t-com.net/mini50/grab4.jpg

These grabs are after I used Premiere Pro's color corrector, which introduced some grain to the pics, but I think you can get the picture. Notice that there is just a slight bit of vignette, but with a 16:9 crop in combonation with safe margins, it does what we want.

The test can be found here: www.par-t-com.net/media.html

Spencer Houck

Spencer. Thanks for taking the time and trouble of grabbing the frames and posting them. Looks like you have the corner problems solved. If you find a 58mm mount 10x with wider glass I'd be interested to know the details. Regards.

In my search for finding UK suppliers of optical parts I came across this great company, http://www.knightoptical.co.uk

Although they don't sell holographic diffusers, they do sell Acrylic focus screens which appear to have favourable properties for this kind of project, an extract from their web page reads...

"These Plastic Screens have still greater diffusion than ground glass types, allowing an image to be back-projected on a large screen without `hot spot’

They also sell a large range of various prisms and optical mirrors, although I can't seem to find Roof PentaPrisms on their list...?

Spencer... where did you find your Samigon +10 adapter... I just bought a century optics +7 which still can't zoom the black edges out of the frame (even with a widescreen cropped image.)

Also why do you use a frensel lens... what does this do for you?

The Samigon +10 was found at a local camera store called "Campus Camera" at Kent State in North Eastern, Ohio. Their phone number is (330) 678-1297 if you wish to get the same one. (I don't know how they deal with shipping of orders though) Devin, on the other hand, is trying to find if a +10 with a larger glass will reduce the distortion without having to bring his camera closer to the GG like I did. He ordered a +10 with full glass, no large black ring like mine has, on ebay a few days ago; they seem to be quite common for the 58mm thread.

People seem to be quite skeptical about the fresnel for some reason, I'm not quite sure who instated that, but I think it's a necessary step in the adapter. We've found that the distance that it is positioned away from the GG is not all that crucial, just go with what works. It helps to increase the overall brightness, or more evenness of brightness in the edges of the projection on the spinning CD, which allows you to have to zoom less in order to get passed vignetting.

And yes, it's a personal "credit card" magnifier that you can find just about anywhere, I got mine from Office Max for $1.99 or so.

Spencer Houck

every test i do with the fresnel steps down a notch of light....

can someone link me to a +7 or +10 macro lense on ebay? i dont know wat to search for

Danny,

On Ebay, try searching for "+10 macro filter" or...
Go to B & H Photo ( bhphotovideo.com ) and search for "NL10" for B+W +10 macro lenses of different diameters.
Search with NL1, NL2, and NL4 for +1, +2, and +4 power filters.

Isaiah

hey thanks. if i get a +1 +2 +4 macro filter set, could i stack them together to make a +7? and how do i know how many mm to choose? i have a gl1

Danny. Addition to note below. I did not remember you were using a GL1 and not a PD150 so comments below may be invalid.

Danny. If you look at some of the .jpg stuff I have posted here, most was shot with stack of 58mm Hoya lenses 1x + 2x + 4x. These are fairly commonly available through camera shops as a set of three in a little wallet.

For a larger than 35mm still camera frame you should be okay with a bit of darkening on the corners. For the smaller motion picture 35mm or 35mm widescreen gate you may not be able to zoom close enough to cleanly frame it.

In my posted images there are some rough and ready captioned images of test patterns for the Hoyas and a telescope eyepiece lens set. Image file "---- testpnew0+5.JPG ----" demonstrates with a testpattern, the Hoyas stacked through the AGUS35 with rotating groundglass in hostile lighting conditions layered under the image direct into the PD150.

Bob you are getting too much vigneting, are you zooming in ? you could try to close up more the GG to the dv camera to solve this.

Agus. Yes. The issue is when I zoom in closer, the focus collapses. Same goes for moving the cam closer. It seems the 10x lens as wide a diameter we can get inside the 58mm mount is what is needed for the PD150 version.

The telescope eyepiece frames a much smaller target and ceases to vignette when the image target is about 16mm diagonal across 4:3 frame corners. It will enable focus to hold on a widescreen frame 27mm across corners if the image plane is brought closer to the camera than my current adaptor allows (about 52mm from front of camera). This also does not have wide enough lenses but will zoom through to clearance about half the way through

I am currently trying to find connectors that I can attach to my adapter which alow me to 'plug' in my 50mm lens, and at the other end 'plug' in my GL2. Any ideas please?

Hey Spencer, you and I live very close to each other I'd imagine. I would be very, very interested in getting in contact with you about some things and ideas. It's suprising and refreshing all in one to find a local, AND knowledgable/good videographer around here.

I'll probably get an email out to you too, in case you see that first.

Also, I havn't been able to read through all of this thread yet.. but has anyone completed an adapter for the XL-1s? Would anyone be willing to make one to sell?

Hey everyone, I just got my +10 macro in, it should compleate my XL-1 adapter. I built it about 3 weeks ago base on a project box. I'm working on a system to attach it to the XL-1 then I'll post pics and footage.

