MA-100 XLR audio adapter questions

Ed Frazier · April 28th, 2003, 06:59 AM

Hi Tim and welcome to the community. I'm sure the audio pros will chime in here shortly, but the quick answer is no, you do not have to use phantom/battery powered mics (condenser type) with the MA100. There are dynamic type mics available that do not need phantom power, but they are generally of lesser quality than condenser type mics.

The ME66 is a condenser mic and does require the K6 module to work.

Phantom power is required for the microphone, not the adapter. The Beachtek and MA100 will work with either condenser or dynamic mics, but neither supply phantom power to the mic.

Don Berube · April 28th, 2003, 09:43 AM

Hi Tim,

Yes, you would need the power supply for the ME66 for use with the MA100 or even the BeachTek. It's not that expensive anyways, and iit will allow you to use the mic with any piece of recording gear.

The XL1S does not provide phantom power, nor do the MA-100 or MA-200 XLR adaptors.

Keep in touch,

- don

Josh Bass · April 28th, 2003, 12:05 PM

What if I set it at MIC ATT? or Line?

Don Palomaki · April 28th, 2003, 06:02 PM

On the XL1, MIC ATT is still 600 ohm input impedance. Connecting to a high impedance source (e.g., 50,000 ohms, will result in significant attenuation of the signal - close to 20 dB.

Line input is 47k ohms, OK for modern high impedance source, but the level from the mic may prove a bit on the low side to drive the line setting.

Don Palomaki · April 28th, 2003, 06:09 PM

I believe that some (not all) of the new Beachtek and Studio One models offer a phantom power option. Their earlier models did not offer a phantom poweer option.

There are some quality dynamic mics, especially for voice and very loud sources (e.g., kick drums). But their output is tipically a bit lower than condensor mics for the same sound level.

Dynamics can be a bit more rugged. The Shure SM58 is among the most popular vocal stage mic.

Josh Bass · April 28th, 2003, 06:11 PM

Seems now that the problem lies with my mic. Not sure why. Could using the why splitter to make my mono signal "stereo" have messed it up? The last time it worked was the first time I'd used the splitter.

Don Palomaki · April 29th, 2003, 04:09 AM

Have you checked the mic with other gear? Not sure how a passive splitter could have messed up the ME66.

Wonder if the splitter / adapter is wired wrong?

Josh Bass · April 29th, 2003, 10:54 AM

Haha. Guess what? Not the mic! Tried two other mics with my adapter and camera, and none of them worked either. Took the whole thing to a place near where I live, and tried the mic on one of their cameras. Works fine! It's either the MA or the camera. I left it with a place (says their an authorized service center. . .so I hope my stuff comes back the same way it went in). The guy said he thinks he'll have to order another connector for the back of the camera. :(

Brad Simmons · May 8th, 2003, 11:02 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ed Frazier I contacted Beachtek to see if my XA-4S, which is the Sony TRV model, could be used with the XL1 and they said that internally it was the same as the unit designed for the XL1. It could be connected to the mic input with supplied mini plug or by using a mini plug/RCA adapter, connected to Audio 1 or 2. -->>>

I currently have the Beachtek model for the VX2000. I attached it to my Canon XL1s today and everything seemed to work fine. If these models are internally the same, and the look the same, and they'll each mount on the different cameras, then why does Beachtek sell separate models for different cameras? Am I really safe using the Vx2000 adapter on the Canon?

Don Palomaki · May 9th, 2003, 04:31 AM

Some (consumer model) camcorders have a DC votage bias on the mic plug to power some type of external mics. (This is NOT aphantom power.) I believe that Beachteck makes some models to block this voltage. There may be other differences as well.

James Emory · June 5th, 2003, 11:10 PM

Oops, I did it again! I took a line feed from a board and went straight into the XL-1 with the MA-200. It was badly distorted with the menu set at mic and barely audible set at the line setting. The internal menu setting had to be set to MIC att 20 and the audio was perfect.

Don Palomaki · June 6th, 2003, 04:15 AM

What kind of LINE feed? sounds like it may have been consumer line (-10 dBV) rather than professionl (+4 dBU) line.

Jim Giberti · June 7th, 2003, 02:57 PM

Well this has been a pet peeve/concern of mine for a while. As and audio and video/film producer, I've always had to produce "broadcast" quality work with different levels of gear in different environments and on different budgets over the years. Here's my read and recent solution to this ala XL1s.

In my recording studios no matter whether working with 24 track analog tape, rack of DA88s, Yamaha 02R digital consoles and Roland VS2480 DAW. I never use the onboard mic pres. Even on dedicated audio consoles, I use Focusrite, Neve, Joe Meek dedicated mic pres. Why...because unless you're spending 6 figures, you're simply not going to get the level of audio preamplification and interface that you can from a dedicated pre (imagine a console with 24 $2000 focusrite input modules and you see what I mean)

That said, imagine this logic carried into the world of video cameras...at any level. It's not just the XL1, it's any of the highest end cameras as well: you're simply not going to get high end audio technology, at the level of dedicated units.

