You're taking a highly compressed lossy format and then uncompressing each frame and recompressing it. However, you might be able to get acceptable results. What MPEG2 preset are you using?

One other thing I thought of. Nesting. I'm not sure I understand this but is nesting the ability to add individual veg files in order on a new parent veg file? The reason I am leaning to individual renders is that if I ever want to mix my compilations at a future time, I can easily mix and match. I am producing a series of these performances and just shot the material. I am looking for a consistant workflow that works easily and consistently.

Jeff

Nesting in Vegas and playlists in DVDA will help you with that work flow. You can replace items as they need to be updated, deleted, etc. For what you have described, you can shoose which way you want to go. If you nest projects in Vegas and render a single output file, then you don't need to use playlists in DVDA but you will need to create a chapter menu (very easy on a single media file with chapter markers created in Vegas). If you render projects seperately in vegas then to play them all on DVDA you will need a playlist. It just deepends on how much time you want to spend re-rendering your previous work if you add a new section. The nested project option means you will have to re-render the whole parent project timeline in order to include the new scenes / songs. The playlist option means you can selectively render only the new scene / song and add it to the playlist in DVDA.

Nesting in vegas is exactly how you describe it. Open your parent project and then select the individual scene / song project using the explorer tab (or drag the file from Windows Explorer right on top of the timeline).

Hope that helps.

jason

Edward, thanks for your reply. I'd been just barely aware of the veggie toolkit, I'll look at it more closely after the current projects settle down.

Or maybe I should try modding Sony's script... the best time to learn a new skill is when you really want the results, right?

If you want something taylor made for your workflow, it might be best to modify one personally for yourself. Otherwise, most other solutions will be more generic.

I tried several. I used the DVD NTSC template - I also tried to set it to MPEG rather than DVD in the custom area. I am using Vegas 6.0d. I downloaded a couple of shareware programs that "split" clips and got better results but nothing as good as the original. I suspected that it was compreessing/uncompressing etc. and that was the problem. I wish I could just extract the clips - leave them as is without the compression.

Thanks for the quick response.

If you're doing cuts-only editing, you should be able to achieve what you are wanting by using a program such as Womble.

I wrote a letter to John about this, but I'm going to post it here since I've tried a couple of things since I wrote the letter and thought I would see if others have had the same problem.

When I view a clip that I shot of a building - panning across the building in a medium pan, I notice that the playback appears to stutter - like it's catching up - sound is fine and when I render the same piece of tape and play it back in an external player, the tape is fine too. No stutter, no jump.

I have 2 gigs of ram and the the super fast AMD 4600. It's not a monitor thing as I have viewed it on the monitor and an external monitor.

I changed the amt. of ram avaliable for preview from 64 mg to 512 but not difference.
Am I missing a setup thing I don't know about.
This was shot in 29.97 and I'm playing it back in 29.97.
There are no efffects, and when I remove everything from the time line except this little bitty clip, it still does it.

thanks!
Milt

Couple of ideas;
1. Previewing at anything other than Preview/Auto or Preview/Full?
2. DMA enabled for your hard drives?
3. HDD's not sharing channel with active DVD drive/CDRom drive?
4. Any default track FX in place?
5. Scopes not only not visible, but turned off?
6. Opacity at track level set to 100%?
7. Captured using a DV codec?

These are all possible/potential causes of stuttered playback on any machine..

Hmmm.....excellent thoughts. I will check them out tomorrow and report back.
I captured this video with windows movie maker. Ok I'm an idiot but I didn't really know that it can make a difference.

I've used Scenelyzer Live for a long time, but haven't loaded it up yet.
Anyway, I'll go throught the list you suggested and see what's up.

Thanks, Spot!
Milt

Ok so here's the status - still no luck

1. Previewing at anything other than Preview/Auto or Preview/Full?
preview is set to Preview(full)
2. DMA enabled for your hard drives?
don't know where to check on this
3. HDD's not sharing channel with active DVD drive/CDRom drive?
Hmmm...don't know how to check on this either - but totally willing to find out.
4. Any default track FX in place?
Nope
5. Scopes not only not visible, but turned off?
Turned off
6. Opacity at track level set to 100%?
100%
7. Captured using a DV codec?
Well, now this is a question. Windows movie maker seems to be using a DV codec. I thought, well I'll try using Vegas to capture but it doesn't seem to like - or at the very least recoginize my camera. Previously I was running it (Sony TRV520 Digital 8) directly in with a firewire. Vegas didn't see it - so I set up the ADS Pyro A/V link, and it still doesn't see it.

