Rob,

Thank you very much. I have made a widescreen mov file now but the only problem is that the size is DOUBLE what the orignal AVI was. The original AVI is only 500MB but the MOV file is over 1 GB !

I have the quality setting in the render tab set to 50% so I have no idea why the file size actually increases when I render to a mov.

Any ideas?

The difference in price is obvioius, but beyond that what kind of performance can I expect from Procoder Express? Will it produce top qualtity MPEG2 files similar to it's big brother or is this simply a super watered down consumer version? I am only interested in encoding for DVD, will express suffice or do I need to sink the 500 bucks to buy the real thing?

I wonder if anyone is using Vegas for cartoon animations?

If so, would it be possible to post links to your work so I can see what is achievable? Also, I'd welcome any guidance on what other tools you use in conjunction with Vegas to produce cartoons.

I've been asked to produce some short, simple animated sequences. I know Vegas is not the ideal tool but it's a) all I have, b) what I know best and c) all I can afford! Of course I have various graphics apps, but not anything like After Effects so I'm stuck with making the most of what I have.

Any experiences to share?

Ian . . .

There's an article in one of my newsletters that talks about turning video into something that looks like an animation.

Have you tried .wmv format? I haven't had the greatest of results with .wmv directly rendered in Vegas (could be pilot error) but when I frameserve out to Procoder Express the resulting .wmv looks good and e-mails well and plays fine in WMP (or on the web).

I think 575 MB to 8 MB is going to be difficult with any format. That's over a 70:1 compression! Could you possibly just burn the AVI to a CD as a data disk and mail it to the recipient?

Good luck.

Dennis

I thought the same but I recently got a 311MB file down to 3.3MB with .wmv (at 160x120). Of course if Adi wants to keep his original video full-size then your suggestion would indeed be a better way to go.

What bit rate did it turn out to be and what did it look like?

Good luck.

Dennis

Usually I do around 232 but this one was actually 116. With regard to how it looked, the client was extremely happy with it as they'd previously had someone else do it for them and weren't happy with the quality. It was a real balancing act between the various WM9 parameters, though.

As I mentioned, when I did it in Vegas it looked as bad as I'd imagined it would but for some reason in Procoder it worked and looked way better. I also did a Quicktime for them but I wasn't able to get it below 4MB and still have satisfactory quality.

Tony

theyre exactly the same apart from Quicktime and WMV delivery

QuickTime like AVI are container formats. You need to select a
codec (the right one) to compress your footage with. Sounds like
you selected a not so good codec. Best one to work with is the
Sorenson codec or MPEG4. Also if filesize is important I would
definitely lower the resolution by 50% and perhaps the framerate
to 15 fps etc.

Do some experimenation with bitrates and whatnot (after you
set the correct codec!)

So the quality of an MPEG2 for DVD authoring would be the same as one created with Procoder 2.0? This seems too good to be true.

Hi all,


Anybody knows a good forum on Boris Red. Boris's conference type of forum is pretty much cr*p :)


Thanks

Phil

This was edited in vegas (special effects in After Effects though...) http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38978

What is the difference between wmv and wma files? Why would I use one over the other?

Okay forget it, found the answer:

.wmv - windows media video, competes with quicktime
.wma - windows media audio, competes with .mp3

.wmv is a video file, whereas .wma is an audio file.

EDIT : and thus the problems of posting at the same time, are discovered! ;-D

thanks for your reply anyway

yes its identical as it uses the same codec.
Its the codec that gives it that quality..

the canopus codec IS a little softer, but it does offer a nicer rounded contour.. hard to describe, but colour accuracy is a lil more pronounced.

Canopus have a hardware device which connects through USB and encodes mpg1 and mpg2 in realtime. Saves alot of time and does a nice job
http://www.canopus-aust.com/AU/products/MPEGPRO_EMR/pm_MPEGPRO_EMR.asp


The main concept codec is also a very good one (standard with vegas) i also find that its alot faster than procoder. the results arent all that noticable until you get to the lower end of the bandwidth, which by that time Procoder beats it quite easily.
I wouldnt encode anyhin less than 4200CBR anyway..

im still curious as to why people use boris..

i mean i bought boris red for 3grand hre in aus as a standalone, and i cant see what it can do that Vegas and a myriad of other apps can do...

