Show Your Work 2004

Ned Hamilton · June 21st, 2004, 04:05 AM

Nice piece. Good production values, good editing, good acting. Yes, you should enter it.

Kyle Kauss · June 22nd, 2004, 02:35 PM

New Link the other one won't work

http://24.26.179.122/12%20gauge%20-%20what's%20my%20age%20again%20(cover).wmv

Tony Webber · June 22nd, 2004, 04:29 PM

hello,

I have now uploaded a broadband version of my film. (40mb) there are 3 mirrors and also a 20mb version aswell.

http://www.rockfallfilms.co.uk/italian/media.shtml

It was shot on an XM2 in frame mode. Any feedback is appreciated.

regards

Tony Webber

Charles Papert · June 22nd, 2004, 07:50 PM

Tony,

I think you did a nice job. I liked the performances and it's a fun variation on the "first date" theme.

I feel there are some pacing issues. I think you could apply quite a few nip and tucks to tighten the action and still get the point across, and still keep the feel. I believe you could cut at least a quarter, perhaps even a third of the runing time out of the film and it would play very well.

The title sequence is indeed a bit long for a short film, and seems to function more as a travelogue for Salisbury than anything else (it is pretty!)

Some individual notes that can be easily addressed:

Color correction--Todd's office seems purposely on the green side, which works for the environment. But the first time we see Jody, the scene is overally magenta (made all the more apparent by cross-cutting to Todd's greenish world). By the next scene with her in the bedroom, the color is much more flattering.

Jump cuts on Todd--I will say that this device is a bit overused in short films that I have seen, and rarely do I see it used in a deliberate way that makes sense (as opposed to an editing choice after the fact to save the scene). It just doesn't jibe with the style of the rest of the film, to me. Also, the audio is "popping" on the cut which doesn't help. Try a very short (2 or 3 frame) crossfade at the edits.

Some "too lates, maybe next time" notes:

Overall, I feel like more movement could have livened things up a bit during the endless phone conversations. The dolly shots, when used, seem to always introduce a scene but would have been better put to use during some of the long chatting bits. It's an interesting challenge to have two actors who are mostly on the phone during a short film, but the way to keep things moving is by creating as much variety as possible (overhead shots, profiles, long shots, i.e. different interesting angles, as well as dolly moves here and there). Fortunately the performances are engaging enough to carry much of this through. I'm not suggesting hyper-kinetic filmmaking here, just that it some more movement might give the viewer some more to do.

The one shot from the evening of Todd on the phone in which he is seen in left-facing profile is unfortunately against a black wall with no lighting separation so that his hair blends into the wall. Other than that, I think your DP did a nice, natural job with the lighting.

So my advice would be (if you were to be going back into this film) would be to start chopping out the holes, tightening wherever you can. In a short film, every frame counts. Take Jody dialing Todd back after he leaves a message for instance. We see her start to dial, then an endless closeup of the actual dialing, then her waiting for the connection...it's what we call "shoe leather", the everyday business of stuff that can just be implied rather than shown, in order to keep up the pace. What if we see her reach for the phone, then cut back to Todd as his phone rings and play the beginning of the conversation on him while you hear her say "Hi Todd" etc. Thus you get to register his reaction to her calling back so quickly, which might be a nice choice anyway, and you've cut out maybe 10 seconds of shoe leather.

Outside of all this (hope you don't mind the suggestions), it looks good and you elicited some nice performances (Todd is funny!), so keep it up.

Tony Webber · June 23rd, 2004, 11:12 AM

Charles,

Thanks very much for taking the time to watch it through and give me your comments. Being so close to the project as i am, its hard to see the bad points which are evident from reading your comments.

I did try and colour correct the scene you mention but unfortunately because the scene didnt really contain much colour anyway, it was hard to get it to look much better, (the original shots were even whiter) The bedroom scene seemed to have a lot more colour to it and that definately showed on the screen.

The jump cuts were used to get us out of a sticky situation. Basically the sound on the other shots was unuseable and it meant that we had to use one shot for that piece of dialogue, so we decided to jump cut it a bit rather than just playing it right through.

As for tightening it up, i did cut out 2 scenes from the script prior to shooting and then dropped a further scene from the edit. I dont think the writer would be too happy if i was to cut any more out. All in all it was my first film since graduating and i realise that i have a lot to learn. I have learnt a great deal from making this film, much more than i learnt in my 3 years at university. I can apply what i have learnt on this project to the next one and so on.

I am unable to go back to the edit because all the project and capture files are no longer on the hard drive. so it would mean starting from scratch to really sort the edit out. To be honest i have been involved in this film for quite a while and just want to put it behind me now and move onto a fresh project.

Thanks again for your comments.

