Photography assistant / property manager wanted
 

Heh this is great. The only thing missing is "dog walker".

http://vancouver.craigslist.org/tfr/150633759.html

Is it even physically possible for one person to do all that? The photography thing alone would probably obliterate all your time, wouldn't it?

Here ya go. I've worked for this person/company in the past, too:

The Independent Movie Show is seeking a female and a male field reporter to do on-camera interviews with local and national film industry icons and up-and-coming filmmakers for its television program. Pay is very low, but this will be great for your resume and demo reel. You must be available for one full shoot day every other month and commit to a one year term. First shoot is June 10-11, 2006 with a rehearsal day in Mid-May. Seeking male and female, any ethnicity, 25-40, polished, knows the industry lingo, prior on-camera experience and good communication skills a must. Headshots, demo tale-VHS, DVD or mini-DV and resumes must be mailed NOT EMAILED to:The Independent Movie Show, Dominion Films, P.O. Box 22582, Houston, TX 77227

And another--apparently these guys are looking for a cameraman from the future:

XL-3 Shooter Needed this Sun, Mon, Tues & Wed
Reply to: gigs-151073495@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-04-14, 1:19AM EDT


Need XL-3 Shooter for 2 TV pilots shooting in/around Manhattan this weekend. We're in a bind, as our regular guy's leaving the country & our schedule got pushed back.

Thanks!

* this is in or around NYC
* no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
* Compensation: $250/day

What's an XL3?

I don't know. . .ask the time travelers who posted the ad.

I like to imagine this as read by a clunky robot from the 50s. Maybe the giant robot rabbit from Aqua Teen Hunger force:


IN NEED OF CAMERAMEN WITH EQUIPMENTS!!!!!!!!
Reply to: creatorspalacein_mode@yahoo.com
Date: 2006-04-20, 12:02AM EDT


WE need Cameramen with equipmentS FOR OUR UPCOMING MODELS SHOW + POP ROCK AND R&B VIDEOS,THAT WILL LAST FOR 2 MONTHS AND WILL BE REPEATED ANNUALLY,THERE 'S NO PAY BUT WE WILL SIGN A CONTRACT THAT WHEN EVER THE MUSIC VIDEOS IS OUT YOU WILL GET MONEY EVERYTIME IT'S BEING PLAYED ON TV PLUS SALES ,THERE WILL BE 30 MODELS AND 30 SINGERS AND YOU WILL GET MONEY FROM EACH VIDEO FROM THE ARTIST THIS IS FOR LIFE,

AND WE WILL STICK TO YOU AND ALWAYS WORK WITH YOUAND ADVERTISE YOU.

THIS SHOW WILL START FROM THE 23RD OF MAY - 28TH OF JULY 2006 IN VEGAS


PLEASE CONTACT US AT ( difacemode@yahoo.com ) FOR MORE INFO and PLEASE SAY CAMERAMEN!!!!!!!

All I have to ask is....how? Are they going to give you a piece of the publishing? That would be the stupidest thing (for them) ever lol.

I don't know. I just found the "written by a seven-year-old" vibe amusing, as well as the shouting.

OK, that one is about the most ridiculous one in awhile. 'we need you for 2 months, and your equipment too at no fee'. Maybe it was written by drunken lemurs?

I'll give you drunken, but I still say it was drunken robot rabbits prone to saying "Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday" (and then repeat ad infinitum).

Posted in the Vancouver craigslist. Maybe by one of us?

Keith- There are a whole bunch of postings along those lines on Craigslist down here too. I figured it was Josh...

Hah! You are totally wrong. I've never written back to a post like that. One of you has definitely done that, in my opinion 'cause I found your (his/her) post on here to be the exact same thing posted in response to the ad on the NYC craigslist ad.

Keith? You got some 'splaining to do?

A rich kid is wanting me to develop his DV film idea, willing to pump money into a totally dead project. Wont accept the fact that I tell him I'm not a good director and I've had no experience in feature production. Sends me a script where the first shot is loaded with effects, the dialogue is dead, the characters suck, spelling mistakes everywhere, not even formatted properly. I ask him to at least format the script and the reply I get is "Too oldschool".

