MA-100 XLR audio adapter questions

Robert Castiglione · April 22nd, 2003, 08:17 AM

Don't get me wrong, I love this camera and use it a lot.

But there are of course at least some objective standards when it comes to sound and measuring audio performance.

Read what Jay Rose has to say about the audio performance of the Xl1 compared to a range of other cameras and formats in "Producing Great Sound for Digital Video 2nd edition pp175 ff.

Rob Castiglione

Jeff Donald · April 22nd, 2003, 09:47 AM

The sound capabilities of the camera are fine for ENG and similar type work. But for the highest quality recording audio should be recorded to DAT. Audio is not great on any of the cameras in this price range. Audio capabilities will meet some peoples needs, but others should search out alternatives within their budgets (DAT, Mini Disc etc.).

Don Palomaki · April 22nd, 2003, 05:05 PM

The MA-100 contains an electronic (i.e., no transformers) balanced-to-unbalanced converter that is based on operational amplifiers. The 5 VDC powers the circuits.

Vic Owen · April 22nd, 2003, 08:56 PM

Don's comments about line levels are right on. Even with an attenuator, it can be tricky. Early-on, I tried feeding a low level signal from my Mackie to the MA-100 -- I screwed up more than one recording. It goes into hard limit amazingly easy. Once I switched to the Beachtek for line-level stuff, the problems went away.

As with most stuff, there a few devices that do everything well. Stick to mics only with the MA-100.

April 22nd, 2003, 09:29 PM

I have found the on-board mic (xl1s does a very nice job in most ENG situations, and it has some limits related to dramatic scenes. What I'd like to do is find an extension cable for the on-board mic so it can be used as a short boom or stick mic for interviews,

Steve Vandergriff · April 22nd, 2003, 10:53 PM

Thank you everyone, that's the info I was looking for!

Regards,

-Steve Vandergriff

James Emory · April 23rd, 2003, 02:05 AM

I am not an audio expert and do not know how this worked out but it did. I shot a live stage performance for a performer's personal viewing purposes where the audio was the most critical part as described by the client. They said make sure the audio is clean. Well, I set up near the audio engineers and took a feed from their mix and went into my XL with an XLR Y-adapter into the MA-200 and the audio was perfect. I made sure to ride the levels the whole time. At first during sound checks, the audio was distorted but after toggling through the menu selections it became clean. I hate to admit this but I cannot remember which setting I finally used. I do remember that what worked didn't make sense. In other words, I first tried what made sense, the line selection, and that's what was distorted. So, it was either the mic att20 or the mic setting. The fact is that it worked and the audio was clean.

James Emory · April 23rd, 2003, 02:07 AM

I am not an audio expert and do not know how this worked out but it did. I shot a live stage performance for a performer's personal viewing purposes where the audio was the most critical part as described by the client. They said make sure the audio is clean. Well, I set up near the audio engineers and took a feed from their mix and went into my XL with an XLR Y-adapter into the MA-200 and the audio was perfect. I made sure to ride the levels the whole time. At first during sound checks, the audio was distorted but after toggling through the menu selections it became clean. I hate to admit this but I cannot remember which setting I finally used. I do remember that what worked didn't make sense. In other words, I first tried what made sense, the line selection, and that's what was distorted. So, it was either the mic att20 or the mic setting. The fact is that it worked and the audio was clean.

Josh Bass · April 24th, 2003, 01:30 PM

I tried use my ME66 with the MA100 yesterday, and could not get any sound on the XL1s's VU meters. New batteries, everything plugged in and hooked up correctly. I finally discovered today that the little cord on the MA100 (the power supply, I believe?) is not connecting with its corresponding jack on the back of the XL1s for some reason. Even when all the way in, dead silence. I jiggled it and pushed it, and finally got something, but it was very static-y, though you could hear the actual sound the mic was recording as well. What can I do? Please don't tell me to send anything to anywhere. I'll just cry.

Don Palomaki · April 24th, 2003, 07:20 PM

The small plug provides +5 VDC for tha MA100. It MUST be connectd to the corrsponding jack at the back of the camcorder. Also, the audio leads from the MA100 MUST be conencted to the Camera body. If they are not connected, the MA100 does not receive power because the earth return for power is via the audio ground (not the power cord).