Tony

Miguel Lombana · June 23rd, 2004, 05:01 PM

I have a quick question, I have a few clips that I'd like to share and wanted to know if anyone had a place that will allow you to post video for free. I know of several servers that will be more than happy to host your video for a small un-necessary fee, but I was hoping to find something really really really cheap... anyone have a suggestion.

Michael Le · June 23rd, 2004, 10:11 PM

I don't think any of the cuts Charles recommended would be major enough to affect the story and thus the writer. I think he means the lingering type of shots that don't add to the story. By cutting it you're pacing it a little better. The phone dialing was also very noticeable to me as well as the intro sequence. Cutting a little bit of both of those would not affect the story in anyway.

Charles Papert · June 24th, 2004, 12:46 AM

Agreed.

The relationship between writer and director is a complicated thing. But at the end of the day, the bottom line is the film itself. Is it more important to please the writer or please the audience? If the audience enjoys it more as the result of cutting down the material, wouldn't that be a lesson learned for the writer?

I think that a certain amount of this comes down to personal taste, but a very significant factor is that pacing has sped up in recent years. With a few notable exceptions, everything plays faster than it did in many of my favorite films and TV shows even 10 years ago. I'm not talking about obvious fast cutting and frenetic camera work, actually the overall rhythm and pacing of much of what we see and thus our expectations.

Taking time, lingering on a shot or a scene now has to be done for a reason. It's become a powerful choice, not a casual one. With a lighthearted script like this, it doesn't seem to lend itself to langorous pacing (they are both pretty active people, it's just that Todd is physically stuck at his desk).

This is, of course, just my opinion. As one of the producers of the Instant Films festivals, I screen a LOT of short film submissions, and pacing is a common issue. I also worked on the series "Scrubs" for a couple of years, and I learned a tremendous amount about pacing from that experience.

Cheers!

Rob Lohman · June 24th, 2004, 02:31 AM

I thought it was nicely done overall. I agree as well that pacing
may be improved upon a bit. The jump-cutting was not something
I liked either, but the thing I disliked the most was the intro
music. Otherwise a nice little short with an interesting story!

Walter McElroy, Jr. · June 24th, 2004, 03:34 PM

This is the first short I made. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://www.steakmotionpictures.com/P...eb1a%2013k.wmv

Tony Webber · June 24th, 2004, 04:55 PM

Thanks very much everyone for your feedback. Its great to get other peoples views and opinions on a project.

Theres a lot i would do differently on this project if i could turn back time, but thats life.

Here's to bettering myself on the next film

regards

Tony

Alex Melnikov · June 24th, 2004, 06:22 PM

A an auto show teaser/highlights video. Total there are 45 hours of footage that still has to be reviewed and logged and then cut for a real 1 hour film, but this is just some of the cruise and a few key moments from the show.

3:44 mins long and about 19 MBs in size.

http://www.alasm.com/Dubwars_small.wmv

Cheers,
Alex

Robin Davies-Rollinson · June 25th, 2004, 01:43 AM

Just viewed Pepper Steak in work and really enjoyed it!
You've got a good sense of pace in your editing and obviously know how to construct sequences. I can forgive some of the not-quite-well framed shots because of the overall sheer verve of the production.
Great!

Regards,
Robin.

Graham Bernard · June 25th, 2004, 01:59 AM

"This is the first short I made. " . .yeah right ! . . and I'm the Tooth Fairy!

Walter - for a first attempt, that was simply amazing . . Your design and pace and use of FXs was fabulous .. you show all the makings of a great filmaker . . .

I do have crits .. . silly little things ..

There was one illogical "jump" in the timeline - you want I should pick it out?. . Why did you have the "blood", at the end, drip Upwards and not Downwards? .. Of course another way of looking at things .. maybe you meant it .. if so my apologies .. . don't wanna have the Pool Cue remedy ! HAH!

Walter .. MORE please!

Grazie

Robert Kirkpatrick · June 25th, 2004, 08:15 AM

Hi. I have a short film being hosted on Rewind Video that I would like some feedback on. I know there are problems with it, but I don't want to preface the film with them. I'm not really looking for pat-on-the-backs, but constructive criticism or comments that I can take with me to use on my next short. There just isn't much of a film community where I am, and I could really use as much feedback as I can get.

The film is called "Therapy", and it's on the main page of www.rewindvideo.com. (Sorry, I can't give a direct link.) You may have to scroll down a bit. It was shot on a Canon ZR20 with a wide angle lens. (I hope to upgrade my camera soon.) The cheapo mic I used died halfway through production. It was edited and color corrected on Vegas Video 4 and there were some additional effects done in After Effects.

Thanks.