I went back and looked at some 24P from my DVX100A and it looked fine - it was captured with Scenalyzer Live and doesn't jump at all. So it could well be that it's the DMA setting that you talked about.

Can you give me more information on where to find that?

Thanks,
Milt

OK folks, I got it to work! Here's what I did:

Messed with the Pyro A/V link, no luck,
looked at the setup program when you boot, could see anything to changee,
and then after trying all kinds of ways to get Vegas to see my little camera - plugging into various 1394 jacks, I went the old fashioned way -

I installed Scenalyzer Live 4.0 (my key that I bought several years ago still works - as promised) and sure enough, it captured the video beautifully and better yet - IT PLAYS BACK WITH NO SKIPS!! Another big plus - with Scenalyzer - you don't need an extra video capture card, if your computer has 1394 built in. Very cool.

So it wasn't the computer setup - that was hunky-dory. It was MICROSOFT's MOVIE MAKER! It must do something to the codec that is not standard.

Actually though, the cool part is that Vegas could play this non-standard codec, and then render it without a hitch. Even if it did skip in previews.

I'm still in love with Vegas, but I wish I could capture stuff directly. However, having said that, Scenalyzer offers so many great features that I still prefer it to any other capture program.
One more thing. With the nice computer I built - based on John Rolfano's specs, you don't need an extra video capture card. The computer has 2 1394 jacks built in and sees different digital cameras quite nicely. I did buy the Pyro A/V link, but I'm not using it, and I might be interested in selling it - if somebody needs a capture device for analog/digital.

Thanks for the advice, Spot
Milt

I am sure this is another easy one, but upon a quick search on "WMA" I did not see the answer...

How do I use a protected WMA file in Vegas. It is for a personal project that is not being broadcast or anything like that...just doing a montage.

Haven't tried it yet, but I am thinking that burning it to CD and then ripping back to Vegas may work. What's the trick?

2) While I'm at it...anyone know how I can convert SD2 files into something usable in Windows. I have tried a couple converters with no success.

Thanks again, Jim

Going from CFHD codec back to m2t to print back to HDV tape or to dvd architect what render quality to you set it too?? can I get away with "good" cause it takes a while when it is set on "best".

Thanks!

Thanks for the reply John.

Yes, I turned off/down the speakers when recording. And I've tried the other device options you mentioned.

I have moved up to Vegas+DVD since the original post, and also moved to a couple of better microphones.

I still find that unless I mute the existing audio track in Vegas, it is recorded onto the narration track. That with the mic off, or not even plugged in. The audio level of the "bleed" is relative to the volume level of the microphone level control in the sound card volume control window. I don't know if this bleed over is some fault of my system or connections, or in the Vegas software. Perhaps this is a way to "copy" your audio track for some reason?

The noise level in my narration recording has diminished significantly after switching off "mic boost" in the volume control window. I can also EQ the track to cut the noise at the appropriate freqency(ies).

After playing around with different mics, I have found that the Rode Videomic offers the best audio with my setup. It has a hotter signal than the dynamic mics which seems to allow the input level to be set lower, ergo lower "noise" level...and acceptable.


It is still not as clean as I would like, but I'll keep playing.


Jamie

I don't know if this bleed over is some fault of my system or connections, or in the Vegas software.Nope, that’s inherent in the motherboard audio chip. Mine does the same thing. The audio level of the "bleed" is relative to the volume level of the microphone level control in the sound card volume control window because it is being caused by the inferior component isolation on motherboard audio chips. You’re not going to get rid of that. Just forget about using it and save yourself a lot of headaches. That’s why I bought an M-Audio FW-410 for recording.

It sounds like you’ve gotten pretty far, but if you are serious about recording clean voiceovers then take the next step and get a decent audio card. Even a little M-Audio MobilePre USB (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=275195&is=REG) ($149) will sound a world better than the motherboard audio you are using now. The VideoMic will plug right into it. If you want to get a nice inexpensive side-addressing condenser mic, take a look at the Audio-Technica AT2020 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=356521&is=REG) ($99). For $250 you’d have a nice setup for recording quality voiceovers without hum or bleed-through.