Assuming you are using 16-bit audio mode, the MIC/Audio 1 switch behind the door should be set to Audio 1, and the Audio 1 input level on themenu menu should be set for MIC ATT or MIC level.

Josh Bass · April 24th, 2003, 07:48 PM

Yes, and after all that, still no signal.

Don Palomaki · April 25th, 2003, 04:17 AM

OK. The most common issues are checked.

Have you tested the Audio 1 input onthe camcorder with a differnt source? perhaps connect the mic directly to the left and then the right auido 1 input using a simple XLR-to RCA adapter? That will test the camcorder inputs.

If the camera inputs are OK, it most likely is the MA-100. The crackling static you mentioned often indictes a bad or unreliable connection somewhere, possibly in the power plug. That could be damaged over time and extensive use. I've seen bad cable connections in the past, even among the so called "premium" brands.

Josh Bass · April 28th, 2003, 12:53 AM

Could I get an XLR to RCA adapter and plug it in somewhere, and use that to run my Sennheiser? How would I do this?

Don Palomaki · April 28th, 2003, 03:30 AM

You can find low cost (not balanced, no transformer) XLR adapters at Radio Shack. They cost onthe order of $7. Mic cable goes into one end, the other to the Audio 1 input.

Note that the transformer type at Radio Shack provide low-to-high impedance matching, and will not work well with the XL1 at MIC input levels because the XL1 MIC-level inputs are low impedance..

Tim Wood · April 28th, 2003, 05:49 AM

hello,

I have two questions concerning the MA 100 and the canon XL-1....

The first question is ....Can I only use a battery operated microphone with the MA-100?

I am looking at the Sennheiser
ME 66K6 Super-Cardioid Short Shotgun Condenser Microphone Capsule with K6 (Battery/Phantom) Power Supply....do I need the power supply to use this mic with the MA 100? Do I need a mic with phantom power to use the beechtek adapter as well?
any suggetion would be helpful....thanks.

Tim

April 22nd, 2003, 08:17 AM	#151
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Sound quality using Xl1s Don't get me wrong, I love this camera and use it a lot. But there are of course at least some objective standards when it comes to sound and measuring audio performance. Read what Jay Rose has to say about the audio performance of the Xl1 compared to a range of other cameras and formats in "Producing Great Sound for Digital Video 2nd edition pp175 ff. Rob Castiglione

April 22nd, 2003, 09:47 AM	#152
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The sound capabilities of the camera are fine for ENG and similar type work. But for the highest quality recording audio should be recorded to DAT. Audio is not great on any of the cameras in this price range. Audio capabilities will meet some peoples needs, but others should search out alternatives within their budgets (DAT, Mini Disc etc.). __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 22nd, 2003, 08:56 PM	#154
Vic Owen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 540	Don's comments about line levels are right on. Even with an attenuator, it can be tricky. Early-on, I tried feeding a low level signal from my Mackie to the MA-100 -- I screwed up more than one recording. It goes into hard limit amazingly easy. Once I switched to the Beachtek for line-level stuff, the problems went away. As with most stuff, there a few devices that do everything well. Stick to mics only with the MA-100. __________________ -- Vic Owen --

April 22nd, 2003, 09:29 PM	#155
Guest Posts: n/a	xl1s levels I have found the on-board mic (xl1s does a very nice job in most ENG situations, and it has some limits related to dramatic scenes. What I'd like to do is find an extension cable for the on-board mic so it can be used as a short boom or stick mic for interviews,

April 23rd, 2003, 02:05 AM	#157
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	MA-100 / MA-200 Line input I am not an audio expert and do not know how this worked out but it did. I shot a live stage performance for a performer's personal viewing purposes where the audio was the most critical part as described by the client. They said make sure the audio is clean. Well, I set up near the audio engineers and took a feed from their mix and went into my XL with an XLR Y-adapter into the MA-200 and the audio was perfect. I made sure to ride the levels the whole time. At first during sound checks, the audio was distorted but after toggling through the menu selections it became clean. I hate to admit this but I cannot remember which setting I finally used. I do remember that what worked didn't make sense. In other words, I first tried what made sense, the line selection, and that's what was distorted. So, it was either the mic att20 or the mic setting. The fact is that it worked and the audio was clean.