June 22nd, 2004, 04:29 PM	#423
Tony Webber Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: uk Posts: 57	8:30 at the Italian - 12min short - broadband version hello, I have now uploaded a broadband version of my film. (40mb) there are 3 mirrors and also a 20mb version aswell. http://www.rockfallfilms.co.uk/italian/media.shtml It was shot on an XM2 in frame mode. Any feedback is appreciated. regards Tony Webber

June 22nd, 2004, 07:50 PM	#424
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Tony, I think you did a nice job. I liked the performances and it's a fun variation on the "first date" theme. I feel there are some pacing issues. I think you could apply quite a few nip and tucks to tighten the action and still get the point across, and still keep the feel. I believe you could cut at least a quarter, perhaps even a third of the runing time out of the film and it would play very well. The title sequence is indeed a bit long for a short film, and seems to function more as a travelogue for Salisbury than anything else (it is pretty!) Some individual notes that can be easily addressed: Color correction--Todd's office seems purposely on the green side, which works for the environment. But the first time we see Jody, the scene is overally magenta (made all the more apparent by cross-cutting to Todd's greenish world). By the next scene with her in the bedroom, the color is much more flattering. Jump cuts on Todd--I will say that this device is a bit overused in short films that I have seen, and rarely do I see it used in a deliberate way that makes sense (as opposed to an editing choice after the fact to save the scene). It just doesn't jibe with the style of the rest of the film, to me. Also, the audio is "popping" on the cut which doesn't help. Try a very short (2 or 3 frame) crossfade at the edits. Some "too lates, maybe next time" notes: Overall, I feel like more movement could have livened things up a bit during the endless phone conversations. The dolly shots, when used, seem to always introduce a scene but would have been better put to use during some of the long chatting bits. It's an interesting challenge to have two actors who are mostly on the phone during a short film, but the way to keep things moving is by creating as much variety as possible (overhead shots, profiles, long shots, i.e. different interesting angles, as well as dolly moves here and there). Fortunately the performances are engaging enough to carry much of this through. I'm not suggesting hyper-kinetic filmmaking here, just that it some more movement might give the viewer some more to do. The one shot from the evening of Todd on the phone in which he is seen in left-facing profile is unfortunately against a black wall with no lighting separation so that his hair blends into the wall. Other than that, I think your DP did a nice, natural job with the lighting. So my advice would be (if you were to be going back into this film) would be to start chopping out the holes, tightening wherever you can. In a short film, every frame counts. Take Jody dialing Todd back after he leaves a message for instance. We see her start to dial, then an endless closeup of the actual dialing, then her waiting for the connection...it's what we call "shoe leather", the everyday business of stuff that can just be implied rather than shown, in order to keep up the pace. What if we see her reach for the phone, then cut back to Todd as his phone rings and play the beginning of the conversation on him while you hear her say "Hi Todd" etc. Thus you get to register his reaction to her calling back so quickly, which might be a nice choice anyway, and you've cut out maybe 10 seconds of shoe leather. Outside of all this (hope you don't mind the suggestions), it looks good and you elicited some nice performances (Todd is funny!), so keep it up. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

June 23rd, 2004, 05:01 PM	#426
Miguel Lombana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Litchfield Park, AZ (W/of Phoenix) Posts: 502	Place to post? I have a quick question, I have a few clips that I'd like to share and wanted to know if anyone had a place that will allow you to post video for free. I know of several servers that will be more than happy to host your video for a small un-necessary fee, but I was hoping to find something really really really cheap... anyone have a suggestion. __________________ Miguel Lombana http://www.miguellombana.com & http://www.phoenixhamradio.com

June 24th, 2004, 12:46 AM	#428
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Agreed. The relationship between writer and director is a complicated thing. But at the end of the day, the bottom line is the film itself. Is it more important to please the writer or please the audience? If the audience enjoys it more as the result of cutting down the material, wouldn't that be a lesson learned for the writer? I think that a certain amount of this comes down to personal taste, but a very significant factor is that pacing has sped up in recent years. With a few notable exceptions, everything plays faster than it did in many of my favorite films and TV shows even 10 years ago. I'm not talking about obvious fast cutting and frenetic camera work, actually the overall rhythm and pacing of much of what we see and thus our expectations. Taking time, lingering on a shot or a scene now has to be done for a reason. It's become a powerful choice, not a casual one. With a lighthearted script like this, it doesn't seem to lend itself to langorous pacing (they are both pretty active people, it's just that Todd is physically stuck at his desk). This is, of course, just my opinion. As one of the producers of the Instant Films festivals, I screen a LOT of short film submissions, and pacing is a common issue. I also worked on the series "Scrubs" for a couple of years, and I learned a tremendous amount about pacing from that experience. Cheers! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

June 24th, 2004, 02:31 AM	#429
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I thought it was nicely done overall. I agree as well that pacing may be improved upon a bit. The jump-cutting was not something I liked either, but the thing I disliked the most was the intro music. Otherwise a nice little short with an interesting story! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 21st, 2004, 04:05 AM	#421
Ned Hamilton New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cary NC Posts: 6	Nice piece. Good production values, good editing, good acting. Yes, you should enter it.