~jr

I have some footage that I have on DVD that works fine when watching it on a DVD player eg no freezes, perfect quality etc etc

However, when I transfer the VOB file directly into Vegas 6.0 and then render it as firstly DV-AVI it renders properly the complete file it would seem, however, when I go to watch bthe clip that I have rendered, it freezes at 11 minutes 30 for the rest of the clip (20 minutes). It just stays put on the very last frame at 11 30 and doesnt change at all HOWEVER, the sound does continue as normal for the rest of the clip.

I *thought* hopefully, that maybe it was just for the AVI format, so I tried again, rendering the same video with WMV 3mbps, and again the same thing happened, freezes at the exact same frame for the rest of the clip AND the sound still continues as normal.

I really do not know what is causing this as the clip is perfect when I am watching at on the DVD player.

Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Scott

I agree with Edward. I use Womble on an occassional basis for things like this if I'm not incorporating any new footage.

Of course, if you're adding new footage, you could always render your MPEG2 files through Vegas and then cut/assemble your edit through Womble.

The file is already and MPG2 file. I am trying not to lose any resolution but just CUT the clip up a little. So, I'm guessing that womble will cut it but not recompress/uncomprress/recompress the clips??

Yes, you are correct. You can't really make changes to the clips other than cutting/deleting/moving them. There is no recompression.

I think the link is www.womble.com - I believe you can do a limited trial to see if it's what you need.

i dont know where this would go so mods move it as you wish.

on dvd architect i made a custom scene selection screen and i cant get to the main menu from that other page (second scene selection page) plese help

Add a new button and point it to the main menu. That should do it for you.

Generally speaking, you would normally just add a sub-menu to the main menu and then design the scene selection screen. Or... let DVDA create the scene selection menu based on the chapter points and then you can clean it up to make it look nice.

I've tried to work with Sony support, but they are terrible, so I thought I post my question here. I have a 3.2Ghz HT Pentium 4 with 2GB memory and 2 SATA drives. It may not be the fastest PC out there, but it's not too shabby. I'm new to video editing on the PC, so I'm using VMSP 6.0a rather than the full Vegas 6.0d.

Anyway, my issue is the amount of time it takes to render to WMV files. It looks like I'm 100% CPU bound while rendering. I'm seeing 20X rendering speeds, basically 20 hours to render a 1 hour tape to WMV. I'm not using any FXs, it's the video straight from the tape without and changes.

My questions:

Is this the best I can expect?

Are there any settings I can adjust to get better performance?

Would I see better performance with the full version of Vegas?

WMV gives a very good quality to size performance ratio, but are there other CODECs that I should be looking at that would render quicker with similar performance?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

ok noob question how do i point it to the main menu?

What is your final output for? Web?
What bitrate is the WMV?
Encoding is a very difficult thing to do on a CPU, and compressing to WMV is no small task.
You need to know the target bitrate.
You need to know the target audience.
You need to know exactly why you're encoding to WMV.

It also sounds like your system isn't optimal. Render time shouldn't be 20:1, unless it's a slow system, but 10:1 isn't out of the question.

So, we need more information about the why you're rendering to WMV, and the bitrate you're rendering to. Additionally, it would be helpful if you specified the resolution to which you're rendering.

In simple terms add a button to the menu. Click on the button to hilight button properties. Look for Navigation. Then on the navigation drop down choose the main menu. That should do it.

I am sure this is another easy one, but upon a quick search on "WMA" I did not see the answer...

How do I use a protected WMA file in Vegas. It is for a personal project that is not being broadcast or anything like that...just doing a montage.

Haven't tried it yet, but I am thinking that burning it to CD and then ripping back to Vegas may work. What's the trick?

2) While I'm at it...anyone know how I can convert SD2 files into something usable in Windows. I have tried a couple converters with no success.

Thanks again, Jim

I might have an answer for you...

Unfortunately for anyone wanting to learn and try new things or experiment with other content, it doesn't matter what kind of use you have in mind; commercial, educational, personal, etc. The file was protected by the content developer so that its use other than in its predetermined players is not possible. This also means that legally and use you might make of the product after defeating whatever protection mechanism is in place, would be illegal.