Can't take a hint.

Hey, what a coincidence! Except mine is 40ish man who tells me I'm a great DP but then won't take my advice half the time. Crazy world.

doing the job
 

Sometimes you're just moved to do the work. I've been blessed, I love the work and I'm making good money in Africa. There are alot of good causes here and though it would be impossible to even consider some of the requests to make a project for free, I get to give back and produce a good story. It does usually involve beginning to end. I have been taken in by one opportunist, but it didn't stop me from getting involved with other non or small paying jobs. My point, I work for the art, the fun and satifaction; when you achieve the art (ability) you get payed, at times very well paid. I am at a place where I can also contribute to things I like to do. I only recently joined this forum and have immediately attained a lot of appreciation for the connection. I am a fair distance from being able to participate in our industry and don't miss some of the idiocy you guys have to mull through. Originally from Texas circa 2002.

Rand

Yes, I know, we're all very crass here. Perhaps someone'll be moved to take on this, then:

"Digiral Film maker : must be trained college age girl

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: talent@3iying.com
Date: 2006-04-23, 7:54AM EDT



hi.

Join a team of girls who are making history in media. www.3iying.com
we are looking for our digital film team made

you will help script commercials, then shoot, edit them in final cut

they will go to some of the largest companies in the world
the target of all our films is the girl market.

summer gig to start.


no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests"


I imagine this as having been written by two thirteen year old girls.

And daddy found another:

Freelance Cameraman

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: president@allinbroadcasting.com
Date: 2006-04-22, 10:01PM CDT


All in Broadcasting is looking for Cameraman to video amateur sporting events. Cameraman will have to have a regular commercial or consumer camera and record to Hi8 or Mini DV format. We will pay $40 per event that is assigned plus we will provide necessary blank tapes and mailing cost. We also will pay $20 per event for travel and admission fees an event. Email president@allinbroadcasting.com only if you are interested.


Compensation: $40 per event

no -- Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.

no -- Please, no phone calls about this job!

no -- Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

no -- Reposting this message elsewhere is NOT OK.

Josh have you looked at
www.3iying.com
website?

They seem to be of some note with significant business trade press. They're appeal is to 15 year old girls though. It would make sense that they want to attract college age girls (18-21) who can think and understand what a 15 wants to buy and why.

That's different then, isn't it? I guess in my eagerness to win the trip to Hawaii, I've been to quick to post every now and then.

How BAD can it get?!
 

Is this really a sign of the hourly rates businesses can get away with?! Take a look at this very legit MAJOR Non Profit which includes NY Board Of Education Chancellor on its Board of Directors.
http://www.nycchartercenter.org/
and this
http://www.nycenet.edu/OurSchools/Re...on/default.htm
$15-$25 Depending on Experience and of course Camera, tripod, mics, light kit must be supplied by you!!!!!!!
This ain't no fly-by-night craigslist poster


Videographer Opt. Available (p/t) for project in Charter Schools

Reply to: gigs-154065268@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-04-24, 11:25AM EDT


Videographer Opt. Available (p/t) for project in Charter Schools - Must have own equipment.

New York City Center for Charter School Excellence

Looking for an experienced Videographer who has own equipment with Tripod, Mic, Lights, Access to Editing facility, etc. Documentary film experience highly desireable.

Project is to produce a training video that documents Best Practices in Charter Schools in New York City. Seeking immediate start, with editing and post-production concluding in May. p/t, based on filming schedule.

Please contact via email and provide a resume, video clip, or web site that will give us a better idea about you and your skills. We need someone professional, responsible, and comfortable with young people. Compensation is $15-$25/hr, based on experience.

The mission of the New York City Center for Charter School Excellence is to stimulate the supply of high quality charter schools and support ongoing student excellence in all NYC charter schools, impacting the effectiveness of public education. As an independent nonprofit, the Charter Center is an advocate, bridge and catalyst for the achievement of academic and operational success and sustainability of all NYC charter schools for each young person.

no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $15-$25/hr, based on experience

Yeah, I saw that. Didn't post, though. How much would you charge an hour? If you were the kinda guy that charged hourly?