June 22nd, 2004, 02:35 PM	#422
Kyle Kauss Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 114	New Link the other one won't work http://24.26.179.122/12%20gauge%20-%20what's%20my%20age%20again%20(cover).wmv

June 23rd, 2004, 11:12 AM	#425
Tony Webber Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: uk Posts: 57	Charles, Thanks very much for taking the time to watch it through and give me your comments. Being so close to the project as i am, its hard to see the bad points which are evident from reading your comments. I did try and colour correct the scene you mention but unfortunately because the scene didnt really contain much colour anyway, it was hard to get it to look much better, (the original shots were even whiter) The bedroom scene seemed to have a lot more colour to it and that definately showed on the screen. The jump cuts were used to get us out of a sticky situation. Basically the sound on the other shots was unuseable and it meant that we had to use one shot for that piece of dialogue, so we decided to jump cut it a bit rather than just playing it right through. As for tightening it up, i did cut out 2 scenes from the script prior to shooting and then dropped a further scene from the edit. I dont think the writer would be too happy if i was to cut any more out. All in all it was my first film since graduating and i realise that i have a lot to learn. I have learnt a great deal from making this film, much more than i learnt in my 3 years at university. I can apply what i have learnt on this project to the next one and so on. I am unable to go back to the edit because all the project and capture files are no longer on the hard drive. so it would mean starting from scratch to really sort the edit out. To be honest i have been involved in this film for quite a while and just want to put it behind me now and move onto a fresh project. Thanks again for your comments. Tony

June 23rd, 2004, 10:11 PM	#427
Michael Le New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 22	I don't think any of the cuts Charles recommended would be major enough to affect the story and thus the writer. I think he means the lingering type of shots that don't add to the story. By cutting it you're pacing it a little better. The phone dialing was also very noticeable to me as well as the intro sequence. Cutting a little bit of both of those would not affect the story in anyway.

June 24th, 2004, 03:34 PM	#430
Walter McElroy, Jr. Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: St. Louis Posts: 32	Pepper Steak - Check it out This is the first short I made. Check it out and let me know what you think. http://www.steakmotionpictures.com/P...eb1a%2013k.wmv

June 24th, 2004, 04:55 PM	#431
Tony Webber Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: uk Posts: 57	Thanks very much everyone for your feedback. Its great to get other peoples views and opinions on a project. Theres a lot i would do differently on this project if i could turn back time, but thats life. Here's to bettering myself on the next film regards Tony

June 24th, 2004, 06:22 PM	#432
Alex Melnikov Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: none Posts: 35	Dubwars VW/Audi show highlights video A an auto show teaser/highlights video. Total there are 45 hours of footage that still has to be reviewed and logged and then cut for a real 1 hour film, but this is just some of the cruise and a few key moments from the show. 3:44 mins long and about 19 MBs in size. http://www.alasm.com/Dubwars_small.wmv Cheers, Alex

June 25th, 2004, 01:43 AM	#433
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Just viewed Pepper Steak in work and really enjoyed it! You've got a good sense of pace in your editing and obviously know how to construct sequences. I can forgive some of the not-quite-well framed shots because of the overall sheer verve of the production. Great! Regards, Robin.

June 25th, 2004, 01:59 AM	#434
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	"This is the first short I made. " . .yeah right ! . . and I'm the Tooth Fairy! Walter - for a first attempt, that was simply amazing . . Your design and pace and use of FXs was fabulous .. you show all the makings of a great filmaker . . . I do have crits .. . silly little things .. There was one illogical "jump" in the timeline - you want I should pick it out?. . Why did you have the "blood", at the end, drip Upwards and not Downwards? .. Of course another way of looking at things .. maybe you meant it .. if so my apologies .. . don't wanna have the Pool Cue remedy ! HAH! Walter .. MORE please! Grazie

June 25th, 2004, 08:15 AM	#435
Robert Kirkpatrick Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 199	Short Film Feedback Wanted Hi. I have a short film being hosted on Rewind Video that I would like some feedback on. I know there are problems with it, but I don't want to preface the film with them. I'm not really looking for pat-on-the-backs, but constructive criticism or comments that I can take with me to use on my next short. There just isn't much of a film community where I am, and I could really use as much feedback as I can get. The film is called "Therapy", and it's on the main page of www.rewindvideo.com. (Sorry, I can't give a direct link.) You may have to scroll down a bit. It was shot on a Canon ZR20 with a wide angle lens. (I hope to upgrade my camera soon.) The cheapo mic I used died halfway through production. It was edited and color corrected on Vegas Video 4 and there were some additional effects done in After Effects. Thanks.