I mean Bluff Titler, is easier and faster to use as a titler.. as is titlemotin pro... Vegas does excellent keying as does Edius Pro3, Particle Illusion does awsome particle effects, Xara 3d, also does some really nice static titles, Spicemaster does some really awesome displacements and filters, After effects.. well its after effects, what more needs to be said?

Combined, theyre alot easier to use, faster to render, and its a hellofalot cheaper..

one reason i didnt like Boris was the interface.. i couldnt flow with it for some reason.. could be me.. but for everything i do, Boris was just a waste of money.. :( Lucky that i found a buyer for it, but Im still to see something boris can do that any of the mentioned apps ive listed cant.. could be me.. i might be blind..

Hi Peter.


Yeah the interface is a bit clunky but so far just by doing the tutorials I found the program to surpass Vegas when it comes to create dazzling titles.

Mind you I had it cheap.... well free. One of my buddy switched career and was doing computer designs and happen to have a copy. He just gave it to me so my expectations weren't as high as yours.

Reading threads and reviews I quickly realise that there are a lot of programs out there who do exactly the same things ,you just pick one blindly and chances are you will end up being able to accomplish the same things with the same results. It boils down to personnal choices and preferences I guess.

Phil

thanks for the replies.

my first attempt was to create an mpeg. i managed to get it down to the desired size, but then my client replied emailing me a wmv file of about the same duration (2:40 minutes). he was saying that he doesn't understand why the wmv file he sent me, being about the same length and size, looks and sounds better. i took a look and told him that he's absolutely right and that i'll make him a new and better compressed file.

so is wmv the way to go? and Tony, if i understand what you're saying, i shouldn't be creating the compressed file in vegas. right? i just take the .avi PAL DV file (575MB) made in vegas and then use other software (procoder, quicktime?) to bring it down to 7-8 MB?

(i might need a little help later with the settings and parameters)

adi

It's not necessarily the case that you can't get equally good results in Vegas. I was in a hurry and just found that the default settings in Vegas didn't produce as good a result as those in Procoder so I used the Procoder settings as my base to juggle its parameters until I got what I wanted.

Given a bit more time it's entirely possible that similar results could be produced in the Vegas .wmv implementation. You might try that first since it would save you an extra rendering step or a frameserving step and the purchase of additional software.

Tony

there are a lot of major (to me) diff between the two...

the major difference is pce (procoder express) does not have master quality encoding option, which to me is the only reason to use procoder

pce also has no way of saving settings for future encodes, like changing frame rates, combining avi and mpeg encodes n so forth

pro coder also has a lot of little things that add to its value, best place to get a clear concise list is call canopus or visit their forum...

So i'm going to make a tape dub and wanted to know if Vegas is the best way to do that ? I have 2 Dv cameras and wondered if that was the easiest?

If i use 2 Dv's, what are the steps neccesary to make it record?



Thanks for the input

>Connect the cams via firewire.

>Put both into VTR mode.

>Press play on the source.

>Press record on the other.

Gary

As Gary said, bypass the computer altogether. You don't NEED to go through the computer when the cameras can talk to each other just fine.

thanks;

its nice when technology is easy and simple to use.

Hopefully DVD architect will be there soon!

>Hopefully DVD architect will be there soon!<

Be where?

Gary

Vol 2 Issue 9 (Oct 04) for anyone else that's interested.

Thanks Edward. It's not exactly what I'm after but I can think of a few other uses for that technique.

Actually, what I'm doing is more like using "digital puppets" for a kind of hybrid stop motion/cut out animation. Each character is sliced up (in Photoshop) into limbs, torso, head etc then the various parts are moved around and keyframed in Vegas to give the appearance of fluid motion.

As I mentioned before, I know there are more appropriate packages for animation (After Effects, even Flash is now widely used) but Vegas is all I got! I'm having some good success with my trials but at the moment the majority of the pre-production effort is going into the artwork.