At least they're paying $25 an hour!

Here's one from today offering $25 (total!) to SHOOT AND EDIT a 3 minute segment using, of course, your own equipment:






Reply to: jannscottlive@hotmail.com
Date: 2006-04-24, 12:46PM MDT


Digital video editor for local magazine TV show series on CET-5, Boulder 54, and www.BoulderChannel.com. Editing 3 minute packages and effects in a timely fashion. Must have own equipment and the ability to record images to tape or DVD. Some web design skills, camera shooting and network TV experience preferred. Some driving may be required.

We are looking for nice upbeat professionals who understand the 18-34 year old market.

Part-time.
$25 per 3 minute segment.

Summer internships available, no pay, great for resume.

Please call 303-447-8531 and also email resume and work examples to jannscottlive@hotmail.com.

* Job location is Boulder/Denver
* Compensation: $25 per 3 minute segment
* This is a part-time job.

And they want you to update their website too, and probably their client's as well.

Ha! I missed that!

Josh, I'm not shy about discussing rates. I respond to posts like that. I told them I could do $62.50/hr with light kit (normally higher) and might be able to cut corners if it's a large project or "bulk" contract. AND MY RATES ARE LOW!Once you need to bring a light kit you need to use a car and then there's the cost of parking (expensive in NYC) and long commute time to shoots. I do "starving artist" demo reels for more per hour then they offer.

Patrick, it's another case of a public access producer claiming they're "TV." Boulder 54 is Community TV. If such producers didn't make their shows appear to be "commercial" entities instead of public access they wouldn't look so stupid.
http://www.commtv.org/
http://www.btv54.com/

--it was councilmember Robin Bohannan’s motion to place the station’s video equipment – owned by the City – into storage for two years that almost won the evening. Council determined that this would give a self-funded group an opportunity to step forward. One did! Happy ending (for now ...)--

Man, I'm sorry. I keep forgetting about NYC. Every time I get into a "discussion" with your or Emory, I forget that not everywhere is as cheap as Houston (by a long shot) in terms of standard of living. If I lived in NYC, I damn sure wouldn't even own a car.

Try carrying Camera, Tripod, light kit on subway? Try taking subway at 2AM with lots of gear? Try taking public transportation to a shoot in the suburbs where location is not near public transportation.

I can do camera and tripod on subway, bus, cab but once you add even a small lowel 3pt light kit it's not easy.

Once they ask for light kit it means car AND an assistant (to deal with parking, etc). Given the travel and hassle, that's why even those (oh the shoot's only an hour) is a half day booking. It's a half day of my time whether the shoot is one hour or three hours.

The only exceptions are when I can shoot within walking distance from home/office . . . often that's for grabbing a shot for an edit in progress.

That's why the $15-$25 is OUTRAGEOUS especially for low budget PROFESSIONAL Not-For-Profit.

Transit workers, sanitation workers, teachers get paid as much or more and they DON'T have to own/rent $15,000 worth of gear . . . for a simple DV/DVCAM set up AND they get healthcare and pension benefits!

I think the fundemental problem we're faced with in this industry is that you can actually get SIGNIFICANT TALENT for $15-$25/hr!!!! and it hurts the entire industry . . . which is why corporate clients get away with offering such low rates.

Take a student with 2-4 years of school training in Shooting, Editing, Motion Graphics. Those are real tangible, marketable skills. While they may not have "professional" experience they may have skills and talents readily visible on their demo reels.

Out of College they may still be living at home, using the computer mom/pop bought them for school, software bought at Education prices. They buy an HDV camera on their new credit card and pay it off at $50/month as their only real life expense. At $15/hr for 40/hr a week, they're making $2400 a month, can even slip their now proud mom/pop $200-$300 a month for living at home. After 6 months/1 year they have a resume that includes corporate clients and more stuff for their demo reels. They might have $10,000 in the bank at the end of the year and can risk moving out and buying more gear.

They then discover they quickly can't live on $25/hr on their own. They raise their rates and maybe get replaced by the next young gun. In another year, they're hit with computer and software upgrades expenses. They end up trying to rent their camera at $50 a day or sell it on Ebay as they try to get a paying "job." They may go out of business but the "clients" know there's an unending stream of replacable $15/hr talent coming out of the schools.