Hey shout out to all the other Ohio guys I'm based out of Medina, let me know if a get together is planned.

Luke

Yes Kevin I am currently working on a Canon version, a design somewhat different that those being done right now-I'm surprised no one has shown something closer to what I'm developing-it seems obvious to me. I've just did a test last night that was stunning in optical quality-possibly far better what what's being show now. Because of the body design an Agus35 adapter fits like a hand in glove. I have to wait on a few more pieces but hope to be finished by another 10-12 days or so before I finish with this prototype. I am trying to develop one that would not cost thousands but maybe sub 1k. stay tuned...

I think we should definately get a lil ohio get together going and try out these 35 adapters.. or discuss, attempt new things/etc... I think it'd be fun if we all got together and made something.

Luke I'm especially interested in getting together sometime and trying out things for the XL.

Dino, please keep us updated.

Luke, you should fill out your location in your profile.

i just finished my "third generation" (1st - cake box 50psc; 2nd-cakeCDbox 25pcs;3rd-plywood type) agus 35, and still hace sound problems. i'm using original CD motor, which works very quiet when in horisontal position, but works loudly in vertical position. maybe plywood box produces also some resonance, but i'm not sure. did you expirienced such a problem? if yes - maybe some ideas how to resolve it.

thanks,

filip

Filip,

I have currently ran into the same problem. I retightened everything and that helped a little bit, but not much. I am running my CD motor off of 2 AAA batteries and am wondering if the lack of voltage is making the CD wobble or something? Right now that is the only thing I can think of, just don't know if that is it. If you fix it let us know. I may be able to work more on it this weekend. If I fix, I'll let you know...good luck

Clay

I'm no electricity expert, but I believe a lot of people are misguided in their battery talk. Regardless of your use of 2 AAs or 2 AAAs the voltage used will be the same. The only thing you are changing is the capacity of power they hold.

Also, in reply to the Ohioan get together, I'm now back down in Athens, OH at Ohio University. I was home in Akron over break.

Spencer Houck

So, 2 AAA's will put out the same power as 2 AA's? If that's the case then I have some other noise issue! Back to the drawing board...

2 AAA's will work just as well but the batteries will die faster.

Look to see what the milli amp hour rating (mAh) is (if it lists it) to determine the difference betwee the AA and AAA.

Cheers,
Brian

I have been wondering what stops the camcorder makers to make their lens work the same way as film lens?

If I'm not mistaken a digital camera has the same DOF as film cameras. Can't Sony just use their digital camera parts on the video camcorder?

Noisy motor. resting flat, any out-of-balance on the CD will cause the shaft to maintain contact with the bearing(s). The weight of the whole CD and armature presents an end load which also keeps things tight.

Upright - the out-of-balance on the CD might just be enough to lift the shaft off contact with the bearing and drop it back = rattle, or you will get end-float = rattle or in more extreme examples little shifts off the focal plane.

Two cures you can try :-

1. Lube the front bearing. You should use the special oil made for oilite or sintered bronze bearings. Anything else will destroy their ability to wick up oil and stay damp and thus lubricated.

2. Restore the pressure plate from the CD player to the hub. This should fix any end-float noise.

Otherwise, you will have to blimp the CD enclosure and possibly have to isolate the motor from the structure onto a rubber mount.

Ok. So after 700+ posts, I had to try this.

Stuff:

GL2 - from Zotz (plug)
Macro from a Digital Optics W/A adapter ($60 cheapie from Ebay)
GG is you guessed it - Maxell disk - $9
lens is Pentax 1:2 50mm from ABCPawn - $35
Vise grips - had those
Motor from my son's CD player - don't tell him. He needed a new one anyway. $10
Sun flowers from somewhere.

Output was only flipped in AE. No other correction done.
Compressed to 320x160 Sorenson 3.

Here is the setup:

http://www.arcsand.com/side.jpg
http://www.arcsand.com/front.jpg
http://www.arcsand.com/bacl.jpg


Here is the video (11meg file):

http://www.arcsand.com/agus35.mov

I can set out a smaller file if anyone wants.

I pulled the zoom back from the camera in the first part of the video for fun. I am impressed with the results. I get some flicker from what appears to be the spin freq of the disc. A little vignetting, but not much.

Whatever case I build, I will make sure the both the lens and GG are movable in relation to the camera since it was tricky to get those settings right.

Very cool, Agus.

Tom

Hey Tom,
Test looks very good.

Just to let you know your video (as it appears to me) has the last 2/3 of the video to be black.

That should cut down on your file size:)

Great job on the Agus test.

Thanks. Just cut down. Didn't do much for file size - now 10 meg.

I am re-rendering small version and will post shortly.

Tom

BTW - that was 320x240 not 320x160.

http://www.arcsand.com/agus35.mov linked.
is your macro a +10? and jim should post plans on building the project box for the gl1

and tom, the first few seconds of the video, is it without the macro lense?

Smaller version 2meg.

http://www.arcsand.com/agus35_sml.mov

Tom