I didn't say the answer would be favorable. As far as defeating protection schemes on WMA's I have not heard of any cracks or decrypting programs yet. I only have some (small) experience with DeCSS for decrypting DVD .vob files.

jason

alright thx i got it

The camcorder is a Sony HDR-HC1 recording in HDV format. I capture the video in VMSP 6.0a and then split it into scenes (home video type content). The project template is set to "HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080, 29.970 fps)" which sets rendering quality to "Good". In the Render As dialog in the Save as type I choose "Windows Media Video V9 (*.wmv)", and the template is "8 Mbps HD 1080-30p Video". Here's the description:

Audio: 192 Kbps, 48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, WMA9.
Video: 27.97 fps, 1440x1080, PAR=1.3333, WMV V9 CBR Compression, Smoothness 90.
Use this setting for high-quality HD video playback on a 3.0 GHz computer or better.

This is a pretty fast CPU, so unless I step up to a supercomputer I don't think there's much I can do there. As a comparison, using Windows Movie Maker I'm able to "real time" encode analog VHS tapes to WMV files (2.1Mbps, 640x480, 30fps) so a 2 hour tape takes 2 hours to create the WMV. I know this is SD and 1/4 the bit rate, but the capture is flawless and I never miss a frame so I know I have CPU to spare.

The reason I'm using WMV over MPEG-2 is the WMV achieve similar quality and a fraction of the bit rate and therefore file size. Right now the WMV files are on a hard disk, but eventually they will be burned to DVD. I want "near" HDV quality, so reducing the bit rate is not an option.

I believe VMSP is very inefficient in it's conversion from MPEG-2 HDV to WMV. I can't prove it because I don't have anything to compare it to. My only hope is that either there is a setting in VMSP I can change that will dramatically improve performance (5:1 encoding times would be acceptable), or if someone could say the full version of Vegas is the solution (I doubt it since it probably uses the same encoding engine).

Thanks for taking the time to help. Just in the questions you've asked you've put Sony Support to shame! Thanks,

Steve

Steve,
It's not an appropriate comparison to look at what you're doing with avi to wmv vs mpeg to wmv, regardless of resolution.
Bear in mind, a highly compressed mpeg file from your HC1e has to be decompressed, displayed, then recompressed to a higher compression ratio. Vegas could be more optimal in how it decodes MPEG, no doubt. That said, it'll be a long, long time before it's going to be 5:1, I think.
One thing you could do that would speed the process is to convert to CineForm on capture, and use the resulting 4:2:2 files in VMS to go to wmv. You'll see a faster encode. Download the CineForm 2 week trial, give it a shot.

Could you give me some more details? Are you referring to ConnectHD? The info on the site mentions Vegas 5, will this work with VMS Platinum 6.0a? I'm willing to give it a try, but $200 seems like a lot unless I see a huge difference in encoding time.

I also saw a mention of CineForm being included in VMSP, but I can't find a way to select it for Capture. Any thoughts?

Thanks again,

Steve

The CineForm codec is in VMS, but you don't have access to the capture tool. that comes from CineForm only.
There is a 2 week trial, I'd give it a go. It'll definitely encode faster, but not likely at 5:1.
And yes, it will function just fine with VMS.

I am so annoyed (to put it nicely) with all of these copyright protection schemes! There has got to be a better way.

Thanks for the reply,

Jim

I just finished installing and formatting a 2nd hard drive.
I want to use one now as a primary capture and storage drive (preferably the new one, as it is larger).

My question is, between XP, Vegas, captured AVI files, and all associated media… what is the best way to split things up?

*Where should my render files and dvd output (video_ts, etc) go?

*Whereas the avi video’s I am capturing consist of a few large files, I have many small files (such as images and music) which I use consistently in various projects. Where should they go, ideally?

I desire the most efficient workflow possible, but please keep in mind I am very new to all of this. Thanks!

EDIT: Also... as far as getting the most out of these things... is there any user advice I should know concerning excess heat or overuse? I can't really afford to have something die right off the bat.

Do they exist? If so where? I am a real wet behind the ears newbie in the advanced editing world. I know how to edit, but I never did special fx. Light say a light saber, or fire from hands. Here are my tools:

Vegas 6
Dvd Arch 3
Lightwave 9
Vue 5 Infinite

Well I just added laser electrical charges out of a robots claws using a photoshop file by drawing the charges. Then using the keyframe and cropping matched them to the Robot - flipped them, etc. Basically, I animated this myself and then added sound efx.

You can all go to www.detonationfilms.com to get some DV footage of explosions, etc some filmed in front of a nice blue sky which makes chroma keying very easy. These look good too. Other samples are against black bg's.