A major employer just has to post on craigslist to find one skilled and talented kid in ten responses to pay $15/hr with no benefits at all and keep doing that as each generation is replaced by the next.

Only those potential clients that want to see real world experience (you can actually get "talented" people without that) and maybe expect you to use higher end equipment (and that gear is really not needed for many projects). . . expect and are willing to pay more for the intangibles that come with experience (speed and the ability to trouble shoot/problem solve)

Some of us kid ourselves saying the low ballers are getting poor quality for their $15/hr jobs or $200 projects but that's NOT the case in many situations.

Sorry for the bleak picture but this is what 25 years in the biz has tought me. The good news is that SOME clients really do appreciate experience.

It's NOT the cheap gear that's hurting the industry at all. It's the cheap but good quality talent willing to work at unlivable low wages for an adult.

Some of the Ridiculous Job Offers are from dreamers but many are from "smart" business people who get exactly what they're looking for.

So, then, we have to stop saying "you get what you pay for," and just start staying "you're an asshole. Hope you're proud of yourself."

Right on Josh!

We have this looong thread as proof. Hey if it were just the dreamers saying "wana make my hit movie" or my "tv pilot" (for public access) it really wouldn't be a big deal. We've seen a good sampling of posts on this list that it's businesses, tv/cable stations, production companies looking for (and probably finding) quality cheap labor (often WITH YOUR GEAR INCLUDED).

How do we increase the base wages? Maybe that's for another thread but I wonder how many of us on this thread would jump to that one.

BTW, I've certainly seen articles about this is various video trade publications (DV Magazine for example) in the last couple of years. It's a known issue. Talent underpricing. Their conclusion always seems to be "don't do it" but that doesn't work since as long as even one in ten accept the low wages that's what the clients will try for (and get).

I'd phrase the issue as "cost plus." If people simply charged for the fair market value for a day's use of their gear then whether a newbie who charges $15/hr for labor vs the experienced person for $100/hr would be more realistic.

Example. Newbie charges client going rate for use of their Sony PD-150 (Panasonic DVX-100 or Avid DV Express or Final Cut Pro plus computer) and then tacked on their rate. Shooting with a PD-150 for a day might be equal to a $200 rental (varies by market of course - don't forget mic and tripod and light kit are extra) which is $25/hr. Then a newbies base rate is a more realistic $40/hr ($15/hr labor). . . . You want me to work on your "dream" for free. Sure I work for free but my camera will cost you $200 for day (since I pay the credit card bill and need to maintain the thing now and then as well as insure it).

If people charged for the gear ALWAYS, the base rate would jump. Alas, newbies don't think that way. It's called business sense.

Well, I know I have no business sense. That gene got left out, went to my dad.

But I do have a friend who's way undercharging (up 'til recently) for his services. Granted, his gear's a little older (Panasonic AGDVC10, I think), but still basically the same as any 3 chip SD miniDV cam. Some people simply don't know what to charge, specially the young'uns. It's not even desperation; they literally don't know to ask for X amount for the cam, plus whatever for their services.

$300 to shoot and edit a 3 minute infomercial AND they even entertain the possibility that thye can get a SMALL GROUP (Crew) for that price! Mind you, NOT a student film but MARKETING MATERIAL FOR A BUSINESS.

restuarant infomercial - 3 mins long


Reply to: gigs-154514823@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-04-25, 2:53PM EDT


We are looking for an individual or small group to shoot and edit a 3 minute infomercial for one of new york's finest restaurants. Segment will be shot on location and will play on restaurant's website.

Please send examples of past work.

this is in or around manhattan
no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $300

Figuring out a basic rate is simple.
Add ALL your living expenses (rent, food, utilities, etc) and business expenses (gear, software, consumables, etc) and calculate what you need to cover it all in a month. Assume you'll only be able to work 20-25 paid hours a week and the rest of the time will be unpaid business work (talking to clients, taking care of paper work).

Now you need to know what you need to BREAK EVEN.