Thanks again for your great newsletters.

adi, microsoft offers free downloads of their wmv encoder, if you want to take a look at some other alternatives... i think that they should all be pretty similar, tho, if you use the same encoder settings... one thing to look for is two-pass encoding, it makes a big difference, also use vbr to save a bit on the file size.

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher Lefchik : I've done some testing, and here are the results.

Video exported directly from Vegas (in my case I used the Vegas 5 trial) can be streamed fine via http. There is a caveat, however. The video will start streaming okay if launched from Internet Explorer 6, but surfers like me who use an alternative browser will not get the video streamed if the wmv format is not included in the mime settings on the server.

Mime settings let a browser know how to handle file types. In the case of a wmv file the server would let the browser know that the video should be passed off to Windows Media player, thus avoiding downloading the file. Windows Media player would then take care of streaming the file itself.

A wvx file is not needed.

The mime settings for different web servers are at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/mime.asp.

If your web host allows you to configure an .htaccess file you can add the wmv extension yourself. Otherwise you will have to ask them to configure it for you. -->>>

I also did some testing and I'm not getting the same results. Files encoded with Microsoft's Windows Media Encoder using the "Progressive Download" profile, streamload (as I call it) properly, with or without the MIME settings on the server. Files encoded using the Vegas plugin do not, with or without the additional MIME settings (I tried it both ways). I haven't had a chance to try wvx yet, but that's next.

Can Vegas do pixel tracking or corner pin?

Cmon guys ,this is not constructive , I am kindly asking to be redirected to any online help for boris Red.

Start your own thread if you can't supply any info

Thanks for understanding

I dont get it.I'm trying to be constructive as I think the pixel tracker in Boris yields good results and someone might know if Vegas can do this.
If you prefer not to discuss Boris's advantages or the possibility that Vegas could do what you want and all your looking for is a forum dedicated for Boris ,I don't know of any.

HI Jack ,


Sorry I am still new in Boris and didn't know of any pixel tracking tool.

Actually yes , the question was only to find out if anybody knows a good forum for Boris.

Since it looks like you know your way around I will ask you here.

Whenever I try to drop a text effect in Boris the text appear sheared , stretch out like. There is a sheared effect in Vegas when you insert text media.

So the text never appear just....normal

Sorry and thanks :)

<<<-- Originally posted by Jack Smith : Can Vegas do pixel tracking or corner pin? -->>>

No it can not (unless you manually do it on each frame). Boris is an extremely powerful addition to Vegas but does have a pretty steep learning curve.

I know Class On Demand has a DVD related to Boris. I'm sure there are probably some other training DVD sets around and probably some books. I'm just not familiar with the training aids available.

If you want to contact me I can send your contact info to my contact at Boris and see if they can provide additional info.

Hi ,


Well that is mighty generous of you Ed but thanks. Actually the learning curve is quite OK by me so far. Indeed it looks very powerful.

My "bug" is below , that is the only thing so far (and i've already spent a few days on it and so far I am more than OK) that bugs me and I posted it in this thread.

Thanks for your time

Phil

i am editing a and creating the soundtrack for a short animation piece (9 minutes) on vegas 5.

the animatior gave me an avi file of the animation, compressed with Dvix on a cd. i of course, copied the avi file to my pc and imported it to the vegas project.

when viewing the animation track on the vegas timeline i noticed that there were 3 instances when the video strangely just went black for a few seconds. i checked the timeline and saw that there are three blacked out portions in the video.

i tried playing the avi file on 2 different media players and with both there were no blacked out sections as seen on vegas.

i tried closing vegas, creating a new project and importing the avi file again from scratch. the blacked out portions were still there and in the exact same places as before.

i asked the animator to render the animation again and make me a new cd. he did this, i loaded the new avi file and the blacks were still there. dispair.

what is happening? how is this possible? i must have a clean video track to work with.

by the way, the animator rendered the animation into an avi file using vegas 5.

Get www.virtualdub.org, load the media and set both the
video and audio to full processing mode. Then save a new avi
(this will be uncompressed and thus large!!!) and load this into
Vegas. Hopefully that should fix your problem.