April 22nd, 2003, 05:05 PM	#153
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	The MA-100 contains an electronic (i.e., no transformers) balanced-to-unbalanced converter that is based on operational amplifiers. The 5 VDC powers the circuits.

April 22nd, 2003, 10:53 PM	#156
Steve Vandergriff New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 5	Thank you everyone, that's the info I was looking for! Regards, -Steve Vandergriff

April 23rd, 2003, 02:07 AM	#158
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	MA-100 / MA-200 Line input I am not an audio expert and do not know how this worked out but it did. I shot a live stage performance for a performer's personal viewing purposes where the audio was the most critical part as described by the client. They said make sure the audio is clean. Well, I set up near the audio engineers and took a feed from their mix and went into my XL with an XLR Y-adapter into the MA-200 and the audio was perfect. I made sure to ride the levels the whole time. At first during sound checks, the audio was distorted but after toggling through the menu selections it became clean. I hate to admit this but I cannot remember which setting I finally used. I do remember that what worked didn't make sense. In other words, I first tried what made sense, the line selection, and that's what was distorted. So, it was either the mic att20 or the mic setting. The fact is that it worked and the audio was clean.

April 24th, 2003, 01:30 PM	#159
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Ma 100 or jack problem? I tried use my ME66 with the MA100 yesterday, and could not get any sound on the XL1s's VU meters. New batteries, everything plugged in and hooked up correctly. I finally discovered today that the little cord on the MA100 (the power supply, I believe?) is not connecting with its corresponding jack on the back of the XL1s for some reason. Even when all the way in, dead silence. I jiggled it and pushed it, and finally got something, but it was very static-y, though you could hear the actual sound the mic was recording as well. What can I do? Please don't tell me to send anything to anywhere. I'll just cry. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 24th, 2003, 07:20 PM	#160
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	The small plug provides +5 VDC for tha MA100. It MUST be connectd to the corrsponding jack at the back of the camcorder. Also, the audio leads from the MA100 MUST be conencted to the Camera body. If they are not connected, the MA100 does not receive power because the earth return for power is via the audio ground (not the power cord). Assuming you are using 16-bit audio mode, the MIC/Audio 1 switch behind the door should be set to Audio 1, and the Audio 1 input level on themenu menu should be set for MIC ATT or MIC level.

April 24th, 2003, 07:48 PM	#161
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Yes, and after all that, still no signal. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 25th, 2003, 04:17 AM	#162
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	OK. The most common issues are checked. Have you tested the Audio 1 input onthe camcorder with a differnt source? perhaps connect the mic directly to the left and then the right auido 1 input using a simple XLR-to RCA adapter? That will test the camcorder inputs. If the camera inputs are OK, it most likely is the MA-100. The crackling static you mentioned often indictes a bad or unreliable connection somewhere, possibly in the power plug. That could be damaged over time and extensive use. I've seen bad cable connections in the past, even among the so called "premium" brands.

April 28th, 2003, 12:53 AM	#163
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Could I get an XLR to RCA adapter and plug it in somewhere, and use that to run my Sennheiser? How would I do this? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 28th, 2003, 03:30 AM	#164
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	You can find low cost (not balanced, no transformer) XLR adapters at Radio Shack. They cost onthe order of $7. Mic cable goes into one end, the other to the Audio 1 input. Note that the transformer type at Radio Shack provide low-to-high impedance matching, and will not work well with the XL1 at MIC input levels because the XL1 MIC-level inputs are low impedance..

April 28th, 2003, 05:49 AM	#165
Tim Wood Tourist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2	only a battery operated mic with MA 100? hello, I have two questions concerning the MA 100 and the canon XL-1.... The first question is ....Can I only use a battery operated microphone with the MA-100? I am looking at the Sennheiser ME 66K6 Super-Cardioid Short Shotgun Condenser Microphone Capsule with K6 (Battery/Phantom) Power Supply....do I need the power supply to use this mic with the MA 100? Do I need a mic with phantom power to use the beechtek adapter as well? any suggetion would be helpful....thanks. Tim