As per my above post, base rate should not be less then what it would cost to rent gear (camera and/or edit system) per day (or hour). These are BASE rates a newbie needs to charge to break even. Chare more as you can experience and want to make profit, invest in business, go to movies, take a vacation.

If base rental rate is $200 for camera or edit system, you're looking at $25/hr. That might be about $600 a week for 24 billable hours. That might be enough to cover rent and food in NYC and nothing for gear or a junker car and insurance if you need to drive to a shoot.

The above ain't rocket science. We're not talking investment banking. If you can read a manual for a Sony camera than you can figure out how much you need to pay your bills every month.

I'm lousy at business too. Sales and marketing aren't my strengths. Basic math skill aren't that bad so I do know what I need to charge. I do envy those who can put together great websites but have crappy video skills.

Maybe I should write "The Idiot's Guide on how to break even in the video business while you try to figure out how to actually make money in it." See, I can't even write a good title with a hook.

Hahaha! It looks like this guy doesn't have a clue if anything is going to actually happen, but it's possible! He's so far ahead, he has to catch up with himself. I love the percentage of a percentage of pay but he forgot to preclude it with possible profits! LMAO!!

"Crew needed for low-budget Indie flick:

-Sound
-Camera people
-Lighting
-Weaponry
-Editor

Filming will be June 5-13 (10-5pm); May 26 (4-7pm). Locations: Athens, GA, possible Byron, GA, possible Winterville, GA


this is in or around Athens/Byron GA

Compensation: 1-3% of 50% of profits

Again, I ask why people schedule shoot dates when they have no crew committed. I mean, on these no pay/low pay things.

Does that technically make this an investment offering...and therefore illegal? Or is it different when its profit sharing?

ASAIK, any public investment offering requires issuance of a formal prospectus which has numerous regulations regarding disclosure and accounting standards. It's one thing to ask your buddy to go in with you on a project, quite another to solicit inverstment from the general public.

Follow up on Charter School job $15-$25/hr
 

I sent them my hourly rate for shooting and editing the job.

I got back an email saying that due to the overwhelming response they're asking for a flat rate bid. They also included an attachment which mentions shooting in five schools for about 10-15 hours of shoot time expecting about 4-5 hours of video. It would be broken down into two or three 10-20 minute segments. Shooting starts May 1 and delivery is May 17.

My sense is that these are well meaning folks who have never done anything like this before. They either didn't find anyone of noteworthy skills at $15-$25/hr or got professionals like me responding with realistic rates.

They're concerned about budget so rather than offer an unrealistically low hourly rate, they're trying to figure out how much something like this should cost.

Another clue is that in the email response they said they're taking experience into account, not just the size of the bid.

This seems to concur with my thoughts above about the response they got. I think they really want someone experienced enough to pull this together with them.

The start date certainly doesn't leave much room to select someone and have the kind of preproduction meeting they need, which may be extensive given the missing details.

I may still be priced to high for them though.

Keep in mind that not all ridiculous job offers are dreamers or rip off artists. Some simply don't know what things should cost. If you send a courteous response and explain your pricing and what you're offering they might just appreciate your experience.

Just as there are newbies shooter/editors who don't know how to price themselves, there are newbie clients who honestly don't know what a fair price is. I can just imagine a bunch of school administrators thinking that $15-$25/hr is $600-$1000 a week ($30,000-$50,000 a year) and that sounded like a fair offering price.

They didn't take into account one might have to have paid $15,000 for gear (and car too?), pay for maintenance and consumables and replace much of that gear in two years time plus the many unpaid hours responding to ads like their's in order to get the work. I politely mentioned this stuff in my initial response explaining my rate.

In my follow up I mentioned the importance of a pre production meeting, listed a bunch of things they probably haven't thought of. Listed some of the steps such as window dubs of the camera masters and time for revisions on the edit. It was my gentle way of commenting on their schedule and at the same time shows my experience and ability to think this through more thoroughly then they may have.

This is my standard procedure when I see ads like this. While you won't get rich from craigslist (or mandys, etc), my response fails more often than it works but I have made thousands of additional dollars this way.