Then there are the dreaded MA-100 and MA-200. They are not pro units. They use active electronics, they're not high end construction, they're noisy. And of course the headphone system on the Canon is just dumb.

Good news... for less than $600 (from Zotz) you can get a beautiful 2 channel Sound Devices MixPre (the guys who designed teh FP24 Shure field mixer...in fact this is that unit). Pristine Lundahl tecnology, metering, slate and tone generator, source and feed monitoring, variable limiting and roll off filters etc.

My issue was that the specs of the inherent DV medium should absolutely provide the quality for all but the biggest (feature film) work...and even there, A good engineer could work with it.

The problem was/is the inputs...pres...monitoring...metering are an after thought. By throwing away the MA-100, using the MixPre with a pair of XLR to RCA cables with 15db resistors (or just as functional but not as pro/rugged) a stereo mini to RCA cable coming out of the tape out, you can get real quality audio from the XL1, and monitor it for real by feeding the signal through the Mix Pre as well for pre/post monitoring.

The bottom line is anyone looking to do real audio for video needs to spend a few hundred dollars more...and that's not a lot to ask. Of course for bigger multi-source shoots you need more technology and a dedicated recorder, but for the vast majority of work being done on these systems...including the high end work, the audio can be just as good as the video. I see the bigger issue to be whether camera moves can accomodate recording directly to the camera. The audio quality itself isn't the issue.

Jay Reilly · June 19th, 2003, 09:00 AM

Hi Everyone,

I just got my order from B and H photo...and I had a question about the MA 100

I hook it up and attach my new shotgun mic to it and it is coming in Stereo which means that I can only hear it on one channel.

Is there a way to change it so that the audio is coming in on both the left and right??

BTW - I am hooking it up on the audio 1 RCA jacks with the littel 1/8 inch jack on the back of the handle.

Which adapter is better, the MA 100 or the BechTech DXA - 4C?

Thanks
Jay

Josh Bass · June 19th, 2003, 09:04 AM

For stereo, I bought a Y cable-- one XLR female to 2 XLR male. You just plug one into each input on the MA100

April 28th, 2003, 06:59 AM	#166
Ed Frazier Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 343	Hi Tim and welcome to the community. I'm sure the audio pros will chime in here shortly, but the quick answer is no, you do not have to use phantom/battery powered mics (condenser type) with the MA100. There are dynamic type mics available that do not need phantom power, but they are generally of lesser quality than condenser type mics. The ME66 is a condenser mic and does require the K6 module to work. Phantom power is required for the microphone, not the adapter. The Beachtek and MA100 will work with either condenser or dynamic mics, but neither supply phantom power to the mic. __________________ Ed Frazier

April 28th, 2003, 09:43 AM	#167
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Hi Tim, Yes, you would need the power supply for the ME66 for use with the MA100 or even the BeachTek. It's not that expensive anyways, and iit will allow you to use the mic with any piece of recording gear. The XL1S does not provide phantom power, nor do the MA-100 or MA-200 XLR adaptors. Keep in touch, - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

April 28th, 2003, 12:05 PM	#168
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	What if I set it at MIC ATT? or Line? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 28th, 2003, 06:11 PM	#171
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Seems now that the problem lies with my mic. Not sure why. Could using the why splitter to make my mono signal "stereo" have messed it up? The last time it worked was the first time I'd used the splitter. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 29th, 2003, 10:54 AM	#173
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Haha. Guess what? Not the mic! Tried two other mics with my adapter and camera, and none of them worked either. Took the whole thing to a place near where I live, and tried the mic on one of their cameras. Works fine! It's either the MA or the camera. I left it with a place (says their an authorized service center. . .so I hope my stuff comes back the same way it went in). The guy said he thinks he'll have to order another connector for the back of the camera. :( __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 28th, 2003, 06:02 PM	#169
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	On the XL1, MIC ATT is still 600 ohm input impedance. Connecting to a high impedance source (e.g., 50,000 ohms, will result in significant attenuation of the signal - close to 20 dB. Line input is 47k ohms, OK for modern high impedance source, but the level from the mic may prove a bit on the low side to drive the line setting.

April 28th, 2003, 06:09 PM	#170
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	I believe that some (not all) of the new Beachtek and Studio One models offer a phantom power option. Their earlier models did not offer a phantom poweer option. There are some quality dynamic mics, especially for voice and very loud sources (e.g., kick drums). But their output is tipically a bit lower than condensor mics for the same sound level. Dynamics can be a bit more rugged. The Shure SM58 is among the most popular vocal stage mic.

