It's particularly evident in the cheap "turn off your cell phone" animation that usually plays before the movie in some chains. Since they don't render with motion blur, *all* edges are hard, and split into pairs during motion due to the double-bladed shutter.

Same thing with 30p video displayed as 60i or 60p. 24p is even trickier due to the 2-3 pulldown -- it's like projecting a movie with a shutter that alternates between 2 blade and 3 blade every other frame.

Also, this is what causes the so-called "rainbow effect" with single-chip DLP projectors. Since the RGB images are temporally displaced, while your eye is tracking an object, the non-moving background breaks up -- any bright edges against dark backgrounds break-up with color fringing. It really bothers some people.

///d@

Buying an HD1 or 10
 

I see really good "Buy Now" prices for HD1s on ebay but I don't see any for the HD10. Do you guys have any advice about where I can purcahse an HD10 for below list price?

I'd really appreciate any advice. Thanks!

Light Sensitivity?
 

How does the HD10U compare with a 3 chip camera like the XL-1 in terms of light sensitivity?
How does it compare to other single chippers like the Canon Elura?
Can you turn the gain off?

Thanks,

Jeff

B&H Photo. Just got mine today(HD10). They charged $3270 plus something close to actual shipping cost. Four year warranty for another $150. This is also a reputable company. When you buy from Ebay you never know.

yes, you can turn the gain off. i have only had experience with a gl-1 and a trv-950 (both 3 chip but smaller ccd) which both perform better in low light without gain. the low light on the jvc isn't very good (at least without AGC, i dont use it and i hear it doesnt do much anyway) but i dont think its a problem if you have control of the lighting....i dont think this is a camera for run-n-gun or average use...........my 2 cents anyway.

Is there a way to control audio levels in the HD10?
 

I found out how to put the audio levels display up (no sign of what an adequate dB would be, though, which is bad), but couldn't find a way to control the levels. It didn't seem automatic, since a lav plugged in kept peaking.

Any clues? Totally auto? If the audio can't be controlled, then I give up (again) and may go with a mixer, but that might not do much.

If I still had my XL-1, I'd go with a DAT because I was never happy with the audio going through even a mixer into the XL-1.

heath

The HD10 has AGC which means you don't need to know the dB -- only an indication that your mic is working.

In other words the limiter in the AGC prevents recording too high -- above -6dB. And, the Auto Gain in the AGC will bring up gain if audio is too low.

If you add a mixer it will mix -- but not set exact level. The relative levels will be passed through which is what you want.

The mixer output should be set to NOT overload the camcorder's input circuit -- which means it's output voltage must be for a mic input. This is normally the case for camcorder mounted mixer. (You do not want LINE level output.)

Best way to transfer DV to HDV via HD10
 

I'm trying to figure out how to transfer a DV project from an XL-1 to my HD10 to have it on Hi Def. Is this possible without hardware, etc.?

Thanks,

heath

HD10 software
 

"The biggest problem is that file types cannot be mixed. If the first file in the bin is HD, then only HD files can be added. If it's SD, then only SD files."

I'm not sure why one would ever need to mix these two.


"It does not appear to accept AVI or MPG files at all."

Now this is more serious since one can't repurpose NTSC sources.

And, as you found out -- simply encoding TO the spec doesn't work.

I'm finding the same problem on the OS X side. A seemingly perfect MPEG-2-TS file is rejected for recording by the camcorder -- yet the camcorder decodes it to analog component output.

dave k wrote:
>I think we need a utility co convert between M2T and MP2
>files while maintaining all parameters, without re-compressing.

i was under the impression that when using a utility to demux/de-multiplex an mpeg2-ts into its mpeg2+audio components (like Xmuxer on windows, for instance), it doesnt recompress on doing so.

'Sound & Vision' article
 

Sound & Vision has an article on the 10U. I didn't read the whole article nor did I purchase the magazine. However, I read that the playback lines are 425 in DV, and that in HD mode it records 550 lines to tape. The author of the article is David Ranada. (That can't be a real name.) I just thought I'd mention this.

GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
 

I am reading about these and i just have a lot of questions about this, so i'd really appreciate it if someone who owns one or has worked with one would instant message me some time, my screen name is "PARDON ME QUEEN" so i could ask them a few questions about this camera.

Re: GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Kelly : I am reading about these and i just have a lot of questions about this, so i'd really appreciate it if someone who owns one or has worked with one would instant message me some time, my screen name is "PARDON ME QUEEN" so i could ask them a few questions about this camera. -->>>

If you surf around the board, you will find that a lot of questions will be answered. If you don't find them, post them up and we'll answer them, that way others can learn, too.

heath

When are the new models coming?
 

When are the 3 chip consumer mpeg2 HD cams coming?

When you find out, let us know. :) I doubt any time soon, unless that recent GL2 rebate means something new is coming. Whether it'll be a MPEG2 HD 3-CCD model or something along the lines of a PDX/953 with a 16:9 option, we'll just have to wait and see. Perhaps JVC has something up their sleeves with the recent price drop of their Streamcorder. Why worry? At least 1-chip HD is here today.

Warranties
 

Every now and then someone mentions they bought an extended warranty for $150 for the HD10. Where did you all buy it from and who handles the warranty? Mack Camera?

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!

heath

Yes the B&H Warranty is through MACK.

<<<-- Originally posted by Randall Morton : Yes the B&H Warranty is through MACK. -->>>

Thanks!

heath

JVC GY DV700WUCL Question
 

Does anyone here have experience with this "Cineline" camera? It isn' progressive scan, HD or 24p and yet JVC totes this baby as having the best resolution for film blowups. I would love to hear from people who have hands on experience with this camera or can at least shed some light. My interest is piqued and I might buy one!

It records in the standard-definition DV format on full size or Mini-DV cassettes, but it does have 2/3" CCD's which are native 16x9.

DV Football Documentary ( THE LAST GAME )
 

At the risk of appearing, I don't know- like a shameless self-promoter,
I just thought this community might like to hear about a DV movie
that just got 4 stars from USA TODAY and was called
"the HOOP DREAMS of high school football."

I made it with an XL1, at frame movie mode,
and it turned out great.

Nationwide BLOCKBUSTER VIDEO release in January,
or, you can get it (and the reviews and a TRAILER on quicktime)

at

www.TheLastGame.com

Thanks!

T. Patrick Murray

Hate to be the bearer of bad news...none of the links work on the page.

John


Thanks for the news about the site-

We just had a new one put up...

We will fix it today!


Thanks

My first encounter with the JVC JY-HD1U
 

I went to B&H and saw the JVC HD1 for the first time (never saw an HD10, by the way.) I wasn’t gonna go at first, cause the B&H people said they didn’t even have the camera hooked up to an HD monitor. (never mind the fact that their HDTVs were some twenty feet behind the camera.) Anyway, I stopped in B&H regardless, and saw the HD1 there. I could only look at the image through the camera’s LCD screen, which didn’t really tell me much except for the fact that the camera was obviously true 16:9 and working in progressive mode. So I moved on, and scanned over the cameras that were hooked up to professional monitors, mainly the other prosumer cameras. I gotta say, that PDX10 is sweet, nice image from a strikingly small camera. Then I looked at the DVX100 again, and I was mesmerized by the 24p image coming through the monitor, yup, looks comparable to 16mm, except the whites blowout easier then 16mm. In any case, the DVX100 is definitely king of the prosumer cam hill. So it was time to leave B&H, and low and behold, in a wall mounted glass display, they had the JVC HD1 hooked up to an HDTV LCD screen. The first thing I thought when I saw the image is, “Man! My skin is f@cked up!” I never knew I had so many pock marks and pimples until I saw my face through the JVC HD1 via an HDTV monitor. An old man with slick gray hair even stood in front of me for a bit and I couldn’t believe how fine his hairs were coming through the monitor. (He probably had no idea that a stranger would be looking at his hair roots that day) No question about it, the JVC HD1 is High Def. Now, what I didn’t like, and maybe it was just the HDTV LCD screen itself, was how bad the highlights were blowing out. I gotta say, from what I saw, I didn’t like it. The dynamic range/latitude of this camera looked so bad that it reminded me of those old VHS camcorders, except this VHS like camcorder has High Definition, weird. But, like I said, some of the blown out highlights COULD have been due to the HDTV LCD screen. I don’t like LCD screens at all, by the way, because they do tend to crush blacks and blow out highlights all by themselves. So my conclusion is that I still need to see the JVC HD10 (not the 1) on a CRT HDTV monitor. Also, I believe the HD1 has excessive over sharpening, but if what I saw was just like the HD10, then all those JVC HD Cam people better invest in a good make up artist and A LOT of Black Flags.

"and maybe it was just the HDTV LCD screen itself, was how bad the highlights were blowing out. I gotta say, from what I saw, I didn’t like it. The dynamic range/latitude of this camera"

I agree, that there is a tendency to blow out highlights.

One thing I did notice though, is that this effect is hugely affected by the device you view the image on. Through the vlan player on my computer's lcd, a lot of detail completely washed out in the highlights. However, when viewing the same clip on my HDTV, the effect was much more subtle, even closing in on the margin of being acceptable.

From my experience with the camera, the 3 things you really have to watch and control carefully are focus (the AF is useless), exposure and white balance. All 3 can really be hit or miss and produce massive variances on final image quality- they can be wildly beautiful or downright awful.

General rule of thumb- it is better to slightly underexpose then slightly overexpose.

Experience and patience are probably the 2 best qualities to posess when using this camera.

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun :

General rule of thumb- it is better to slightly underexpose then slightly overexpose.

Experience and patience are probably the 2 best qualities to posess when using this camera. -->>>

It's funny how exactly opposite this is to shooting film where you can overexpose by several stops without worrying too much and spend the whole day doing run-and-gun shooting with good results. Video, the supposedly more convenient format, requires painstaking control of the lighting and contrast ratios and a lot more setup time in general.

Of course, you get to see the results immediately and you can do 30 takes if you want without worrying too much about how much the media is costing you.

I'm practically counting the days until the next CES. ;-)

JVC 1-chip MPEG2 HD cam on display in Vancouver
 

The JVC HD cam is on display at FutureShop on Broadway (Vancouver) - it will be there until the 23rd of August. ---Arseniy

HD10 and Camera Movement
 

So how would the HD10 fair with dolly and jib movement? Would it be a problem?

Personnaly, I used quite a bit of dolly and crane movements with the camera and it holds up very well, pretty much like a miniDV camera. No compression noise seems to appear. Ideally you should keep your shutter at 1/30 or 1/60.

Eric

Converting 30p to 25p
 

Just thinking out loud, but if the HD1 and HD10 encode their HD MPEG using a 6 GOP structure, then it might be fairly easy to convert 30p to 25p by simply reducing the GOP structure to 5 GOP and recalculating the B and P frames from the 5 original I frames per second?

I dont know the original structure but you could go from say 5 of these per sec:

IBBPBB

which give 30fps, to 5 of these per sec

IBBPB

which would give 25fps.

I haven't written an MPEG encoder before, so if this is nonsense let me down nicely :)

Well, it's an interresting suggestion, I think there is a chance that it would do only a drop frame each 6 frames but it's worth the try...

"If you don't intend to try, you might as well not think about it..." Laurient de Medicis

Eric

Dropping a frame per GOP was my first thought for a solution Eric, but I was actually trying to avoid doing that as just dropping a frame would mean a slightly larger temporal gap between two particular frames in every GOP. I was trying to propose a method that would yield smooth motion and maintain temporal integrity between frames (i.e. by recalculating the B and P frames).

I've no idea if it's feasible though?

Frame interpolation using Morphing
 

Does anyone remember the old Michael Jackson music video, Black or White, which was one of the first examples to use morphing technology?

Couldn't this sort of thing be used to interpolate frames in video for conversion to/from 24, 30, 60, etc?

HD1 vs HD10 detail enhancement
 

I have a freeze frame comparison of HD1 to 10 with same subject material (jpg). could someone post it? It's pretty representative of several clips I took while evaluating the cameras at Industrial Video here in Cleveland area. These are crops (no resampling). Everything was auto, so exposure varied somewhat. After reviewing several clips I thought the HD10 might have a slightly lower auto exposure.

Also, while preparing the clips I noticed notches in the histograms of the shots from both cameras. Anybody else seen this? It's like there are certain brightness levels missing - all evenly spaced. I can't really see anything in the picture that I think is a result of this.

I bought the HD10!

I don't see why not. But it would be a huge job unless it was automated, and then it would take serious time. It may be worth it to do that at specific moments when the pull down process leaves a noticable "jerk"

incoming tests between the JVC and the two 24p SD Panas
 

Most people posting in these threads have an intention of using the camera and want to know about it's plusses and minusses. Gather information and make a choice. Not all of them will use the machine in HD in the end (though they may shoot HD). Let's not forget this machine has a very interresting SD 60p, for people making indie DV movies this rocks because you can do incredible progressive slo-mo's. Of course it's the first step to affordable HD, witch means that most of us will have to update all of their gear to take full advantage of the beast, this is a major concern. But still this camera packs an incredible definition when down-converted to SD so it might be usefull for a lot of people.

I will be doing comparative tests between the HD10u, and both the pannasonics DVX-100 and the new SDX900 for the feature film "Pure". I will make a thorough review of that in the comming week. I might as well make editing tests with a Pinnacle Cinewave for HD editing, (depending on availability).

Eric

Sounds good, looking forward to it.

I know a great program for that!!
 

I know a great program for that:
It is called Twixtor, and it does great slowmotion and frame conversions http://www.revisionfx.com/rstwixtor.htm
I have used this software for a long time now, and it is great!
- And Twixtor Pro can do HD aswell!! -
/John Eriksson

IS the SD-mode going to give me slowmotion, if I want to?
 

Can I get a smooth 24fps slowmotion by shooting in the SD mode? I mean because of it´s high framrate (60fps)?

MTV Video Music Awards FILM LOOK
 

I wrote this question on the wrong thread, so I re-ask it here:

The MTV VIDEO MUSIC AWARDS (re-running on MTV all the time)
were the FIRST time I have seen a broadcast (live) that looked
unmistakably and unbelievably like film...

Since it was live, we know it was video.

Was it 24p HD?

I don't think this is a casual issue- I think it's REVOLUTIONARY.

Sure, STAR WARS proved HD can look like film years ago,
but I was startled to realize that the entire future of broadcasting-

from TV news to sitcoms to meaningless awards shows-

will not only be in HD,
but with a wonderful 16mm slightly grainy wonderful look.

It's funny- some Kodak filmstocks look so sharp now (the low speed ones)
that sometimes it can look flat and video like.

And now the cutting edge of video (HD) employs progressive scan (and whatever other enabling technology) AND LOOKS MORE LIKE FILM than some filmstocks themselves!

Anyway- DOES ANYONE KNOW what cameras were used for the MTV show?

The reason? We will all be able to afford such a camera in a few years.

Until then, I am happy with my HD10u.

T. Patrick Murray