I just noticed something bad ! This problem degraded my footage on a project before I noticed it.

I have a DV 30p project . I got DV footage shot in 30p. It looks great in my preview.

Then I render the project with AVI template "DV NTSC". This render will be used later in another 30p project. When I import that rendered clip back into Vegas using a 30p project, the quality is much less then the original 30p DV footage !!

I looked at the settings of the DV NTSC template to render and noticed the mode was set to lower field first. So I saved the original footage again as DV NTSV and this time I set it to progressive. I also saved a new custom template called "DV NTSC 30p" with that setting for future usage. The result was MUCH better ! The rendered footage looked exactly the same as the original footage.

The moral of the story. If you create a 30p DV project and want to render it out to the DV NTSC template. Make sure to change lower field to progressive or you'll get bad blurry quality. When using that rendered footage in another 30p project.

The reason I think it was blury is the following.

The project is 30p and tries to load a DV that it thinks is interlaced(created with the DV NTSC template), although each frame is clean progressive. What it then try to do is change interlaced into progressive ( although the actual data is already progressive ) using the blend fields option. That's why it becomes blury.

This is an easy thing to miss and that could cause quality degradation if you forget to set to progressive when rendering as AVI DV NTSC.

Frank

Actually it does it the other way around. It converts your progressive
footage in a form of interlaced footage. That is why it looks "worse"
than before.

You are totally correct that you should output as progressive. As
I have been saying tons of times here on the board, make sure
all your settings MATCH EXACTLY. That includes project settings,
footage properties and export settings!

Either that or have the original person send it to you in a decent format (i.e. DV-AVI).

Divx isn't officially supported in Vegas (although, for some reason, it seems lots of people want to use it).

thanks for the replies. edward, the only reason is size. being able to render the film so that it fits on a cd makes things much simpler. but maybe we just have to find some other method of being able to transfer the media from one to another. i didn't know vegas doesn't support Dvix. oh well.

<<<-- Originally posted by Adi Head : i didn't know vegas doesn't support Dvix. oh well. -->>>

doesn't "officially" support it. It can use any valid codec on your system, though.

I want my next project to be shot on Sony HDCAM (1080 24p) but I still want to stay with Vegas. The Decklink solutions look nice (and well priced) but will they work with Vegas?

On Monday, March 7th, we're holding a B&H/VASST open house/preview session for the "Now Hear This" training event being held at the New Yorker Hotel on the following day.
After the open house, the NYVUG will be holding their meeting. The meeting will be held in the New Yorker Hotel.

For any of you not in the NYC area that would like to attend the "Now Hear This" audio for video event, B&H is subsidizing the cost of the event so it's only $50.00 for a full day of audio for video training, presented by the VASST team. If you want more information on the agenda for the training day;

http://www.vasst.com/mailers/NHT_Agenda.htm will get you there.
Monday night 5:30-7:00- Free preview/social/training
Monday night 7:30-9:00- New York Vegas Users Group Meeting
2 special presents @ Vegas Users Group meeting.
a: HDV presentation w/new Sony Z1U camera, shooting, editing, delivering
b: Editing techniques, tools, plugins for Sony Vegas 5

$50.00 for the full day training.
Tuesday All Day 9:00-5:00
__________________

They are not totally integrated at this particular time, but you can ingest with the Decklink tools, and output via the Decklink tools while working in Vegas.

Spot,

Does this means you'd have to render your timeline to an uncompressed avi or quicktime and then export that via Decklink tools?

How does Vegas perform when working with 10bit uncompressed video files? (I think this is the highest quality SD setting for the blackmagic codec) Can Vegas still slice and dice like it does with DV footage, or does it lag a bit when working with such large files?

thanks
-jesse

Try this:


www.yousendit.com

If your uncompressed file doesn't go beoynd 1go you can upload it there and download it from there too .... this will cost you 0$

Pretty nifty site , use it while it lasts.

Phil

Thought some of you might be interested in some video tests I did using the auto-levels plug-in (http://www.vasst.com/training/Vegasplugs.htm).

Click here to see the results. (http://nopermissionfilms.com/projects/opturaxi/autolevel/)