If all else fails, google.

Thank again John,

Great suggestions.

Jamie

I'm also wanting audio to work with the 16x9 post....is there anything I need to do with that??

I've done everything I can to get my image to be widescreen. I'm using the XL1S camera with the guides only..not in 16x9 mode.... I want to crop in post to 16x9 - I followed the directions according to the Vegas Movie Studio + DVD by Douglas Spotted Eagle and John Rofrano, but I must be doing something wrong - I'm getting a 4x6 image with a black border on the left and right of the image. I've checked everything that is suspose to be checked....what am I doing wrong?

Trust me, u dont wnat to post the same question (reworded) in different forums. Its not very polite and it bogs up the site. For you, it may even cause further confusion coz ur tryin to kep tabs on 2 posts as opposed to one..

to answer your question

1) create a widescreen project
2)Import your masked 4:3 footage
3) click the PanCrop tab ON THE CLIP ITSELF (not track)
4) select teh 16:9 preset
5) Voila

there is no need to change any aspect ratios, vegas will do this for youoh and to answer the question from you other post, the balc bars will only appear on a 4:3 tv, so long as u render out as 16:9 and make sure u check the box that says "stretch to fill frame, do not letterbox"

Right click, choose Pan/Crop (there is also an icon) and choose "Match Output Aspect Settings" and that'll do it for you.
Audio doesn't care about the image aspect.

As Peter mentioned, please do not cross-post.

I apologize for the double posting, but there were two different Vegas forums I found or I thought I found and that is the only reason I did so - wasn't sure which one to post in. I'm new to this forum, so bear with me, please. Thanks for your information guys. I think I know what you were talking about - it was a little over the top to the newbie - but I'll give it a try.

So you're saying that it will always be in 4x3 after I burn a dvd, unless I show it on a widescreen television?? Why wouldn't it still show on a 4x3 television with the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen?

I apologize for the double posting, but there were two different Vegas forums I found or I thought I found and that is the only reason I did so - wasn't sure which one to post in.

The short answer is: If the question is related to HDV, post in the HDV Vegas forum. Otherwise use this one. However, if you post in one of them, simply don't post the same question in the other one.

I downloaded the file and when i try to run it, it says my system has not been updated and will not install it completely. Has anyone else had this problem? I use vegas 6+dvd

You might not have gotten a clean download. That happens sometimes. If you have a slow webconnection, you might consider trying to download again, but using a download manager.

If you have a slow webconnection, you might consider trying to download again, but using a download manager.

. .and this is a most excellent one . .I use it and it is zippppy fast!

http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/

.. . G

thanks for the rules - I'll pay closer attention next time. It is very understandable.
Dean

It's been a year I figured they would be cranking it out for NAB. Maybe not?

Those who do know can't say.
The rest of us will have to wait and hope.
Put another way, if there's no announcement by next Tuesday, it won't be happening next week.

Usually NAB is the launch time for it, but if its anything like 6a Debacle at the NAB 05 launch, id say wait until the first update comes through..

Also, V7 is going to HAVE to be something special... very special..

About 2 months ago, I used a VHS player / DVD recorder to copy my old home movies to DVDs. Yes, I know about quality loss after recompression, but the original tapes were dying, and this seemed to be a quick-fix solution. That is, until I tried to bring those clips into Vegas...

I use DVD Decryptor to select Chapters, and get VOB files onto my hard drive. I then use VOB2MPEG to create Mpegs. I'd like to omit this last step, however, I do not see VOBs in Vegas' Explorer, but that's the least of my troubles.

Both VOBs & MPGs play fine in PowerDVD and Windows Media Player. However, when I preview MPGs in Vegas, the video appears to be 'jerky', as if it is 'stuttering' (I mean video, the sound is OK). Considering that other forum members mention using MPEGs without problems, I have no idea what's wrong with my installation of Vegas. I'm using version 6d. I've had to import MPEGs couple of times before in version 4, and do not remember having this problem.

I also tried to convert MPGs to AVIs using TmpgEnc, VirtualDub Mpeg, and a bunch of other programs, but the resulting AVI always plays fine outside of Vegas, and always stutters in Vegas.

Lastly, hitting stop while previewing MPGs causes Vegas to freeze, and I have to restart the program. Regular (DV) AVIs are OK.

TIA - Roman.