PDX10 -- various questions

Matt Stahley · June 5th, 2005, 08:29 PM

Experimented with my PDX a little this weekend though not as much as I had hoped for. But from the footage i did shoot (mostly close ups of some large ants crawling on some flowers and other nature) the picture is excellent. Shot 16:9 with CP sharpness -3 and AE shift -2 beautiful. I think I may even prefer the image over my VX though I have not shot any low light yet.Could be that im just excited about a new toy :)
The audio is excellent and it blows my VX w/ Beachtek DXA8 away. I am using a AKG CK93 hyper and I cranked the gain all the way up and did not detect any noise in my phones. Even the heaphone output is very quiet unlike the noisy VX circuit. The cam is a little hard to handle and i wish it had a top handle but i plan on making one soon that will attach to the tripod mount. I now also understand the need for ND filters with the PDX. I have none yet but when I tried to shoot sunset today the iris pretty much closed and i understand the effects of the vertical smearing which i got with the sun though it didnt look bad but i can see where it could be a problem for some folks. All in all this cam is awesome and even though they are bringing new technology to the table woth the HDV etc. I wont be switching for a while and from the looks of things to come this may be the last small pro 3CCD cam we see from Sony??

Boyd Ostroff · June 5th, 2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Stahley

I now also understand the need for ND filters with the PDX. I have none yet but when I tried to shoot sunset today the iris pretty much closed

Actually the PDX-10 has several internal ND filters although Sony has never documented them. Put your camera in manual mode, shine a flashlight into the lens, and turn the exposure wheel. If you look at the right angle you'll see the ND filters drop into the optical path.

So in fact, the iris wasn't closing all the way down, the camera was dropping in its ND filters. The idea is to force the camera to always shoot within the "sweet spot" of the lens. If you're shooting in auto mode toward the sunset, I suspect shutter speed is more of an issue with vertical smear. When the camera can't get the needed exposure between using the iris and ND filters, it raises the shutter speed. High shutter speeds aggravate the smear problem. If you must use auto mode, turn off AUTO SHUTTER in the custom presets.

I do think an screw in ND filter or two can be handy however, when you want to force a large lens opening under bright conditions.

Matt Stahley · June 5th, 2005, 09:22 PM

Thanks Boyd. Actually I was shooting in manual mode 1/60 shutter. I use the AE shift CP because I like to expose in auto then adjust manually from there. Im gonna keep with the experimentation though. The deal with the sun was I had it in the upper left side of the frame and I wanted to capture the orangeness but in order to do so without it being completely blown was I had to crank the exposure down to about 1 click from closed. the results still looked good but it pushed the surrounding trees to black and it looked like a night scene. Would an external ND help in this situation? I may be dreaming but I thought for sure Ive shot the sun in its "orange" right before sundown with the vx and could get a decent balance between the sun and surroundings without the sun being completely blown(100ire zebra covered). hope this makes sense.

Sean McHenry · July 1st, 2005, 03:27 PM

If you want basically a larger Matte Box, look at the Cinetactics site. I bought the whole kit and it works great. Carry pouches, folds flat, has filter holders.

SMM

Edward Croteau · August 15th, 2005, 01:17 PM

Hey Folks,
I've got a wireless lav system w/ a stereo mini (1/8") out jack that I'd like to use w/ my pdx10. How do people interface the two? mixers? a stero mini to xlr y cable? I don't see any kind of line-in inputs in the manual except the video/stereo mini to rca. Has anybody tried that w/ any sucess? Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.
--Edward Croteau
Red Quill Productions

Matt Stahley · August 15th, 2005, 01:53 PM

edward there is a 1/8" mic jack on the front of the camera near the cams built in mic.

Edward Croteau · August 16th, 2005, 11:56 AM

Thanks Matt,
I feel a little silly now, but I appreciate the help. I did finally manage to find a reference in the sony manual too, though it took a while for me to locate. Thanks again.
--Edward Croteau

Boyd Ostroff · August 16th, 2005, 03:13 PM

I've never tried that, but it is still active when the XLR box is installed,? Or are they mutually exclusive?

Edward Croteau · August 16th, 2005, 04:16 PM

It appears that the 1/8" jack overrides the xlr hotshoe. Actually the xlr settings disappear from the menu when you plug into the 1/8" jack. The only problem is that it seems to be a mono jack (over left & right channels). When you go to adjust the levels, it says channels 1, 2 (combined). I'm not sure if there is any way around that, but it sure would be nice. There's some more info on pages 117-8 of the manual. It looks as though you can use the y cable/rca cable from the audio/video jack.
--Edward Croteau

Ronald Lee · August 18th, 2005, 10:55 PM

Hi,

Is anyone here in Vancouver, Canada, with the PDX10? Or know of anyone?

Juan Parra · August 19th, 2005, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Ng

Hi,

Is anyone here in Vancouver, Canada, with the PDX10? Or know of anyone?

Yes I do.
What do you want to do?

Nevin Aragam · August 30th, 2005, 06:12 PM

Hey,
I'm not in vancouver but i'm from there. So i realize this is a wasted post, but juan... haha tuchee on your reply:
"What do you want to do?"
Haha.
Either of you guys make it up to whistler this last weekend for the bike contest? There were some sweet camera rigs there i hear.
I cant imagine how much fu it would be to film with the PDX in Vancouver.
Later.
Nevin

Matt Helme · September 5th, 2005, 03:16 PM

I own a Sony PDX-10 and was wondering about the f-stop callibration.If i open the lens once does that eual a full stop or half or 1/3?

Boyd Ostroff · September 5th, 2005, 04:07 PM

Matt: I moved your post to the PDX-10 forum since this camera is a little unusual in how it treats f-stops. Unfortunately there is no simple answer to your question. Even in full manual mode you are not truly controlling the iris directly. This is because the camera uses several undocumented internal ND filters. The idea is to force the camera to always stay within the "sweet spot" of the lens, so no matter how much you turn the wheel the actual f-stop never drops very far below f4.8 (IIRC). After getting to that point the camera adds more and more ND filtration as you turn the wheel.

As you turn the whell to open the F-stop you reach a point where the iris opens all the way (the actual f-stop will vary depending on how far in you've zoomed). Turning the wheel further starts adding gain in manual mode until you reach the maximum of +18 dB.

But the simplistic answer to your question is, each click of the exposure wheel has an effect similar to 1/2 f-stop. However this effect might be acheived either by adding a denser ND filter, or by boosting gain by +3 dB.

To understand at which point the iris is fully open, turn the wheel until the exposure is at the maximum (bright) position. This will be the +18dB point. Now turn the wheel to lessen exposure and count each click as you do:

+15 dB
+12 dB
+9 dB
+6 dB
+3 dB
0 dB

You have now reached the maxium iris opening - take note of the relative position on the exposure slider in the viewfinder for future reference. Now each successive click will be 1/2 f-stop until you reach f4.8 and the ND filters kick in.

See also the following:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=31646
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45815

Tom Hardwick · September 6th, 2005, 12:16 PM

Boyd's right (he always is). Each little 'click' of the exposure wheel dials in half a stop of exposure difference, either up or down.

Thing to remember is that the lens itself loses a stop and a half as you zoom from wide to telephoto. So if you're getting the correct exposure in a room using full tele (f/2.8) and max gain (+18 dB) and then zoom to full wide, the camera should revert to max aperture and +6 dB of gain up.

Note that some cameras don't do this, they stay at f2.8 as you zoom back even though faster apertures exist at the wide-angle end of the zoom. It would be difficult to test this with the PDX as its replay readout is so unreliable.

tom.

June 5th, 2005, 08:29 PM	#211
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	First impressions Experimented with my PDX a little this weekend though not as much as I had hoped for. But from the footage i did shoot (mostly close ups of some large ants crawling on some flowers and other nature) the picture is excellent. Shot 16:9 with CP sharpness -3 and AE shift -2 beautiful. I think I may even prefer the image over my VX though I have not shot any low light yet.Could be that im just excited about a new toy :) The audio is excellent and it blows my VX w/ Beachtek DXA8 away. I am using a AKG CK93 hyper and I cranked the gain all the way up and did not detect any noise in my phones. Even the heaphone output is very quiet unlike the noisy VX circuit. The cam is a little hard to handle and i wish it had a top handle but i plan on making one soon that will attach to the tripod mount. I now also understand the need for ND filters with the PDX. I have none yet but when I tried to shoot sunset today the iris pretty much closed and i understand the effects of the vertical smearing which i got with the sun though it didnt look bad but i can see where it could be a problem for some folks. All in all this cam is awesome and even though they are bringing new technology to the table woth the HDV etc. I wont be switching for a while and from the looks of things to come this may be the last small pro 3CCD cam we see from Sony??

July 1st, 2005, 03:27 PM	#214
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	If you want basically a larger Matte Box, look at the Cinetactics site. I bought the whole kit and it works great. Carry pouches, folds flat, has filter holders. SMM __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com

August 15th, 2005, 01:17 PM	#215
Edward Croteau New Boot Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lincoln, NH Posts: 10	PDX-10 to Lav stereo mini Hey Folks, I've got a wireless lav system w/ a stereo mini (1/8") out jack that I'd like to use w/ my pdx10. How do people interface the two? mixers? a stero mini to xlr y cable? I don't see any kind of line-in inputs in the manual except the video/stereo mini to rca. Has anybody tried that w/ any sucess? Any recommendations? Thanks in advance. --Edward Croteau Red Quill Productions

August 18th, 2005, 10:55 PM	#220
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Anyone here in Vancouver? Hi, Is anyone here in Vancouver, Canada, with the PDX10? Or know of anyone?

August 30th, 2005, 06:12 PM	#222
Nevin Aragam Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Knoxville Tennessee Posts: 37	Hey, I'm not in vancouver but i'm from there. So i realize this is a wasted post, but juan... haha tuchee on your reply: "What do you want to do?" Haha. Either of you guys make it up to whistler this last weekend for the bike contest? There were some sweet camera rigs there i hear. I cant imagine how much fu it would be to film with the PDX in Vancouver. Later. Nevin __________________ That'll do pig, that'll do

June 5th, 2005, 09:22 PM	#213
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	Thanks Boyd. Actually I was shooting in manual mode 1/60 shutter. I use the AE shift CP because I like to expose in auto then adjust manually from there. Im gonna keep with the experimentation though. The deal with the sun was I had it in the upper left side of the frame and I wanted to capture the orangeness but in order to do so without it being completely blown was I had to crank the exposure down to about 1 click from closed. the results still looked good but it pushed the surrounding trees to black and it looked like a night scene. Would an external ND help in this situation? I may be dreaming but I thought for sure Ive shot the sun in its "orange" right before sundown with the vx and could get a decent balance between the sun and surroundings without the sun being completely blown(100ire zebra covered). hope this makes sense.

August 15th, 2005, 01:53 PM	#216
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	edward there is a 1/8" mic jack on the front of the camera near the cams built in mic.

August 16th, 2005, 11:56 AM	#217
Edward Croteau New Boot Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lincoln, NH Posts: 10	Thanks Matt, I feel a little silly now, but I appreciate the help. I did finally manage to find a reference in the sony manual too, though it took a while for me to locate. Thanks again. --Edward Croteau

August 16th, 2005, 03:13 PM	#218
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,788	I've never tried that, but it is still active when the XLR box is installed,? Or are they mutually exclusive?

August 16th, 2005, 04:16 PM	#219
Edward Croteau New Boot Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lincoln, NH Posts: 10	It appears that the 1/8" jack overrides the xlr hotshoe. Actually the xlr settings disappear from the menu when you plug into the 1/8" jack. The only problem is that it seems to be a mono jack (over left & right channels). When you go to adjust the levels, it says channels 1, 2 (combined). I'm not sure if there is any way around that, but it sure would be nice. There's some more info on pages 117-8 of the manual. It looks as though you can use the y cable/rca cable from the audio/video jack. --Edward Croteau

September 5th, 2005, 03:16 PM	#223
Matt Helme New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South Amboy New Jersey Posts: 22	F-Stop? I own a Sony PDX-10 and was wondering about the f-stop callibration.If i open the lens once does that eual a full stop or half or 1/3?

September 5th, 2005, 04:07 PM	#224
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,788	Matt: I moved your post to the PDX-10 forum since this camera is a little unusual in how it treats f-stops. Unfortunately there is no simple answer to your question. Even in full manual mode you are not truly controlling the iris directly. This is because the camera uses several undocumented internal ND filters. The idea is to force the camera to always stay within the "sweet spot" of the lens, so no matter how much you turn the wheel the actual f-stop never drops very far below f4.8 (IIRC). After getting to that point the camera adds more and more ND filtration as you turn the wheel. As you turn the whell to open the F-stop you reach a point where the iris opens all the way (the actual f-stop will vary depending on how far in you've zoomed). Turning the wheel further starts adding gain in manual mode until you reach the maximum of +18 dB. But the simplistic answer to your question is, each click of the exposure wheel has an effect similar to 1/2 f-stop. However this effect might be acheived either by adding a denser ND filter, or by boosting gain by +3 dB. To understand at which point the iris is fully open, turn the wheel until the exposure is at the maximum (bright) position. This will be the +18dB point. Now turn the wheel to lessen exposure and count each click as you do: +15 dB +12 dB +9 dB +6 dB +3 dB 0 dB You have now reached the maxium iris opening - take note of the relative position on the exposure slider in the viewfinder for future reference. Now each successive click will be 1/2 f-stop until you reach f4.8 and the ND filters kick in. See also the following: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=31646 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45815

September 6th, 2005, 12:16 PM	#225
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Boyd's right (he always is). Each little 'click' of the exposure wheel dials in half a stop of exposure difference, either up or down. Thing to remember is that the lens itself loses a stop and a half as you zoom from wide to telephoto. So if you're getting the correct exposure in a room using full tele (f/2.8) and max gain (+18 dB) and then zoom to full wide, the camera should revert to max aperture and +6 dB of gain up. Note that some cameras don't do this, they stay at f2.8 as you zoom back even though faster apertures exist at the wide-angle end of the zoom. It would be difficult to test this with the PDX as its replay readout is so unreliable. tom.