April 29th, 2003, 04:09 AM	#172
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Have you checked the mic with other gear? Not sure how a passive splitter could have messed up the ME66. Wonder if the splitter / adapter is wired wrong?

May 8th, 2003, 11:02 PM	#174
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	Re: MA200 Connections <<<-- Originally posted by Ed Frazier I contacted Beachtek to see if my XA-4S, which is the Sony TRV model, could be used with the XL1 and they said that internally it was the same as the unit designed for the XL1. It could be connected to the mic input with supplied mini plug or by using a mini plug/RCA adapter, connected to Audio 1 or 2. -->>> I currently have the Beachtek model for the VX2000. I attached it to my Canon XL1s today and everything seemed to work fine. If these models are internally the same, and the look the same, and they'll each mount on the different cameras, then why does Beachtek sell separate models for different cameras? Am I really safe using the Vx2000 adapter on the Canon?

May 9th, 2003, 04:31 AM	#175
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Some (consumer model) camcorders have a DC votage bias on the mic plug to power some type of external mics. (This is NOT aphantom power.) I believe that Beachteck makes some models to block this voltage. There may be other differences as well.

June 5th, 2003, 11:10 PM	#176
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	MA-100 / MA - 200 Oops, I did it again! I took a line feed from a board and went straight into the XL-1 with the MA-200. It was badly distorted with the menu set at mic and barely audible set at the line setting. The internal menu setting had to be set to MIC att 20 and the audio was perfect.

June 6th, 2003, 04:15 AM	#177
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	What kind of LINE feed? sounds like it may have been consumer line (-10 dBV) rather than professionl (+4 dBU) line. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

June 7th, 2003, 02:57 PM	#178
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Well this has been a pet peeve/concern of mine for a while. As and audio and video/film producer, I've always had to produce "broadcast" quality work with different levels of gear in different environments and on different budgets over the years. Here's my read and recent solution to this ala XL1s. In my recording studios no matter whether working with 24 track analog tape, rack of DA88s, Yamaha 02R digital consoles and Roland VS2480 DAW. I never use the onboard mic pres. Even on dedicated audio consoles, I use Focusrite, Neve, Joe Meek dedicated mic pres. Why...because unless you're spending 6 figures, you're simply not going to get the level of audio preamplification and interface that you can from a dedicated pre (imagine a console with 24 $2000 focusrite input modules and you see what I mean) That said, imagine this logic carried into the world of video cameras...at any level. It's not just the XL1, it's any of the highest end cameras as well: you're simply not going to get high end audio technology, at the level of dedicated units. Then there are the dreaded MA-100 and MA-200. They are not pro units. They use active electronics, they're not high end construction, they're noisy. And of course the headphone system on the Canon is just dumb. Good news... for less than $600 (from Zotz) you can get a beautiful 2 channel Sound Devices MixPre (the guys who designed teh FP24 Shure field mixer...in fact this is that unit). Pristine Lundahl tecnology, metering, slate and tone generator, source and feed monitoring, variable limiting and roll off filters etc. My issue was that the specs of the inherent DV medium should absolutely provide the quality for all but the biggest (feature film) work...and even there, A good engineer could work with it. The problem was/is the inputs...pres...monitoring...metering are an after thought. By throwing away the MA-100, using the MixPre with a pair of XLR to RCA cables with 15db resistors (or just as functional but not as pro/rugged) a stereo mini to RCA cable coming out of the tape out, you can get real quality audio from the XL1, and monitor it for real by feeding the signal through the Mix Pre as well for pre/post monitoring. The bottom line is anyone looking to do real audio for video needs to spend a few hundred dollars more...and that's not a lot to ask. Of course for bigger multi-source shoots you need more technology and a dedicated recorder, but for the vast majority of work being done on these systems...including the high end work, the audio can be just as good as the video. I see the bigger issue to be whether camera moves can accomodate recording directly to the camera. The audio quality itself isn't the issue.

June 19th, 2003, 09:00 AM	#179
Jay Reilly New Boot Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Diego County Posts: 20	Canon - MA 100 question Hi Everyone, I just got my order from B and H photo...and I had a question about the MA 100 I hook it up and attach my new shotgun mic to it and it is coming in Stereo which means that I can only hear it on one channel. Is there a way to change it so that the audio is coming in on both the left and right?? BTW - I am hooking it up on the audio 1 RCA jacks with the littel 1/8 inch jack on the back of the handle. Which adapter is better, the MA 100 or the BechTech DXA - 4C? Thanks Jay __________________ Jay Reilly Oceanside, CA jay@jayreilly.com

June 19th, 2003, 09:04 AM	#180
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	For stereo, I bought a Y cable-- one XLR female to 2 XLR male. You just plug one into each input on the MA100 __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB