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If he doesn't charge for his own work how does he expect to make a living? Also, if the artist in question has written songs for almost every major singer out there then they should be raking in the money from royalties, and hence have no problem paying someone to make a video!
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This sounds like most other business models to me. These kinds of folks always leave it open ended and very general so they can escape. None of what they describe is new or unique. $12 million in revenue in two years?
"A 15% finder’s fee will be paid for referrals that lead to qualified private investors in a new TV network. 24-hour television programming will launch on the World Wide Web as well as in Atlanta, Georgia, using an innovative and groundbreaking entertainment model. The company’s management team consists of professionals, who, combined, have well over 100 years of direct experience in the fields of television, movies, technology, business management, music, finance, marketing, law, and sales. The Company is at the start-up stage of business and expects to earn $12 million in revenue in 2006 - 2007." |
What do you think?
This one's up in the air. It could be totally legitimate or maybe a tactic to get a free video camera or cameras. If I was a displaced family, I would want food, room with shower, and money, not a video camera. Hmmmm?
"I'm working on a documentary about displaced Katrina survivors from New Orleans. One of our families is having a big reunion this Sunday in Atlanta, and I would like to have some footage of the event. The film is as of yet self-funded, so if you would be able to do it for a very cheap rate that would be much appreciated. We're also looking for people to donate or sell cheaply their camcorders so that we can give it to the families. I can point you to links for this project and past projects so that you can verify its legitimacy! Thank you." |
here is one, out of the craiglist:
Reply to: comm-119173590@craigslist.org Date: 2005-12-19, 3:56AM PST Hi I am an experienced Videographer offering special no budget video package to shoot your band at your next show on DV video and burn it onto a DVD for only $50.00. You can use it to stream on your webpage, sell at shows, or send to bookers for more gigs or even use to it critique your live show. If interested email me this is in or around SF/East Bay no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests |
He either sells lemonade at 25¢ a glass on the corner or he's working at MickyD's during the day. Maybe send him an email back asking how much he's selling the camera for because he probably can't even make the credit card bill let alone put food on the table. He's gotta be within walking distance to the club too since he certainly can't afford cab fare, gas/parking if it's his own car (how's he paying for the car?).
BTW I've been underbid by people doing corporate work at that rate! Hi I am an experienced Videographer offering special no budget video package to shoot your band at your next show on DV video and burn it onto a DVD for only $50.00. You can use it to stream on your webpage, sell at shows, or send to bookers for more gigs or even use to it critique your live show. If interested email me this is in or around SF/East Bay |
Need amazing Intern for Entertainment Show
Yet another tell me why you're good enough to work with me for free post. This person has won an Emmy but won't even provide their identity.
"I need an intern that "get's it". School credit fine/no pay. If you want a career in the TV business and are willing to do loads of research, book celebs, and are not easily intimidated--I want to talk to you! I don't care if you go/went to Harvard....be passionate about TV and the entertainment industry. MUST be resourceful. Need someone next week for a few months---possibly long term--if you knock my socks off possible future paying position. I worked as an Intern for a year for free and ended up winning an Emmy. Let me know why I should give you this opportunity. Be brief. Compensation: Intern/School Credit" |
Craig's List Rules - what a ballyhoo!!!
If these folks actually followed their own rules, this thread probably wouldn't exist. I couldn't believe this when I saw it. Who's not doing their job screening their posts?
Craig's List Rules https://post.craigslist.org/atl/J?guide=yes |
I still say free internships for college credit are not suitable for this thread, but whatever.
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"Originally Posted by Josh Bass
I still say free internships for college credit are not suitable for this thread, but whatever." "What does that have to do with anything?" Um. . . 'I need an intern that "get's it". School credit fine/no pay' 'Compensation: Intern/School Credit' All I'm saying is if the thread is about "ridiculous job offers", and unpaid internships for college credit are not ridiculous, then. . . |
Josh, I don't know how else to put it. The majority of other posters in this thread get it and seemingly so did you until recently going down this path........ to the dark side. You will NEVER fully understand, and can't, until you are in your late 20's and then 30's looking around with no money after you have gotten NOWHERE working for f*****g FREE!! But you'll have plenty of EXPERIENCE won't you?!!
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But, again, the guy was posting for an internship for college credit. Back when I was in college, I was made to understand that most internships were unpaid, and lasted several months. I did two, one at a fox affiliate, the other at a UPN affiliate, and several production companies in town offered them (I didn't do these), and they were all unpaid.
It's one thing if the whole "unpaid internship for college credit" thing is bullsquash, but I always heard that was "how it was", for the most part--interns don't get paid (usually). So ALL I'M SAYING is that I don't why that PARTICULAR AD is so ridiculous. Not trying to invalidate all the posts in the thread, just a few that don't seem that outlandish to me. The ad poster didn't ask the potential intern to bring his/her own camera, editing gear, or anything else, didn't ask they already know everything in the world about something they're supposed to be interning in, all they asked for was for the potential intern to put in his/her time and not be flaky. I seriously don't what's so unreasonable. As for "tell me why I should let you work for free," I think a lot of places do that--ask that the applicants write some sort of essay, so as to weed out those who think it's a free ride. Sorry we disagree on this one, but calm down. |
As you gain more experience with these deceiving fools, only then will you truly understand what I and many others are feeling. These types prey on young people for a good reason, do I have to tell you why? You see, with more experience dealing with these types of folks, I/we see patterns of behavior that the inexperienced cannot see because, well, THEY HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED THEM YET!! I don't know what your situation is, but I guarandamntee you that if you were totally on your own, paying for 100K+ for gear, you would see things a whole lot differently. The very fact that I'm having to tell you this shows your inexperience and the gap. I don't mean experience in a bad way either, we are all inexperienced until we learn.
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So you're saying there's no way this poster is from a legit production company, and this internship would do anything at all for the intern?
Look, I'll just stop here. We seem to not be at all on the same page, for whatever reason, and I'm just getting your blood pressure up. So I'll say no more on this particular post. Until the next post I find "not so ridiculous." Later. |
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All I'm saying is that I have alot of experience and have been exposed to all sorts of situations and proposals and still have not seen it all. All of this knowledge came with time, which you WILL eventually learn, grasshopper. I talk to others with much more experience than me to learn about what to look for and have learned alot that way. I will admit that I have fallen for a few of these nice, innocent posts before only to get screwed after trusting them. Some people specialize in deception. Most legitimate employers even internships provide contact information and are very specific about what they want. Most shady people are very vague and don't reveal any specifics so you can't check up on them. Why do you think that is?
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I had a situation last spring where someone wanted to produce a children's television pilot. She had a finished script and talked a goooood game. We met and discussed production gear needs to get it done. We scouted the locations and I gave her a proposal. She said that was fine and we would roll in a few days. Well, I never got my deposit check for the gear rentals so I called her because it was just a few days before we rolled. Josh, the whole time she NEVER had the money!! I spent all that time planning, scouting, making a proposal and putting together cameras, jib, grip/electric and lighting packages all FOR NOTHING! But her post was so straight forward and she was so nice. She blamed it on her "investors", what investors? Either you have the money or you don't. She told us beforehand that she already had the money at least for production. These types of people are mentally ill and live in a fantasy world. They want to feel important so bad that they will go through the motions to get that feeling. She damaged her reputation more than she knows. Ironically, that was a valuable learning experience for me to be able to recognize the warning signs of bad projects in the future and it has paid off.
Bad projects don't stop with me, the UPM in some cases. It makes me look bad with the rental houses and the crew. If you constantly reserve gear and then cancel because of these risky projects, you could lose deposits and/or your credibility for making business decisions about projects. Also, in some cases if you reserve a crew and you cancel, depending on terms, you could be charged cacellation fees and in some cases full day rates to cover their lost work days. You need to experience some of this first hand and then come back and tell me to take it easy on these folks. |
With 25 years under my belt in this industry, going from messanger to senior editor and video engineer at some big post facilities as well as boutiques and getting my own small business off the ground . . . I agree with James completely.
I know how PROFESSIONAL facilities handle this and see the lies wannabes make. I see the same red flags James saw. Internships usually means being MENTORED by someone with more experience NOT taking a lead roll (at least not until you're trained). College Credit means the SCHOOL will approve the credit. You can't simply offer it. The facility or person offering the internship should have a track record including their work and promotion from within to paying positions. |
See, nobody said that.
Your one comment on the ad was something about "another person asking you to prove why you should have the privilege of working for free", so I thought that was your gripe. Now, if you'd simply said, "look at this obvious loser who's acting like his internship would be worth anything when he's clearly not a legit production company and has no idea what he's talking about, as he's not provided a company name nor any contact info", that would be different. But I'll continue to police the thread, and judge ridiculousness as I see fit. Until then, my work is done *flies away* |
James Emory!
You are hereby charged with a double, triple and QUADRUPLE post all in the last two pages of this thread. I hereby dock you a combined total of NINE gold stars from the class list, and give you this pointy cap to wear for the rest of the semester. Anyway, I tried figuring out what you two (Jams and Josh) were discussing, but then I got bored, so uh.... lets get back on topic. :) |
Whether it's a paid position or an internship, either way it's an exchange of value or at least is supposed to be an exchange of value. I don't see any difference. Ten years ago we had a college intern at my production studio in San Marcos and it worked out great. It was listed as unpaid but we paid the guy whenever possible, "blue sky" money, even if it was just $50 or $100 here and there, for a 12-hours-per-week kind of deal. I cringe when I read those "tell me why you should intern for me for free" ads.
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I know, I know.
Cringe away, but, as an example, VT2, a well-known Houston production company, offered an internship, and I believe they also asked that you tell them why you were worthy. |
Sorry, my non-video related company ALWAYS pays interns. AND there are very strict requirements from the university on how we create intership positions so that they do count for credit. That post is ridiculous without references.
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Well, it finally happened, Being from Atlanta and having many cheap friends, combined with James' love for this thread I knew it would happen sooner or later. But I believe I know the poster of the "emmy winner" thread, I wonder if it was a regional emmy.
OH and did anyone catch this one? Um All he needs is your address, name and SS#!!!!! That's just so wrong. I wonder if the rest of the money will be raised via credit card.... Reply to: XXX@XXX.com Date: 2005-12-19, 4:57PM EST Hi, my name is Petie. I am an NYU student from Atlanta and I am working on a music video/short film project for this summer. I am trying to assemble a crew at the moment. I would like to employ all student film makers if possible. i thought it would be cool if we were all students working on the project, you know, help each other out. I am looking for grips, electricians, ac's, the works. So please send me an email with your name, address so I can mail you further information, ss# for legal and organization purposes and then a casual resume of work and film experience. Also include the position(s) you would like, duh. I currently have a little less than $5000 put away for this, so it will be paid. I am hoping to raise more by the summer, but we'll see. I am also talking with Mos Def's representation about having him play the lead. But that's not at all a done deal-everybody needs a dream though, right? Well thanks to anybody who follows up on this. Please ask any questions or voice any concerns. Thanks -Petie this is in or around Atlanta-all over no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests Compensation: unknown-but there will be pay |
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Hmmm, I had a dog named Petie (Petey) that ran away. He was a complete terror with a mind of his own, not sure he could make it all the way to Atlanta though. |
Ok, I know this isn't all that ridiculous, but look:
"Hello I am 28 year old who just moved from south cali to NYC and now I am looking to start finding my posse of filmmaking buddies. I have made various short films as well as a feature film. However I am now interested in shooting commercials and music videos. So I am looking for a D.P. out here who appreciates the the visual work of Mark Romanek, Jake Scott and Dariusz Wolski to name a few. So here is the deal, I am looking to make some videos for free or lil money for bands so this leaves me paying-out of pocket for everything, including you. So all I can pay is 125 a day and if you have your own camera then I can go up to 200 a day. More than likely this will-be one to two day shoots. And any preproduction where you don't shoot but work I can pay 25 bucks a day with or without camera. Sound fair for non-profit job? I want to shoot three videos in the next two months, so hopefully this will all be with the same DP. I produce, edit and direct so the crew will most likely just be me, you and a make-up/hair person and a intern(if we are lucky). So of course if we rock these videos out, this can lead to work for us. I have a few good contacts in the music video world, but need something to show them. So if this sounds like something you want to engage in, hit me up with your work. Please send a link to your online portfolio or be willing to send me a DVD of your work. I must be able to have seen your work. If you are a student that's cool, but just please have something to show. I come from the Ridley Scott school of things, so please be dramatic and classy." As someone kindly already pointed out on the NY craiglist crew forum, the crew of director, DP, intern, and hair/makeup person ain't gonna cut it for doing something that looks really polished, unless you take a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllly long time. You just can't move fast/efficiently with that few people. So he's gonna pay people to make a product that's inferior to what he wants (referring to the DP influences he mentioned). That's my effort for the week. I think. |
Now, aren't most free labor music videos for up and coming music video artists?
"....that can also act as a production manager and deal with money" - Did they say money? I wonder if that producer will be asking, why can't they pay me some of that money that I will be managing for free! If he's slick enough, he can make sure he gets paid. Ha ha! "Need experienced Producer looking for more experience and a fun job! This is a very low budget gig with high profile on the rise industry people. The director is Wade J. Robson. You can google his name and find out all about him. Also check out iquestionmark.com to see his directorial work. This is a hi def 2 day music video shoot in the bay area in the middle of January 2006. Need a producer that can also act as a production manager and deal with money, permits, equipment, etc. Not looking for major credits, just experience. Could even be good film school experience. Producer must know San Francisco well. This music video is for City Boyz Music artist "Champ Bailey." http://myspace.com/champbailey He is a rising bay area based rap star. Please send resume/bio's asap! Compensation: We will be able to pay something but this is mainly for someone looking for experience and interested in working with the people involved. " |
"Do you have skills?
"LOOKING FOR THAT EXPOSURE IN THE ACTING FIELD"? Local company seeking an exprience person, to shoot a 30 second commercial 3 to 4 hour job. INTERSHIP OR EXPERIENCE REQUIRED. This assignment will be given by the 15th of JANUARY Job location is ATLANTA Compensation: hourly pay" |
Nothing crazy mind you. Just shoot and edit an entire wedding and burn DVDs for $200. Of course using it for your reel "shouldn't be a problem. serious people only."
hi, my sister is getting married in june, @ dantes in queens(very close to laguardia airport) and she needs a videographer. basically we need you to film her leaving the house, ceremony and reception. she needs the film edited, nothing crazy(no baby pictures or anything like that) just something simple and nice, to be put on dvd. if you think you can help us it would be greatly appreciated, please email me @ starrlett84@yahoo.com with the following, name, phone, experience, can you definatly put it on dvd, do you have a camcorder, how long will editing take, you will be compensated with meal and $200. also if you want to make a copy of the video for your reel it should'nt be a problem. serious people only. |
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Ooh! Ooh! I finally found one that I know is ridiculous; I've seen some questionable ones before (outrageous for working professionals with bills to pay, but still kind of acceptable for some people), but this is so amazing it's got to be a joke. Showed up on the LIFILM mailing list this morning.
"I am shooting a feature in New Jersey and am looking to use someone's film equipment. I'd rather 35 but will settle for a 16mm film camera with everything. I will also need a jib, dolly tracks, lighting equipment, sound equipment, etc by next weekend. No pay but great experience for your equipment. If I like using it maybe I will give you credit in the film. I may need it longer than the weekend because I have another film to shoot next month. Please reply ASAP. It will be really smart of you because I have contacts in the business... just not really sure where I dropped them... a little industry humor, but in all seriousness, let me use your equipment. You'll be glad you did." |
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I agree (with more emphasis on the grip work than the actual electrician work). Anyone else? |
Robert, that one is awesome.
- he'll settle for a free 16mm camera "with everything." - he'll need tens of thousands of dollars of equipment, by next weekend. - no pay - it will be really smart of you - even if he does like using your equipment for free, he may not give you credit! I assume it's a "he" because there are way more callous a-hole guys on the planet like this, than women. |
Blatent! DISGUSTING! Advertising firm wants you to work for FREE!
SHORT VIDEO WANTED Reply to: skinmilkvideo@gmail.com Date: 2006-01-03, 10:28AM EST Small advertising firm seeks creative 60 second (aprox) digital video about national skincare product, available at mass, for viral internet dissemination. NO compensation, but credit on product's national website will be given to winning video. For more information about content parameters & submission deadlines email skinmilkvideo@gmail.com ASAP. Perfect opportunity for students & young designers to add to resume! |
This just ticks me off
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
These scumbags should get what they deserve, I just hope that's a big fat nothing... |
How ridiculous can we get?! You get to pay $15,000 to direct their movie. It starts now and shooting begins in February . . . but there's no director and they still don't have the money together and this film has "huge potential." I can barely fathom the mental illness that would cause someone to work this way!
Director Wanted Now... Reply to: gigs-122470457@craigslist.org Date: 2006-01-04, 12:19AM EST Director Wanted Now... Independent "Napoleon Dynamite-esque" type film, with micro-budget, seeks capable and creative Director, for filming in Los Angeles. Please be capable of bringing $15,000 (or 10%). Director equity points involved. Project begins in early January and shoots in February. Film has huge potential. this is in or around NY/LA/USA no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests Compensation: tbd with producers. |
Clearly this is the same scam artist that wanted you to do their skincare product, I posted a few hours ago. Their scam didn't work so here's their new approach!
The commercial is now a "PSA" (do they know what a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT IS?). They get "high exposure" (translation possible profit) and you get . . . Video Needed for High-Exposure Web Project Reply to: gigs-122460072@craigslist.org Date: 2006-01-03, 11:10PM EST Looking for a simple, but comedic 60-second "PSA" video/web-short based on a concept currently in development. Unable to pay for your work at this time, but would be a great opportunity for someone who needs material for a portfolio. We expect high-exposure and you will be credited. You should be professional yet fun, as well as friendly and a great sense of humor. Please Send links to samples of your work, specifically videos/web-shorts. no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests Compensation: $0 |
Okay, I suppose I've lurked this thread long enough...
James, in reference to you earlier post about the "producer" who had the money. Same thing happened to me. I was halfway through assembling a crew for a project this "producer" was going to produce and direct, from a script I had written, and then he tells me he doesn't really have the money(short story version). I had been in touch with a lot of talented people whose help I could have used on other projects but just didn't have the guts to call them again. "Hey remember me, the guy who didn't deliver last time?..." And I have to admit that I, too, have been a victim of a scam. Not a scam as much as a lazy ad agency, as was referrenced before. A while back an ad agency for a well known sneaker company (unnamed because they seem to troll boards) was running a "film contest" and the winners would end up with national spots. Now I will say that some spots were made, but when I called up to get information about what they were looking for the contact at the ad agency said she "didn't want to limit my creativity". Well after rushing through two quick projects, which were okay but not great, I really thought about all of this. Basically, this agency was hired to do an ad campaign, didn't want to expend the effort and just said "hey, make a commercial for us, and if we like it, we'll buy it". All told I was out very little money and about two weekends worth of work, so it wasn't devastating. It sure was a waste of time though... |
I don't know if this is a 5 or 7 day week but either way it is truly ridiculous. They are also not clear if that rate is just for the gear or for labor and gear. I'm betting it's the whole package.
".....looking for a Cameraman who own a PD-150 or PD-170. Compensation is $450.00 dollars for a one week rental." |
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